Coughing/popping when revved

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/01/14 12:03 AM

Yes check the resistance with your multimeter on ohms (probably the K range). Clip the meter tips to the plug wire ends with some extra alligator clips so your hands are free so you can wiggle the plug wire ends as you watch the meter. if you disconnected the vac adv & set the gap at .008" then the reluctor gap ain't the problem. For the phasing turn the housing till a reluctor tooth is dead even with the magnet. set the rotor on the shaft. install the cap & make a mark on the top circumference of the metal housing just below where the cap sets plumb vertical from the center of the cap terminal "bulge" closest to the rotor. Take off the cap & see how far the rotor tip centerline is from your scribed mark. Then pump up the can & hold it & turn the housing till the tooth is back dead even with the magnet. See how far the rotor is now from your scribed mark & note that vac adv will shift rotor phasing CCW on a SB and CW on a BB. Not sure how much gap will suffice before the available voltage is less than the required voltage (varies with every ign setup) & also an excessive radial distance between the rotor tip and the the cap terminals aggravates this (NAPA Echlin MO3000 rotor with a .060" longer metal tip helps with this-$8 & change out the door or make your own longer one) but post what you get. You have the circumferential distance (phasing) & the radial distance & if the total distance of both is too much it will misfire (more so) under load when the required voltage is the greatest but it sounds like you ain't under alot of load at that time so.... Keep us updated

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/01/14 05:45 PM

It's not a flat camshaft. You'd notice that at idle. It's ignition.

With an inductive pickup timing light, the one where it clamps over the wire, check every wire up to the rpm range where it starts missing.
In other words, put the clamp on the #1 wire, pull the trigger and watch the flashes as you go through the rpm range where you get the miss. Do this for every cylinder.
You will probably find that one or two cylinders have gaps in the flashes as you get into the range where you notice misses.

When you have narrowed it down to two or however many cylinders, change the plugs in them and retest. If it still keeps happening, swap wires with known good and retest.

I believe that what you are seeing is the result of carbon tracking or a bad plug, and when the cylinder pressure reaches a certain amount, the resistance across the plug gap is more than the resistance through the carbon track or plug. Voila! Misfire happens.

Last year I changed the plugs and wires on my wife's 4-cylinder, using Autolite plugs and Beck-Arnley wires. After a few months the car would occasionally have a stumble at idle, just enough that you'd notice it. I couldn't figure it out.
I was out of town, so she took it to the local garage and the guy correctly diagnosed it as ignition problems. There was carbon tracking in the plug boots. I would have never expected that as I had used new brand-name parts specifically built for the engine in question. But, changing the wires and plugs solved the problem completely!

R.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 06:08 PM

SO, I knocked out a few things on my list this weekend. Not as much as I wanted, but here's what I did (in no particular order):

I double checked the grounds under the orange box- no change.

I swapped the orange box with a cheap parts store replacement- no change.

I currently have it timed at 20* initial and 35* total. I tried 10*, 15*, and 25* initial- no change

I put a timing light on each plug wire and brought up the rpms until it starting popping. I couldn't find the cylinder with an inconsistent flash. I even did this in the evening and couldn't find anything.

I ran the car at night to check for shorts along the plug wires. I actually saw one flash one time. It looked to come from either the 1 or 3 cylinder near the plug. This only happened once and I could not duplicate it, even though the popping persisted around 1,800 rpm.

I forgot I loaned out my multimeter, so I wasn't able to ohm the plug wires. I plan on borrowing one from my neighbor today or tomorrow to check those.

Still need to check rotor phasing as well.

Something I did notice was that sometimes when it pops, it'll start the starter spinning. And sometimes the starter will make a loud shreaking sound. Not sure what all that is about...

I was able to get a video of the popping. Hopefully this shows up. The quality is bad but you can hear the popping as I bring up the rpms.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:07 PM

You originally mentioned that when it popped the dome light would dim & I wonder if that is from the starter partly or wholly engageing at that point in time (which takes alot of current & will make a light dim). Could you take off the brown (sol) wire at the starter relay in case the relay is intermittently engaging the starter then jump it at the starter to start it & retry it & if it still does it then replace the starter to elim that issue. I'm bothered by the 1 spark you saw & was a helper loading the eng as you eyeballed things under the hood?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:07 PM

Try disconnecting the vacume advance and see if it will help. I had a BB with the vacume hooked up two weeks ago that would do that with the vacume advanced hook up

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:15 PM

Quote:

You originally mentioned that when it popped the dome light would dim & I wonder if that is from the starter partly or wholly engageing at that point in time (which takes alot of current & will make a light dim). Could you take off the brown (sol) wire at the starter relay in case the relay is intermittently engaging the starter then jump it at the starter to start it & retry it & if it still does it then replace the starter to elim that issue. I'm bothered by the 1 spark you saw & was a helper loading the eng as you eyeballed things under the hood?

The dome light does dim when it pops. I thought about disconnecting the relay. I'll add that to the list and see what happens.

When I saw the 1 spark, I was not loading the engine. I was by myself and the car was in park. I'll get my gf to give me a hand and we'll give that a try.

I also may try a different distributor, just to eliminate it... Or identify it as the problem.

Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:17 PM

Quote:

Try disconnecting the vacume advance and see if it will help. I had a BB with the vacume hooked up two weeks ago that would do that with the vacume advanced hook up

I was going to suggest something of this nature, but to check and make sure the vacuum advance was actually working, as I had a situation that drove me nuts for a while, the vacuum advance pin on the end of the arm popped out of the breaker plate...the engine would break up around the 1800 and up range, of course it's always the last thing on ya list of things to look for!

mike

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:18 PM

Quote:

Try disconnecting the vacume advance and see if it will help. I had a BB with the vacume hooked up two weeks ago that would do that with the vacume advanced hook up

Thanks for the input Cab. I've had the vacuum adv and PCV disconnected the whole time I've been trouble shooting this issue.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/03/14 07:25 PM

Quote:

When I saw the 1 spark, I was not loading the engine. I was by myself and the car was in park. I'll get my gf to give me a hand and we'll give that a try.

with you loading it if you hear a yelp come from under the hood then likely she has found (& can identify) the plug wire that is leaking voltage. Might be 2 problems, the starter and the plug wire/boot EDIT Do you have another coil laying around that you could sub in for a quick test? another dist also (phasing if it's phasing is different from the current one/pickup continuity issue)

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/04/14 05:24 PM

Quote:

Try the other pickup.

Posted By: HemiSportFury

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/04/14 06:23 PM

What would make the starter spin? Makes me think of a wiring issue or bad ignition switch.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/04/14 07:32 PM

Quote:

Try the other pickup.

I'm gonna replace the pickup tonight and check rotor phasing. I'll keep you guys updated.

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/04/14 10:04 PM

Go to ignition switch where it pugs into main harness check and see if you have swollen /green corroded red color roughly 10 gauge wire. I have had that happen on two old mopars over the years

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/04/14 10:41 PM

Quote:

Go to ignition switch where it pugs into main harness check and see if you have swollen /green corroded red color roughly 10 gauge wire. I have had that happen on two old mopars over the years

I'm sorry, but your post is a little difficult to understand. You're saying to look for a bad connection on the red wire plugging into the ignition switch connector at the dash?

When it happened to you, what kind of stuff was it doing? How was it acting?

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/05/14 06:07 PM

I may have wrong year here mine were all col mounted key and switch you have one in dash. Mine would sit and not start then fire right up missing and carrying on then stop as it began to heat up , then go right back to the missing and carb backfiring

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:47 AM

Well, I was able to mess around with it again tonight.

I checked the rotor phasing, and it was very good. The rotor lines up dead on with the cap terminal with the reluctor and pickup lined up.

I replaced the pickup with another one I had and it didn't solve the problem.

I found another coil and plan on swapping that out tomorrow. Not sure it'll solve anything though.

I also still need to check for a light show under load. Just need to wait til I have a helper.

I'm starting to wonder if it's something in the valve train. The popping just seems really loud to me. Not sure it'd be so inconsistent though...

I also still need to check the plug wires.

Any other ideas??? I'm pretty frustrated. It's almost cruising season.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 07:45 AM

It does sound consistant with excessive timing but 35 is a tried & true SB norm plus you disconnected the vac adv for an even more conservative total & no change. I wonder if a valve is leaking badly (not sure tho & it sure sounds like ign). there's some connection as to why the dome light (system voltage) dims when it pops. Stay on it

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 04:58 PM

Yea Rob, this whole thing is baffling me. I'm gonna pop the valve covers off this weekend and check out the valve train. Pretty sure the cam is fine though because the problem is so intermittent. Plus, I just changed the oil a few weeks ago and the oil looked fine. Either way, valve covers are coming off this weekend.

I'm still not understanding why the there is a voltage drop when it pops. Is this common??? I've never seen this before. Maybe it's a clue...

Anyone else have any ideas?

Posted By: 440farmer

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 05:08 PM

Check the cam
had a 383 dart and chased that popping just like you are doing
and had one lobe wiped
--Good luck

Posted By: skicker

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 05:17 PM

This reeks of something electrical to me. When I first read it I was thinking valvetrain but now I don't think so. If you can find another ignition switch and plug it in under the dash I would try it. Something about the voltage drop and dome light dimming has me thinking its either ignition or dash wiring related. Was there any dash cluster-switch wiring that looked a little hinky when you put it together? Someone here will know something. There is a ton of experience around.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:16 PM

Quote:

Check the cam
had a 383 dart and chased that popping just like you are doing
and had one lobe wiped
--Good luck

When that happened to you, was the popping intermittent? How did it idle? Was there a voltage drop when it 'popped?'

Thanks!

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:21 PM

Quote:

This reeks of something electrical to me. When I first read it I was thinking valvetrain but now I don't think so. If you can find another ignition switch and plug it in under the dash I would try it. Something about the voltage drop and dome light dimming has me thinking its either ignition or dash wiring related. Was there any dash cluster-switch wiring that looked a little hinky when you put it together? Someone here will know something. There is a ton of experience around.

I'm curious if the popping is caused by the voltage drop, or if the voltage drop is caused by the popping. I'm thinking maybe something is causing an intermittent voltage drop as i bring the rpms up, which is causing some ignition demons...

All the dash wiring looked fine when I was in there last year. I did replace the ammeter with a volt gauge. I've also done the ammeter bypass the have installed relays in the front headlights. I have a couple lose pins in the dash circuit board that I need to repair. But I was waiting until I fix this popping issue before I do that.

Thanks for the help. I appreciate the ideas. Keep em coming.

Posted By: jwilson 61

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:33 PM

Could it be a broken valve spring, The inner damper could be allowing the valve to close at low RPM but bring it up and it can no longer be controlled, I've seen it on a few chevy's like that

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:45 PM

Quote:

Could it be a broken valve spring, The inner damper could be allowing the valve to close at low RPM but bring it up and it can no longer be controlled, I've seen it on a few chevy's like that

I will check for that this weekend when I pop off the valve covers.

Would that cause a voltage drop?

Posted By: 440farmer

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 06:56 PM

The car would pop at 1/2 to WOT back through the carb
chased electrical for a while then took of the valve covers -ran out of things to try.

Posted By: General 68

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 07:01 PM

You have to address the voltage drop first. Visually check that the main- and starter studs on the starter relay for space between the wire terminals. They are close to each other so the terminals might actually jump a spark and engage the starter for a moment and pull down voltage.
If ok, run a jumper wire from battery + to ignition side of ballast resistor and disconnect the original wire from ballast. If this cures it you have limited the problem down to ignition switch and ignition wiring.

Still no go? Eliminate the starter relay by disconnecting the black(?) Starter solenoid wire from starter relay after starting the car. Test again.

Also check starter terminals for space between solenoid- and battery terminals. They might be close to touching eachother depending on how wires were mounted.

Please check this before you tear into the engine!

Let us hear what you find.

Lars

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/06/14 09:11 PM

Quote:

You have to address the voltage drop first. Visually check that the main- and starter studs on the starter relay for space between the wire terminals. They are close to each other so the terminals might actually jump a spark and engage the starter for a moment and pull down voltage.
If ok, run a jumper wire from battery + to ignition side of ballast resistor and disconnect the original wire from ballast. If this cures it you have limited the problem down to ignition switch and ignition wiring.

Still no go? Eliminate the starter relay by disconnecting the black(?) Starter solenoid wire from starter relay after starting the car. Test again.

Also check starter terminals for space between solenoid- and battery terminals. They might be close to touching eachother depending on how wires were mounted.

Please check this before you tear into the engine!

Let us hear what you find.

Lars

Thanks for the help, Lars. I'll certainly give those suggestions a try. How do I know which side of the ballast is the ignition side? Most of the wires are all taped up.

Posted By: General 68

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 12:19 AM

Ignition or 12v side of ballast resistor is the opposite side from the tab that is wired to coil +. Not sure for your car but the ignition wire is usually blue with white tracer. The wire runs between ballast and 'ign' on ignition switch.

Posted By: skicker

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 12:25 AM

Just thinking out loud here. Is there a chance the battery is low? The only reason I asked is mine has a one wire charging system on it that does not charge at idle. As soon as I rap the throttle I get an instant spike in the amp gauge. I didn't know if there was any way a voltage drop or spike might rob or add enough power from the ignition to create the pop? For chits and giggles I'd unhook the alternator and make sure it isn't in that part of the electrical system.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 05:10 PM

Got an update for you guys. I swapped out coils with another one I had just to eliminate that from the equation and it didn't help anything.

Next thing I did was disconnect the wire sending power from the starter relay to the starter. I hooked up a momentary switch directly from the battery to start it from under the hood. Once running, I brought up the RPMs and sure as $hit, it didn't pop!!!

After I figured that out, I hooked everything back up and packed some electrical tape in between the power and starter terminals on the relay thinking it could be shorting, but it didn't solve anything.

So at this point, I figure it's probably a bad relay, right??? Why would it be intermittently sending power to the starter when RPMs are raised?? Strange...

Either way, I'm stoked that I've isolated the issue and am excited to get it back on the road. Thanks for all the help guys.

Posted By: General 68

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 05:31 PM

Good find! Did you run a jumper from battery + to ballast too? If not, you have only isolated the problem to starter relay AND ignition switch/wiring. Run that jumper without disconnecting starter solenoid wire. If it pops it is the starter relay. I have seen worn ignition switches cause strange things also.
Please tell us what the exact problem is when you find it.
Lars

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 05:52 PM

Quote:

Good find! Did you run a jumper from battery + to ballast too? If not, you have only isolated the problem to starter relay AND ignition switch/wiring. Run that jumper without disconnecting starter solenoid wire. If it pops it is the starter relay. I have seen worn ignition switches cause strange things also.
Please tell us what the exact problem is when you find it.
Lars

Great point. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. I was just stoked to get it to run right last night. I'll run a jumper 12v to the ballast tonight and let you know what happens.

Posted By: Mopar Guy

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 08:39 PM

I dont whant to give you more headake but i realy hate the Mopar Performance orange boxes ! There have been alot of bad manufacured sold on the open market so if you know any one that have a old true box try to test that one insted if you can and i would realy recomend a old crome one if you can find one becas they are even better then the orange for the street. It may not be the resone for your misfire trubbel but even how it�s my experience and i have dropt over to the Revnator my self and have no complains on that product that alos have a revlimiter built in that i can change easy

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/07/14 09:31 PM

Quote:

I dont whant to give you more headake but i realy hate the Mopar Performance orange boxes ! There have been alot of bad manufacured sold on the open market so if you know any one that have a old true box try to test that one insted if you can and i would realy recomend a old crome one if you can find one becas they are even better then the orange for the street. It may not be the resone for your misfire trubbel but even how it�s my experience and i have dropt over to the Revnator my self and have no complains on that product that alos have a revlimiter built in that i can change easy

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I did try a different box to no avail last weekend. At some point, I'll probably switch ignition boxes, but for now I'm gonna go with what I've got so I can get this thing drivable. Thanks for the input though. I may end up going with a Revenator eventually myself.

Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/09/14 05:40 AM

I'd say the two wires at the starter are very close to touching. As you rev the engine it torques to the right pulling on the wiring harness causing the wire connectors to touch, engaging the starter, causing the voltage drop and the lights to dim. Make sure the wires at the starter are away from each other and the big wire is not touching the small post.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/10/14 03:52 PM

I pulled the yellow wire going from the ignition switch to the starter relay (at the relay) and it stopped the problem. I put a test light on the yellow wire terminal at the relay (with it disconnected) and it has power with the key in the run position. The test light only lights up in 'run' when the car was running. Weird??? Shouldn't this wire only have power with the key in the 'start' position? This is the one that energizes the relay when you start the car.

Another thing I noticed was the test light was dim with the car running but as I brought the RPMs up, it got brighter. Maybe this means as the RPMs come up, there is enough power to energize the relay causing the problem???

I traced this wire up to the firewall and it looks as though the previous owner tapped into it for the electronic ignition too.

Posted By: General 68

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/10/14 04:02 PM

Yes, that yellow wire is only hot when key is in 'start' position. I suggest that you remove all wires spliced to the yellow wire. Still a problem? Go on checking the igniton switch.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/10/14 07:42 PM

So, if I cut the 'start' side of the ballast that's tapped into the yellow starter wire, where should that be reconnected? Should I tap into the brown wire coming from the switch?

Posted By: General 68

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/10/14 08:13 PM

Correct. Brown wire bypasses ballast when starter is engaged. If the ballast bypass is tapped from the yellow starter wire this will create a connection between the 6-9 volts at ballast and your yellow starter wire. In your case it seems like you get enough juice to make the starter relay engage at 1800 rpm:-)
Go back to OEM wiring and problem should be solved (unless the reason for the former owner to rewire the bypass was a faulty ignition switch).
Lars

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/11/14 08:02 PM

Quote:

Correct. Brown wire bypasses ballast when starter is engaged. If the ballast bypass is tapped from the yellow starter wire this will create a connection between the 6-9 volts at ballast and your yellow starter wire. In your case it seems like you get enough juice to make the starter relay engage at 1800 rpm:-)
Go back to OEM wiring and problem should be solved (unless the reason for the former owner to rewire the bypass was a faulty ignition switch).
Lars

Thanks for the help. Pretty sure I've finally got this figured out. I did look at the directions for the mopar perf. electronic ignition though. Looks like they say to tap into the yellow starter wire to power the 'crank' side of the ignition... Weird!

Here's the diagram straight out of the instructions:

Posted By: HemiSportFury

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/11/14 09:05 PM

Have you checked your alternator output voltage as you rev the engine? Maybe your voltage regulator is bad and it's producing too much voltage and that's pulling the starter relay in.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/11/14 09:57 PM

Quote:

Have you checked your alternator output voltage as you rev the engine? Maybe your voltage regulator is bad and it's producing too much voltage and that's pulling the starter relay in.

Stupid question time... What's the easiest way to check alternator output and what should it be? I'm assuming I just check the voltage output on the battery lug of the alternator? Should it stay constant as ~14 volts as I bring the rpms up? Because I have noticed that as I bring the rpms up, my volt gauge shows the voltage going up as well. I thought that was somewhat normal.

I have a single field alt and have bypassed the ammeter if that matters. And my alternator charges directly to the starter relay.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/11/14 10:07 PM

I see what happened now. I've seen that diagram before & it has an error in that the yellow wire that goes from the ign sw to the starter relay should not be T ing & going to the ballast as seen in the pic. I'd assume the prior owner saw that & wired it up that way which that way erroneously when the voltage gets high enough it is going to trigger the starter relay to engage the starter which is what has been going on.

Posted By: HemiSportFury

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/11/14 10:25 PM

Yes, just check with a voltage meter. If it keeps going up as you rev the engine and not stabilize around 14 it is bad.

Sounds like you are getting close to solving the problem. Good tenacity for staying after it!

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 02:13 AM

Alright guys, I'm getting closer. Upon further wiring inspection, here is what I found...

The yellow wire for the electronic ignition (cranking side) is pulling power from the starter relay trigger wire, which is a no-no (despite what the instruction sheet says.) This should pull 12V from the brown wire from the ignition switch.

The blue wire for the 'run' side of the electronic ignition ballast is pulling power from the output side of the existing original ballast resistor.

This means while the car is running, the power to the coil is running through the original ballast AND the new ballast for the electronic ignition. This also means the 12v supply to the ECU is being passed through the original ballast as well supplying it with only partial voltage.

So here are a couple other questions. Which one of the following should I do?

A) Snip the two messed up wires and route them correctly (the yellow going to the brown ignition 'start' wire, and the blue going to the 12v 'in' side of the original ballast. Or,

B) Pull the original ballast and use the new one for both the charging circuit and the electronic ignition?? Is this even possible???

Do the charging circuit and electronic ignition circuit use the same ohm ballast resistors? Do they require their own ballasts??

Thanks guys. I'm in the home stretch. It's amazing that this thing even ran!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 02:46 AM

this is a 2 terminal "single" ballast that comes with the orange box MP kit correct? If not (4 terminal "dual" ballast) holler. You only need 1 ballast. post the pri ohms of the two you have along with the pri ohms of the coil you are using & I'll give my

on the best one to use. run the blue ign1 run wire (switched 12V) to the upstream "input" side of the ballast & T from right there to the "point" of the ECU which is the hot power in. connect the other "downstream" end of the ballast to the coil positive primary. Run the brown ign2 "crank" wire to the same "downstream" end of the ballast.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 03:13 AM

Quote:

this is a 2 terminal "single" ballast that comes with the orange box MP kit correct? If not (4 terminal "dual" ballast) holler. You only need 1 ballast. post the pri ohms of the two you have along with the pri ohms of the coil you are using & I'll give my on the best one to use. run the blue ign1 run wire (switched 12V) to the upstream "input" side of the ballast & T from right there to the "point" of the ECU which is the hot power in. connect the other "downstream" end of the ballast to the coil positive primary. Run the brown ign2 "crank" wire to the same "downstream" end of the ballast.

Yes, both of the ballasts I've got in my enginge compartment are the 2 terminal 'single' ballasts. One is the original ballast, which still has the VR and wires coming from the ign switch hooked to it. The other was the one installed with the electronic ignition. The new one was installed pulling 'run' power from the output side of the original ballast and pulling 'crank' power from the yellow starter trigger wire.

Both ballasts are the same.

I just snipped the yellow wire and temporarily tapped into the brown "start" wire. I also, ran a jumper 12V wire to the 'run' side of the new ballast.

After turning the key on, I've got 10.7V from the upstream sides of both ballasts and 7.8V on the downstream sides. This is with the engine off and key turned to "on," or "run."

I'm pretty sure this'll work. Just curious if I could nix one of the ballasts and use a single ballast for both the charging circuit and the electronic ignition. Or will it overload the ballast?

Here is a picture of the two ballasts. you can see one on the right and one by the ECU.

Not sure how to test the ohms of the ballasts or the coil, but the coil is just a regular Chrysler coil, nothing special..

[

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 03:22 AM

You only use 1 ballast. I'll assume the one on the dr side is the OE points ballast which the last high mileage one I checked was 1.6 ohms. The one with the orange box MP kit is a nominal 1.25 ohms. Either will work fine with your app but only use one & I'd wire it as I posted.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 03:34 AM

Quote:

You only use 1 ballast. I'll assume the one on the dr side is the OE points ballast which the last high mileage one I checked was 1.6 ohms. The one with the orange box MP kit is a nominal 1.25 ohms. Either will work fine with your app but only use one & I'd wire it as I posted.

Ok, thanks Robert! So, if I wire it the way you stated, can I just eliminate the original ballast on the DS and run the blue VR wire to the upstream 12V run side of the ballast on the pass side by the ECU? That means I'd have three wires going into the upstream terminal of the ballast- 1 for the ECU, one switched 12V, and one from the VR. The other side of the ballast would have the brown 'start wire' and the (+) coil wire. Does this sounds right?

Thanks again guys for all the help. I just fired this thing up temporarily and it fired right up. Just gotta clean up the wiring and eliminate one of the ballasts and I should be good to go.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 03:54 AM

That sounds right, just have the blue ign1 "run" wire coming out of the bulkhead going straight over to the triple T you mentioned on the upstream side of the pass ballast rather than going to the dr ballast as it was originally.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 04:01 AM

Perfect. Thanks Robert! I appreciate it! I owe ya one. I'm going to head to the electronic store this weekend to get a few feet of the colors I need, so it'll be easy to follow in the future.

Any idea what gauge these wires are? I'm guessing 16g? Am I even going to be able to crimp 3- 16g wires into a spade connector??? I may have to get creative.

I'll let you know when I get it fired up!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 04:17 AM

You might get one of those double or triple brass male/female taps at your parts house. They look unsightly but they do work or instead of crimping/soldering all 3 together you might put one of em at another correct terminal location in the blue wire circuit so they ain't all ganged up on 1 terminal plus it'll look much better. I ain't sure on the gauge.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 05:58 PM

That's a good idea, I'll just run the blue switched 12v directly to the VR and run one from there over the input side of the ballast, where it'll meet the supply for the ECU. That way I'll have two going into the ballast and two going into the VR instead of 3 and 1.

In case people were curious, after some searching, here are the gauges for the wires I'm replacing-

Yellow ignition trigger starter relay wire- 18 gauge

Brown start trigger wire for ignition ballast bypass- 14 gauge

Dark blue w/ tracer switched 12V for VR- 16 gauge

Dark blue switched 12V from VR to upstream side of ballast 16 or 18 gauge

Posted By: 74yellowduster

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 06:44 PM

had a similar problem once on my old '68 dart 340.

it turned out to be...

the distributor cap had a hairline crack. you could only see the crack if you held it up to the light.

common issue if you recently changed the headers (jacked up the engine) or broke a motor mount etc because the smallblock dizzy will hit the firewall

yours could be a different problem. but it's like a $5 / 5minute fix
worth a try

Posted By: dan9

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/12/14 08:41 PM

I was wondering what the ballast on the wiper is for. I have one on my 70 Challenger also and one for the ignition.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/13/14 03:32 PM

Quote:

I was wondering what the ballast on the wiper is for. I have one on my 70 Challenger also and one for the ignition.

I noticed that on mine too. I'm not sure what that's for. I'll probably look into that next.

Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/13/14 06:11 PM

The wiper ballast is to let the wipers park.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/14/14 05:23 PM

Quote:

The wiper ballast is to let the wipers park.

Thanks! Did not know that.

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/17/14 07:37 PM

Well, I finally I finished wiring it. I ended up making a new yellow starter trigger wire, eliminated the old original ballast and ran a new brown wire to the new ballast for a 'cranking 12v', ran a new blue 12v run wire to the VR and one from there to the 'run' side of the ballast. It really cleaned up the engine bay. I crimped, soldered and heat shrinked all the connections and it turned out pretty clean. I didn't use any butt connectors and used all factory colors, so trouble shooting down the road will be easier. All I have left to do is buy some sort of braided loom or tape to cover the wiring. Is there a product you guys recommend??? I just hate electrical tape because it just makes a goopy mess.

More importantly, it fired right up and seemed to idle a lot smoother now that the coil (+) wire is only going through one ballast and the ECU is seeing a true 12V. Of course, the popping and voltage drop at higher rpms was gone as well.

After taking it for a spin, everything seems to be working as expected. It gets a little warm for my liking, but that may be cured by a simple thermostat change. It seems a little gutless as well, but I'm sure bolting on the set of Dougs headers I have and the RPM Air Gap will help; as will a good convertor.

Thanks again for the help guys. I really do appreciate it. This has been such a great learning experience.

Posted By: RJS

Re: Coughing/popping when revved - 03/17/14 08:31 PM

All the restoration Vendors sell the non stick tape that was used by the factory for you to re-wrap you harnesses.
Good to hear you solved it.

Years ago I put together my Dart Sport with a warmed over 440 etc..
Couldn't get the engine to go over 4000RPM.
All the engine harnesses were cut and taped by previous owner so I went to a local cab company that had old cabs sitting that they used as parts cars and I bought the harness out of a 318 car and modified it to work with my 440 swap.

Took the car up the block to a deserted street next to a school at night and stood on it. The car jumped up to 6500 smoking the tires going sideways to the 2nd gear shift and just revved up to the 3rd gear pull. Guys playing softball in the yard were glued to the fence and cheering, never forget that day...
Ron

Coughing/popping when revved