why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/12/14 09:52 PM

Not true, we can run Holleys. They aren't any faster. Guys that use Holley's claim better 60 ft. The difference isn't much .02-.03. In my experience the Eddys out MPH the Holleys. Either way they're very close.
Doug

I know a few NSS racers and they cannot run Holleys, at least not on a wedge mopar.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/12/14 10:18 PM

My dislike of all the Carter AFB based carbs is the lazy accelerator pump, way too much throttle travel before you get a healthy

Holley pump shots are more positive.

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/12/14 10:43 PM

I have used the AFB series and they are best suited for putting around I will not even think about running one any more. I own and have Carter AVS {good carb} TQ good when worked on Q jet Good when worked on. Holleys in 600DP -650DP 750DP and 800DP and 650 DP spread bore. 600-650-750 vac secondary. I have run them all and settled into the 650DP and 750 DP and for winter the street avenger 750. The AFB is one of all tested and used to never run as good as holley or the other's for that matter

Posted By: gch

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 12:11 AM

My only experience with them is 20 years ago I bought a manual choke 750 and tuned it death.It seemed to run well enough but I tried a 750 holley vacuum secondary and went .2 quicker in the 1/8 mile on a warmed up 440.
I think they are well suited to milder engines and for the crown that likes an electric choke on a cruiser.Never considered them a max performance carb after that.
I still have that same holley and it is currently on a stroked 351 windsor in a mustang of a buddies.The edelbrock is long gone.

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 04:19 AM

Man has always been afraid of the unknown. Learn how a carb works then you know what to change for your app.

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 07:52 AM

Quote:

over the last few years been seeing some negative comments about the eddy 750 carb. whats wrong with them? was thinking of getting one for my fury

The few that I have used were OK. The float level adjustment is really important on those carbs, and the only way to adjust it is by removing the top.
When tuning them, it is really tempting to just throw different rods at it, which is more likely to get the carb out of tune, then changing the jets.

Posted By: 383man

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 08:04 AM

The few 750's I delt with were all lean the way they came. I did some tunning and they worked fine after that. Here is what my brother says about them as he runs 2 of them on his 64 Fury wedge NSS car. He is not crazy about running just one on a car but he loves running two of them on his car.

Ron

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 08:16 AM

Quote:

The few 750's I delt with were all lean the way they came. I did some tunning and they worked fine after that. Here is what my brother says about them as he runs 2 of them on his 64 Fury wedge NSS car. He is not crazy about running just one on a car but he loves running two of them on his car. Ron

My Carter Comp AFB that I had on my 383 would alaways run lean no matter what pump, nozzles, jets or rods, then I adjusted the float level higher than spec so the bowls would have more fuel in them, and it finally went rich. After fixing the float level issue, I ended up back to almost the stock jetting.

Posted By: dvw

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 04:21 PM

I also have a pair of Carter Comp 750s on a blown small block. After purchasing a O2 I found that to get them to 11.8-1 F/A all that was required was stock jetting with only a metering piston spring change.
Doug

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/13/14 09:22 PM

I've tuned and had good luck with other Eddys, AVS, TQ, and Holley offerings. The 750 Eddy was trouble on any number of engines. They just don't seem to respond to changes like other carbs. You can get them to run better after some work out of the box, but not a easy as virtually any other carb. Then you might even be lucky enough to get one that has mystery problems with signal. I would rather put a carb that works right on it and be done. No reason to fumble around tuning a carb when you could be driving the car.

Posted By: MY340

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 06:33 AM

Used a 1407 Eddy on my built 360 1970 Duster and it ran great. Ran it with a 1" 4 hole spacer on a Weiand dual plane high rise intake. Motor had a 280H CompCam and I bumped the intial timing up to 20 degrees. No hesitation at all at any throttle position. Gas mileage wasn't great but who cares.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 12:46 PM

I used to be all about Holley...had a 2bbl 500, a 4bbl 390, an 800...They started stumbling over each other...the 500 and the 390 were in different stages of a Mod Slant 6. I couldn't get the curve correct but an OOTB Eddy 500 took care of it and then some fine tuning down the road.

70 Charger with the 800 Holley, Choke horn milled off, left me stranded one too many time to the point where I had it professionally rebuilt to no avail. I had to get that Charger to a car show...removed the 500 from the slant, bolted it to the 440 and it was NIGHT AND DAY and I was under carb'd.

When we were finishing up the 69's restoration, we opted for the 750 Eddy. It ran and performed, always turnkey, never had to tinker with it. The thing most people forget when installing a carb is A/F ratio...Drill your exhaust people, pay the money for the Wideband. You'll save time and money in the long run.

the 750 is now on a friends car and it woke up his 58 Plymouth from the Holley that was on there. my 69' 440 has Dual 500s now and running sweet....I can press the pedal so far and go for a nice drive....and if I wanna get stupid I can go sideways with all 8 dumping fuel in

)

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 02:37 PM

Quote:

The thing most people forget when installing a carb is A/F ratio...Drill your exhaust people, pay the money for the Wideband. You'll save time and money in the long run.

Don't even need that, I have been tuning cars with "narrow band" sensors since 1992. (still have the K&N 02 gauge in the GTX where is has been for the last 22 years)

Even on the turbo cars running 30+ psi been using the narrow band with great success and if you screw up at 30 psi you end up with ashtrays.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 04:54 PM

It says something when guys who can get any other carb to work right can't get the 750 Eddy to go like it should. What does it say about a carb if you would need a wideband to tune it, when that isn't necessary to tune other carbs on the same engine?

I'm not saying a wideband isn't a good thing, but I am saying that points to an issue with one particular style of carb that requires one to tune.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 05:02 PM

Quote:

I'm not saying a wideband isn't a good thing, but I am saying that points to an issue with one particular style of carb that requires one to tune.

I think you are confusing the issue- No one is saying its required, what was stated was it is the best way for any carb.

Spent several weeks trying to get a Holley working respectable on my GTX, I hated every minute of it.

Holley's idea of good drivability is or was YOU WILL RUN RICH ALL THE TIME and with an O2 gauge staring me in the face painfully obvious.

I eventually got it working in a reasonable manner but it was still weak sauce compared to the TQ that proceeded it. The TQ had better transitions with much fewer lean/rich swings when going from one circuit to another.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 08:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I eventually got it working in a reasonable manner but it was still weak sauce compared to the TQ that proceeded it. The TQ had better transitions with much fewer lean/rich swings when going from one circuit to another.

Thank-You...

When I hear the word 'Holley', I run...

What a PITA...

At its most simplistic, look at an exploded view of a Holley, and compare that to a Carter...

There's a whole bunch'a Carter's runnin' in these parts...

And they RUN...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 08:47 PM

Quote:

He never did say which series he had.

There is no 750 in the Thunder series only 650 and 800. the thunder series would be a better choice for a street car wit hthe tunable secondary air door.

Dwayne Porter ran a performer series in a dyno test on his stocker 383 , it's in the tech archive , it was a turd , he swapped on the carter version of the same carb and it ran so much better , Ebrock has the carb made to their specs and it would appear that it is a different internal calibration than the carter version.

I have one of the old carter versions , great carb , I HAD the ebrock

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 09:26 PM

I have some experience with the Eddy 750 and it was not good, but I think my problems were self-inflicted. I built the engine in my '64 Polara from a PAW kit and I literally put it together OOTB. It had stock type "346" heads, 2.08 x 1.74 Valves, 2355F .030 pistons, steel crank, heavy 6-pack rods, the MP 284* x .484 Hydraulic cam with Rhoads lifters, MP Aluminum low profile manifold. The block was decked and the heads were milled enough so much so that I had to have the manifold cut to fit. I used the '68 to '70 Magnum exhaust manifolds that were on the car and the rest of the exhaust was as I got it in 1997. I first used a Eddy 600 CFM carb and it ran very well, I even got 14 mpg on one leg of the first trip to Reno.

And then I started tinkering with it, I changed to the RoadRunner Repro cam & kit to get better driveability, changed to the "452" heads with 2.14x1.81 valves and mild port work, added the Eddy 750 and had the DC Electronic Distributor re-curved. I know now that I went the wrong direction. I should have changed to a higher than 1964 stall converter and opened up the exhaust to improve air flow through the engine. That would have given me the drivability and performance I wanted and would have cost a lot less than what I had spent. Finally I sold the Eddy 750 to a friend and went with a Barry Grant 750 Vacuum Secondary and really saw no improvement. My friend put a kit into the Eddy 750 and is very pleased with the way his basically stock 440 runs in his '66 Fury Convert. The Polara hardly ever left my garage and I sold it in 2010 with a new Eddy 600 CFM. It now lives in Chicago.

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Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 10:10 PM

Quote:

Dwayne Porter ran a performer series in a dyno test on his stocker 383 , it's in the tech archive , it was a turd , he swapped on the carter version of the same carb and it ran so much better , Ebrock has the carb made to their specs and it would appear that it is a different internal calibration than the carter version.

Two words- Strip Kit.

No calibration is perfect for all engines, if you think the carb is a "sealed unit" then you might be the problem. This is true with any carb, Holley hides its shortcomings by running rich to cover the bad spots.

Carters are very easy to setup, after reading the book on Carters and how they operate it was very easy to dive in and make changes to suit my needs and have a carb with razor sharp throttle response, good mpg with excellent WOT. Just change one circuit at a time and when its perfect move onto the next.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/14/14 11:48 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure that Dwayne knows his way around a carb but I'll pass on that sage bit of advice in case he misses this thread

1) The way it was written there is an implication that the carb was not rejetted, i.e. "it was swapped out" The castings are virtually the same. I have rebuilt both Edelbrock and Carter AFB carburetors with excellent results.

2) Dyno testing which consists of just WOT pulls should have the fewest problems. Care to point us in the direction of this article? It contradicts what I and others experience including class racers who state the difference between Holleys and AFB's is slight. I'd like to read the details myself rather than from someone else second hand.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 04:25 AM

"Ebrock 750, #1407 with stock calibration"

"it was calibrated to the specs in the catalog."

He never changed the calibration, you were saying?

What I stated holds true, carburetors are NOT sealed units, they need proper jetting and settings for the engine they are to be used on.

Holleys get away with more because they are setup rich out of the box.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 07:02 AM

Quote:

What I stated holds true, carburetors are NOT sealed units, they need proper jetting and settings for the engine they are to be used on.

The problem is there are more people that think they are sealed units than don't.

He had ZERO intention of using that carb , it was just a test to see where it was out of the box. Did you skip over the part where he swapped on the CARTER 750 , which you state is the SAME CARB, and the engine didn't run like a piece of crap ? But again ZERO INTENTION of running that carb either. A strip kit is just jets, rods and springs, it does nothing if the carb itself, with incorrect size internal passages, is the problem.

I still stand by my thoughts and comments on this particular carb, it sux and I no longer waste money or time with one and will steer someone away from it if I can ... no matter if SOME have had good luck with it or not. There are better carbs out there.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 09:34 AM

I think most of you guys commenting on the Eddy 750 forget who Edlbrock sells a majority of the carbs to, it is not Mopar people

Most standard replacement carbs are calibrated and designed to be ran on Chevy motors

I have tried to tune a 750 Holley D.P. carb. on a 383 SB Chevy by reading the spark plug,, when I got it tuned to make the spark plug look like I would like to see in any of the Mopars I've tuned the owner said it didn't run as good as it did when the spark plugs where black

we took it to the track, LACR and he was right, the SB Chevy wanted to be a lot richer on the jetting than any of the other Mopar motors with a 750 Holley D.P. wantedto be at the track

I bought a Carb. Shop 1050 Dominator that they had dyno tested on one of thier dyno mule motors, 408 SB Chevy with some power and torque, when we put that same carb. on one of my bracket 440 motors is was way to fat, calibrated all wrong for the 440

A stock OOTB Holley List # 9375 made around twenty HP and similar Ft lbs. of torque more than thier wazzu custom built carb. did

It is all about the tune and calibration to get any carb. dialed in for your motor

BTW, a wide ban is one of my new best tools

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 01:04 PM

Quote:

The problem is there are more people that think they are sealed units than don't.

Then they are very much in the wrong hobby and are in the vast minority, perhaps its just were you live.

Quote:

He had ZERO intention of using that carb , it was just a test to see where it was out of the box.

Wait- Did you not state "he knew his way around a carburetor" and now you are stating something else? huh.

Quote:

Did you skip over the part where he swapped on the CARTER 750 , which you state is the SAME CARB, and the engine didn't run like a piece of crap ?

You have reading comprehension issues my friend, I stated they were virtually the same castings. Jetting, metering rods and spring rates make a huge difference.

Quote:

But again ZERO INTENTION of running that carb either. A strip kit is just jets, rods and springs, it does nothing if the carb itself, with incorrect size internal passages, is the problem.

And you know this how? You picked a poor example "as proof" and display a bit of ignorance about how the AFB's are constructed. I have a problem taking your word on the subject as to the shortcoming of this particular carburetors design. On the other hand I own several Edelbrock and Carter AFB's and they all work great and have rebuilt and tuned several hundred over the decades for a living (including Holleys, TQ's and AVS not to mention non-mopar stuff like quadrajets and even the horrible VV carb from Ford!) for other people without issue.

A single example in which the user freely admits making no changes to the unit is not a sweeping indictment on Edelbrock carbs.

I find it amusing that people will spend vast amounts of time on Holley carbs "drilling this circuit" or "swapping out this air bleed" or "trying this modification" but won't spend some time learning how AFB's work which are the simplest of devices.

But that's ok, more for me ;-)

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Attached picture 8040205-1277078_10153321692085716_404966627_o.jpg

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 04:06 PM

You are beating your head against the wall. JohnRR is a rock, if something doesn't conform then it's not him, its whatever.

Most guys who think they know how to tune a carb have no clue, especially the ones that just slap a Holley on and go cause it's "perfect". Guess what Holley deliberately tuned those carbs for that "I know how to tune a carb, but don't" crowd. Just like JRR.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 04:42 PM

Quote:

Guess what Holley deliberately tuned those carbs for that "I know how to tune a carb, but don't" crowd.

Back in the day when I participated in "unsanctioned acceleration events" the look on peoples face when I told them I was running a Carter was precious. They always expected to see a Holley in there and for some reason always looked let down when there wasn't.

I always took immense gratification relieving them of their cash afterwards.

Was never part of the "speed secret of the week" club. Sharp tuning and careful selection of parts for the package went far compared to "experts" advice.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 05:06 PM

bottom line you can run TWO Carter/Eddys or ONE Holley, I guess the choice is yours. There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen. The Out of the box Edddy 750 is not going to run well on a mild BB, even w/ the strip kit. However an out of the box Holley 750 will w/ a few turns of the screw driver.
The Eddy 750 isn't bad, it's just not meant for all out performance.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 05:23 PM

90% of what I have run over the last 40 + years have been AFB/AVS/TQ in just about any configuration,single carb/cross ram/long ram and 2x4,"NEVER" had any tuning issues with any combination.Only variance from Carter was/is the 6pk cars I have owned then and now.I read post after post of some of you who don't have a clue what is going on,then ask a question and get a dozen different answers,and you are still at square one.There are reliable sources for just about anything,find one and get it right,you will be much happier at days end.

If you want a prime example.go to FBBO and look at a few of the threads on overheating issues,it will boggle your mind.

My sig pretty much sums up my thoughts,also the phrase "been there,done that" goes back a long way with me,eventually you get the picture.

Everybody take a deep breath and have a great day !!

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 05:34 PM

Quote:

There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen.

ahem.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/25.html

If I looked at the chart correctly, the difference between the best Holley and the best Carter was 6 hp and the best Carter number beat out several of the Holley carburetors.

Posted By: sixtyninefuchs

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 06:00 PM

I have a stock 1407 edelbrock carb on a street hemi with an m1 (crate engine intake)

It starts great, runs great, and is fast.

It has run 12.82 @ 107 mph 4120#

I suppose a holley would get me in the 11's!!!!

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 06:25 PM

Quote:

I have a stock 1407 edelbrock carb on a street hemi with an m1 (crate engine intake)

It starts great, runs great, and is fast.

It has run 12.82 @ 107 mph 4120#

I suppose a holley would get me in the 11's!!!!

no but I bet it'd run 12.55 or better.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 08:30 PM

Quote:

I find it amusing that people will spend vast amounts of time on Holley carbs "drilling this circuit" or "swapping out this air bleed" or "trying this modification" but won't spend some time learning how AFB's work which are the simplest of devices.

BAM...

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 09:33 PM

Your three examples trump everything that's been listed here???

I don't know how long gdonovan has been doing carbs, but I suspect a while...

I've been playing with Carter's for 35 years...

It's all been for naught???

Tell you what, come over here and walk through the pits at the Pure Stock Drags...

I'm sure you'll get any pertinent info you might need regarding Carter's if you don't like what you see here...

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 09:50 PM

Quote:

I don't know how long gdonovan has been doing carbs, but I suspect a while...

A long time, hell I'm even factory Mopar trained for Thermoquads, Carter BBD's and Mikuni carburetors.

A lost art now, clearly some folks just want "bolt on and go" pieces that work "most of the time" fat and safe which is fine by me.

Gives me the advantage in a race.

Perhaps you could give these guys some advice, there seems to be some issues with an "out of the box" Holley.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post8038080

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 10:33 PM

Quote:

Your three examples trump everything that's been listed here???

I don't know how long gdonovan has been doing carbs, but I suspect a while...

I've been playing with Carter's for 35 years...

It's all been for naught???

Tell you what, come over here and walk through the pits at the Pure Stock Drags...

I'm sure you'll get any pertinent info you might need regarding Carter's if you don't like what you see here...

You are funny, sure any carb can be tuned. Seems like the only people here that can get them working are "experts". I'm no expert. I have used both (still have a Strip kit in the garage), the Holley works better for me and for MOST. Sure you can make anything run, how much time and labor? It's called pure stock for a reason, walk thru a any other line and you'll see mostly Holleys or Holley based carbs. And what examples do you have? One artical that used a 100 different combos? Or the guy that has two carters? Have you ever raced a car one weekend w/ one carb and another the next? I took an old beat up Holley I bought for $30 rebuilt it almost to stock and ran better et and MPH than an Eddy I (and a master mechanic friend) spent many track hours tuning. I was very happy when the car went 13.11. But even happier when it went 12.90.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 10:37 PM

Quote:

Oh no...

I avoid Holleys like the plague...

Sorry, I meant folks like Mr.Yuck.

I have three Holley's I fool about here (an early street avenger 670, a race 950 and a tricked out discontinued 4010) and try to keep an open mind, you never know when a better mousetrap will come along.

Anything can be made to make a car run and run well, just need to understand what the trade offs are and how they work of course.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 10:45 PM

Quote:

Gary, I will say, even in these parts there are a lot of people with older cars who don't work on them, and certainly many who won't open up a carb.

This isn't limited to carburetors as you noted, when I was running Relentless Performance there was a sizable number of people who would just throw a car together and declare it done.

Tweaking the cam timing, distributor timing, fuel pressure, injector size, etc, etc was a concept they could or would not embrace.

In my experience that's where the real gains are, honing the car till it runs its best. At the other end of the spectrum, I attended a dyno event in Ohio where I worked on a guys calibration and made over 30 pulls!

There was literately nothing left on the table when we were done.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/15/14 11:59 PM

There are multiple examples of Carter 'performance' on this thread from a wide range of different outlooks...

One more ain't gonna change your mind...

So, I'll leave you with this...

ONE example(like I alluded to above)...

Me...

20 years of 'test and tune'...

Actually, very little tune, but lotsa' test...

In a much wider range of circumstances than a car making passes at WOT and going home...

Cold-Idle;fast-idle;curb-idle,off-idle transition;low-speed cruise;high-speed cruise;WOT...

Together with extreme time in traffic in very hot temps...Extended high-speed cruise...A little street runnin'...And even some passes at the strip...

20,000 miles worth...

All with a 750 over a 440 with a 484/284 hydraulic...

Some minor playtime with the rods and springs...

Very little with jetting...

Beyond that, just a check of specs and adjustments...

It's performed above and beyond expectation...

In harsh conditions, and a cocktail to contend with today's sh%#&y 'fuel'...

It's been there 20+ years...

It's staying right there...

Posted By: CokeBottleKid

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:22 AM

AFBs are for street rods and cruisers, holleys are if you want performance. You will ALWAYS leave something on the table with an AFB.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:28 AM

Sounds about right. I don't really care about horsepower numbers, just ET and MPH, and mine's a pretty fat Duster at 3,450 pounds, but yeah, still 670 pounds lighter than yours.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:33 AM

Quote:

mine's a pretty fat Duster at 3,450

My A-body was 3150 with me behind the wheel...

A little 'weight ' in the boot???

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:49 AM

Quote:

AFBs are for street rods and cruisers, holleys are if you want performance. You will ALWAYS leave something on the table with an AFB.

I'll repeat, ahem.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/25.html

The difference between the best Holley and the best Carter was 6 hp and the best Carter number beat out several of the Holley carburetors. And from the looks of things aside from a rejetted AVS the Carters had no tuning done while a few of the Holleys were modded.

Its a poor musician who blames the instrument.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 01:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

mine's a pretty fat Duster at 3,450

My A-body was 3150 with me behind the wheel...

A little 'weight ' in the boot???

Our '76 Dart weighs 3,400 pounds. Our '72 Challenger weighs 3,340 pounds. lol...the later A-bodies are pretty heavy. But our '65 Dart should weigh in at 2,900 race weight.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:00 AM

lol! No lead floor mats or roll bar. And it's a small block! No Jimmy Hoffa in the trunk either. I actually thought maybe the first scale was wrong but I weighed it again at Norwalk and it was within 10 pounds of the first scale... :/

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:23 AM

Quote:

Our '76 Dart weighs 3,400 pounds. Our '72 Challenger weighs 3,340 pounds. lol...the later A-bodies are pretty heavy.

My '74 Duster is 3600 lbs with me on board, they are a tad on the porky side and that is with aluminum rims.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:24 AM

Quote:

I've never drilled this or swaped air bleeds, as a matter of fact Most of the holleys I've run haven't even had air bleeds.

I was not aware Holley made carbs without air bleeds.

Keep talking Yuck, you illuminate yourself.

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:26 AM

Quote:

lol! No lead floor mats or roll bar. And it's a small block! No Jimmy Hoffa in the trunk either. I actually thought maybe the first scale was wrong but I weighed it again at Norwalk and it was within 10 pounds of the first scale... :/

Wow, my buddys car 68 Dart 440 full cage dana hinged fiberglass hood and bumper weighed 3020 on the scales at Maple Grove.Now these where race cars but only things removed where seats,heater box,wiper motor. Glass and all the hardware still there. Sorry if this got off topic couldn't resist.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:32 AM

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Our '76 Dart weighs 3,400 pounds. Our '72 Challenger weighs 3,340 pounds. lol...the later A-bodies are pretty heavy.

My '74 Duster is 3600 lbs with me on board, they are a tad on the porky side and that is with aluminum rims.

Whew! Thanks for redeeming me!
(Sorry about the subject change guys...back to your regularly scheduled Eddy/Carter vs. Holley debate, I'm finding it very interesting.)

Posted By: forphorty

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 04:36 AM

I've never owned an Eddy carb. I'm opposed to them for purely aesthetic reasons. They're ugly, what with their shiny finish and that little red decal on the front.

Now, a 4150 or 4500 series Holley

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:05 PM

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I've never owned an Eddy carb. I'm opposed to them for purely aesthetic reasons. They're ugly, what with their shiny finish and that little red decal on the front. Now, a 4150 or 4500 series Holley

Oh aesthetics! Don't care as long as they mix the fuel =)

I do think the EFI setups that look like Holleys is pretty cool, mounting the EFI module on the unit not so much.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 12:39 PM

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Have you ever raced a car one weekend w/ one carb and another the next?

Actually I prefer to make changes at the same event and do so on a regular basis. Its called A-B-A where you move off your baseline (A) to the new change (B) and then back to your baseline (A) to verify that the new change was actually the cause of the change and not some other variable.

I've even done cam changes at the track when I was campaigning the Reliant, only way to be sure. Waiting a week introduces to many other variables.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 03:13 PM

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I've never owned an Eddy carb. I'm opposed to them for purely aesthetic reasons. They're ugly, what with their shiny finish and that little red decal on the front. Now, a 4150 or 4500 series Holley

Put a large 6-pack style air cleaner and you won't ever see the carb's....I am biased though....I have a Hemi Style Dual Quad Air Cleaner covering my "ugly Carter's".

I don't particularly care about horsepower gains. I want my torque, I want to get off the line quicker if I wanna play OR just cruise along...and I know in the last three years that my Dual 500s have been on my engine they haven't been tinkered with once except for my A/B setting (A = Summer / B = Winter) when I adjust the rest of the engine to meet the climate. It's right on the money with what she wants.

Attached picture 8041365-DualQuads.JPG

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 05:00 PM

humm where do I start?
I don't hate the Eddy/Carter carbs, however if the car goes to the track I wouldn't use one.
I would use another Eddy if I wanted a driver as they do tend to be better suited for a daily...or cruiser car. But then again I guess one could always use a small vacuum holley.
If I shelld out the cash for a Hemi and it only made 393hp I'd be depressed. Tey an 800 thunder or 850DP and you see what that thing can do. My lame 6-pack is still pulling hard at the stripe (heavy car just like yours). The eddy 750's seem to run out of steam at 3/4 track. (unless you are using 2)
And the comment on air bleeds has been missunderstood. I have never monkied with air bleeds..is that better for you? Even when I went w/ a proform main body.
When you can take an out of the box Eddy 750 and use the basic strip kit drop it on a mild (425-450ish HP) BB and beat a 750DP let me know.
last word, read some posts. I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 05:30 PM

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If I shelld out the cash for a Hemi and it only made 393hp I'd be depressed.

480 calculated flywheel hp isn't too shabby considering he is grossly undersized on carburetor CFM, I bet it has wicked throttle response.

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last word, read some posts. I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Pretty poor argument, people love them some Kardashians too but they are just trailer trash to me.

How someone "feels" means not a jot to me, how something works is another story. I have plenty of track and dyno time under my belt and feel comfortable stating I can take any AFB the same size as a Holley and it will perform just as well if not better.

You are here bashing on how a single part number OOTB Edelbrock works poorly but have nothing to say about how bad the OOTB Holley 670 works in this thread-

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8038080

Even the dyno test offered as PROOF "how bad" the OOTB Edelbrock is points out there was AFB/AVS running with and/or beating out Holleys.

You don't like Carters, that is fine. But to state Holleys are the be all and end all of carburetors that can't be beat is dead wrong and there are plenty of facts to back up that statement.

The only advantage today that I see for "Team Holley" is that large CFM single unit squarebore 4-bbl are available off the shelf, which if you are a "Carter fan" would have to run a used spreadbore TQ.

Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 05:51 PM

Basically, it's a matter of personal choice and comfort. For example Dustergirls' 340 is a "GIANTKILLER" with the Holley, which is great for her combo. Mr. Yuck prefers the "six gun" for his 440, which is a very LETHAL combo! However, the Street HEMIS and Max-Wedges ran great with Carter AFB"s and were extremely tunable. The fact is, yes Holleys' are a bit more "user-friendly" when it comes to tuning than Carters since there are more of them in circulation and the racing industry has had MORE development time with them (Holleys). Carter AFB's can and will run as good as a Holley, IF, they are tuned CORRECTLY for the individual motor combination you have. They are more sensitive to compression, cam and ignition timing, since their secondaries work off of engine vacuum/airflow! AVS's and TQ's are more forgiving, with different engine combinations, mainly due to the spring loaded "air door" secondaries. For most street and street/strip motors Carters can handle most applications (again, TUNED CORRECTLY), but Holley continues to be the standard in street/strip and "all out" racing!

Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 06:37 PM

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AFBs are for street rods and cruisers, holleys are if you want performance. You will ALWAYS leave something on the table with an AFB.

That may be a valid statement to some, but AFB's can deliver performance too, again IF TUNED RIGHT to the engine combination! Leaving something on the table, you say?
It's called a "trump card" when AFB's are used in dual 4bbL
setups. Always keep an "extra" 10% more, in the back pocket, for when the race is tight (neck to neck)! FWIW, I like Holleys

..but.. I LOVE Carters.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 07:55 PM

"480 calculated flywheel hp isn't too shabby considering he is grossly undersized on carburetor CFM, I bet it has wicked throttle response."

You hit the nail on the head. He'd make much more power with a better carb. A 750DP or even better HP would give him much better performace. Even a thunder 800 would..
I'm glad somebody brought up Thermoquads. I love them, however finding a good one seems hard these days.
FWIW a big 4bbl would probably run better on my car, but I've always wanted a 6-pack, I can't afford a hemi

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 08:04 PM

This is a really sophomoric argument.

Arguing which 1950s technology is superior. The Holley 4150 platform first saw wide service on Phord's Thunderbird. And AFB stands for Aluminum Four Barrel because they dated to a time when carbs had cast iron bases.

The CarterBrocks are simpler carbs that have far fewer sizes with very few choices. But, when right, they are extremely dependable.

The Holley style platform has far more sizes available. And a ton of different combos in each of those sizes.

As far as tuning, I don't think that there are a heck of a lot more guys that understand carbs today than there were 40 years ago. So the way it runs their car OOTB determines whether it rocks or is crap. More luck of the draw than precise planning or tuning or even brand.

Having said that, I am getting ready to buy the carb designed by a former Carter engineer working for a subsidiary of Holley; the new Street Demon.

That way we all win!

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 08:15 PM

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The CarterBrocks are simpler carbs that have far fewer sizes with very few choices. But, when right, they are extremely dependable.

For tuning, Edelbrock has 32 different metering rods, at least 16 different jet sizes, 5 different step-up springs, and at least 3 different accelerator discharge orface sizes. The old Cater strip kit adds another 6 metering rods.

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 08:19 PM

I'm agnostic in this

. They all have the same type of circuits and both have +/-.
Holleys have power valves that leak or blowout and the carb has to be pulled, drained and flipped to change, the Carter metering rod setup is bulletproof and easy to change. Changing the jets on a Carter can easily be done with the carb on and no draining of the fuel bowls is required.
The secondaries are easy on a Holley, esp if you have the quick change upgrade for the vacuum dia. The AFB carbs have issues with the secondary being a PITA to adjust, the AVS Thunder carbs are easy.
Comparing a DP Holley to an AFB/AVS is apples =/= oranges, they were designed for different purposes. Saying a DP Holley is better on the track (drag race) than a vacuum secondary carb of any stripe is really a no-brainer.
If there is a significant HP difference then carb is defective, poorly calibrated, or otherwise mismatched.

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 08:37 PM

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The CarterBrocks are simpler carbs that have far fewer sizes with very few choices. But, when right, they are extremely dependable.

For tuning, Edelbrock has 32 different metering rods, at least 16 different jet sizes, 5 different step-up springs, and at least 3 different accelerator discharge orface sizes. The old Cater strip kit adds another 6 metering rods.

You are confusing tuning parts with carb choices. There are very few CarterBrock choices for a given size of carb when compared to the Holley platform.

That does not necessarily mean that the CarterBrocks are inferior, just that you are more likely to need to tune one rather than find a version closer to your needs OOTB.

But then, most guys don't know how to properly size a carb for their needs, let alone choose the best metering for their application or be able to tune it. So six of one, half dozen of the other.

Posted By: Junky

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 09:36 PM

I'm far from being an expert on tuning carbs. However, I've ran both the 750 Edelbrock Performer and the 3310, 750 Holley on my 383. They're like night and day. I tuned on both of them. The Edelbrock seemed to run just fine. Later I switched to the Holley. Had a slight stumble. Tuned on it until it ran really good. My ole 383 runs much stronger with the Holley. I'll take the 750 3310 Holley any day over the 750 Edelbrock Performer.

Posted By: dvw

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:00 PM

Granted these Carter/Eddy/Weber carbs are slugs.
Dave Dudek, pure stock Super Bee Factory stock 10.92@127
Doug Duell "Dragon Wagon"
N/SS 9.39@145
DVW 64 Belvedere
N/SS 9.25@147.7
And lets see what have I done to mine? Metering piston spring change, secondary jets up 2 sizes, removed the choke blades. Gee that was hard. For what it's worth Len Adamacks 63 Plymouth N/SS was faster with Eddy's than Holley's. Ya it's a slug also.
8.99 @151. Duell's car now has Holley's still runs the same class, no miracle speed improvement.
And yes I also have cars with Holley's. They'll all work .
Doug

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:01 PM

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"480 calculated flywheel hp isn't too shabby considering he is grossly undersized on carburetor CFM, I bet it has wicked throttle response."

You hit the nail on the head. He'd make much more power with a better carb. A 750DP or even better HP would give him much better performace.

Again this is just "wishcasting" assuming he would have better performance with a Holley over a Carter of the same size.

He would have greater performance with a ANY carburetor with more CFM than 750, he is undersized for the application/displacement.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"480 calculated flywheel hp isn't too shabby considering he is grossly undersized on carburetor CFM, I bet it has wicked throttle response."

You hit the nail on the head. He'd make much more power with a better carb. A 750DP or even better HP would give him much better performace.

Again this is just "wishcasting" assuming he would have better performance with a Holley over a Carter of the same size.

He would have greater performance with a ANY carburetor with more CFM than 750, he is undersized for the application/displacement.

ok keep telling yourself that. A holley 750 DP/HP or even a vacuum would give him more HP. I have 3/4's of a holley 750dp in the garage. If somebody wants to buy the rebuilt kit and 2 fuel bowls, I'll rebuilt it and give it to him. If it doesn't run 2.5 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile I'll buy all parties involed a 30 pack of Bud.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:11 PM

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You are confusing tuning parts with carb choices. There are very few CarterBrock choices for a given size of carb when compared to the Holley platform.

What new argument is this?

500, 600, 625, 750 and 800 cfm isn't enough? I'd wager you are covering most of the market there.

Granted a 850-1000 CFM would be very, very nice for stroker engines but don't see it happening anytime soon.

I have been watching the TQ knock off Street Demon from Demon/Holley with great interest though. I don't see them going over 750/800 cfm though due to being locked into the squarebore pattern and I doubt Holley wants poaching from their higher end products.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:17 PM

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ok keep telling yourself that. A holley 750 DP/HP or even a vacuum would give him more HP.

Looking at Dwayne's dyno results its a wash.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/25.html

Facts are pesky things, they don't go away because you want them too.

If you picked up 2 1/2 tenths doing a carb swap of the same CFM you are doing something wrong in the first place.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:22 PM

I'll have to check but I think it's a 750, it's been on the shelf a while. I used part of it for a 750 rebuild like 5 years ago.
Can't you buy the Mopar M1 w/ a spread bore? I'd think a 440 w/ a 1000 TQ would be a good running car. I think QuickD has 2 on his Hemi.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:26 PM

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A holley 750 DP/HP or even a vacuum would give him more HP. I have 3/4's of a holley 750dp in the garage. If somebody wants to buy the rebuilt kit and 2 fuel bowls, I'll rebuilt it and give it to him. If it doesn't run 2.5 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile I'll buy all parties involed a 30 pack of Bud.

Sam Adams Boston Lager, no Bud for me thanks.

I'm tempted to take you up on that offer- I have a well sorted out 750 AFB on the Duster and it needs a shake down this spring at Lebanon Valley after a carb, cam and trans swap.

=)

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 10:31 PM

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Can't you buy the Mopar M1 w/ a spread bore? I'd think a 440 w/ a 1000 TQ would be a good running car.

Yes, the M1 has a spreadbore pattern but if anyone is going to tool up and make a new carb they are going to want to have it fit a maximum number of vehicles and spreadbores are in the minority.

440 runs great with a TQ, I campaigned for years with an 850 on a TM-7 with an adapter plate. Back on the shelf waiting to be used again on a different car now that the GTX is sporting the tunnel ram again.

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:01 PM

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Can't you buy the Mopar M1 w/ a spread bore? I'd think a 440 w/ a 1000 TQ would be a good running car.

Yes, the M1 has a spreadbore pattern but if anyone is going to tool up and make a new carb they are going to want to have it fit a maximum number of vehicles and spreadbores are in the minority.

440 runs great with a TQ, I campaigned for years with an 850 on a TM-7 with an adapter plate. Back on the shelf waiting to be used again on a different car now that the GTX is sporting the tunnel ram again.

Now that you mention it, spreadbores are none existent in CarterBrocks. Again they are the simpler carb with less choices for those that like that.

But Holley and their partners are making more and more carbs with dual patterns. Including the new Speed Demon.

I just couldn't help mentioning it.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:05 PM

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But Holley and their partners are making more and more carbs with dual patterns. Including the new Speed Demon.

Ahem.

You are aware that both the Carter and Edelbrocks AFB's also have a dual bolt pattern? And have done so for decades?

The new "TQ" from Demon is not a spreadbore carb, its designed for squarebore intakes. That's why the CFM ratings are so low (750 max), the secondary butterfly is limited to fitting the smaller squarebore opening.

Dual pattern and spreadbore/squarebore are two different things.

Spreadbore carbs never caught on in the market even though they are an excellent idea with small primaries and much larger secondaries. I doubt anyone would tool up to make a new design. You can sell just about anyone a squarebore carb but spreadbore the market is limited and there is plenty of Quadrajets out there.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:23 PM

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The problem is there are more people that think they are sealed units than don't.

Then they are very much in the wrong hobby and are in the vast minority, perhaps its just were you live.

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He had ZERO intention of using that carb , it was just a test to see where it was out of the box.

Wait- Did you not state "he knew his way around a carburetor" and now you are stating something else? huh.

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Did you skip over the part where he swapped on the CARTER 750 , which you state is the SAME CARB, and the engine didn't run like a piece of crap ?

You have reading comprehension issues my friend, I stated they were virtually the same castings. Jetting, metering rods and spring rates make a huge difference.

Quote:

But again ZERO INTENTION of running that carb either. A strip kit is just jets, rods and springs, it does nothing if the carb itself, with incorrect size internal passages, is the problem.

And you know this how? You picked a poor example "as proof" and display a bit of ignorance about how the AFB's are constructed. I have a problem taking your word on the subject as to the shortcoming of this particular carburetors design. On the other hand I own several Edelbrock and Carter AFB's and they all work great and have rebuilt and tuned several hundred over the decades for a living (including Holleys, TQ's and AVS not to mention non-mopar stuff like quadrajets and even the horrible VV carb from Ford!) for other people without issue.

A single example in which the user freely admits making no changes to the unit is not a sweeping indictment on Edelbrock carbs.

I find it amusing that people will spend vast amounts of time on Holley carbs "drilling this circuit" or "swapping out this air bleed" or "trying this modification" but won't spend some time learning how AFB's work which are the simplest of devices.

But that's ok, more for me ;-)

Oh sorry , you are the king of carb tuning , everyone else on the planet is an IDIOT compared to you .....

I'm out , you're

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:25 PM

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But Holley and their partners are making more and more carbs with dual patterns. Including the new Speed Demon.

Ahem.

You are aware that both the Carter and Edelbrocks AFB's also have a dual bolt pattern? And have done so for decades?

The new "TQ" from Demon is not a spreadbore carb, its designed for squarebore intakes.

Dual pattern and spreadbore/squarebore are two different things.

Spreadbore carbs never caught on in the market even though they are an excellent idea with small primaries and much larger secondaries. I doubt anyone would tool up to make a new design. You can sell just about anyone a squarebore carb but spreadbore the market is limited and there is plenty of Quadrajets out there.

Still, spreadbores are non existent in CarterBrocks. They are simpler with less choices.

But you're right that they bolt onto both styles of intakes, there is no dispute there.

I am not sure that I would agree that the new Street Demon is not a spreadbore or that it was designed for square bore intakes. Or that spreadbores never caught on. Demon claims it was designed for both, hence the GoogleValve or whatever they are calling it. There is certainly a large difference in the primary and secondary bores.

Tell ya what; if you don't want to call it a spreadbore, why don't we call it a Google bore? And we'll note that it was designed by a former Carter guy.

Any chance that will make you happy?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:26 PM

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I think most of you guys commenting on the Eddy 750 forget who Edlbrock sells a majority of the carbs to, it is not Mopar people

WINNER !!!!!

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/16/14 11:52 PM

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Still, spreadbores are non existent in CarterBrocks. They are simpler with less choices.

Why on earth would they make a product there is virtually no demand for? I mean if thats a plus for Holley then by all means take it.

How many spreadbore carbs does Holley sell every year? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? I'm betting closer to 1 in 1000 than 1 in 100 considering how many regular flange carburetors they have for sale. I might have handled one or two spreadbores Holleys in my life and both were on RV's.

Quote:

I am not sure that I would agree that the new Street Demon is not a spreadbore or that it was designed for square bore intakes

It's clear it isn't a spreadbore carb like the TQ or Quadrajet. They tried to make it like them (very small primary & very large secondary) but were limited on the secondary side due to the width of the squarebore opening, that's why it has more of a blade to maximize the cfm on the secondary side.

Will it fit on a spreadbore intake like the M1 with a large hole?

Sure, so would any AFB or Holley. The secondary blade on the street demon is no wider than a common squarebore intake opening though unlike a TQ or Quadrajet. I can bust out some gaskets for a comparison if you like.

Quote:

Any chance that will make you happy?

People trying something new always makes me happy! Innovation is a wonderful thing and its nice to have more options not less in the marketplace.

I give Holley a big thumbs up for bringing it to market.

Now make a 900 cfm model =)

P.S. I have no particular animus against Holley, I like some of their products very much (like I stated already, have three of their carbs on the shelf) and there is features they have which are nice to have (always liked the sight glass for fuel level, external adjustable needle and seat which is also removable for cleaning) but other features are less desirable to me such as puking fuel everywhere during jet changes, popping power valves, gaskets below the fuel line and the air/fuel ratios tending to be on the fat side all the time.

Since in my experience (mirrored in Dwayne's dyno results) there is no real hp difference between a properly tuned Holley and a properly tuned Carter of the same size I prefer the Carter since it has better transitioning between circuits, the fuel is contained in the bowls (no gaskets to leak) and no power valve to blow out.

If I were to install a Holley of the same CFM as the AFB currently on there and picked up an incredible 25 hp (2.5 tenths) I'd leave that sucker on there.

Fair enough? Trying to be diplomatic here, but some of you are asking me to disregard 30 years of carb work under my belt, Dwayne's dyno results and the class racers who have also chimed in. Not going to do it.

Attached picture 8041934-streetdemon.jpg

Attached picture 8041934-streetdemon.jpg

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 12:23 AM

What if !!

Attached picture 8041987-Carter3bbl.jpg

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 12:24 AM

Quote:

Still, spreadbores are non existent in CarterBrocks. They are simpler with less choices.

Oh that reminds me, can't run Holleys front to back on most low profile dual quad intakes but then again only streetrods run those!

<cheesy grin>

Attached picture 8041989-dualquad1.jpg

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 12:25 AM

Quote:

What if !!

Old 3 blade Pontiac?

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 01:02 AM

1st place 14 feet 3 inches
2nd place14 feet 1 1/2 inches
3rd place 12 feet 5 inches
etc.
etc.
etc.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 01:48 AM

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And the comment on air bleeds has been missunderstood. I have never monkied with air bleeds..is that better for you?

Not what you said and not misunderstood.

It becomes more evident the more YOU post that YOU do not know how to tune a carb, therefore the too rich out of the box Holley is perfect, for you.

Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 03:05 AM

Quote:

This is a really sophomoric argument.

Arguing which 1950s technology is superior. The Holley 4150 platform first saw wide service on Phord's Thunderbird. And AFB stands for Aluminum Four Barrel because they dated to a time when carbs had cast iron bases.

The CarterBrocks are simpler carbs that have far fewer sizes with very few choices. But, when right, they are extremely dependable.

The Holley style platform has far more sizes available. And a ton of different combos in each of those sizes.

As far as tuning, I don't think that there are a heck of a lot more guys that understand carbs today than there were 40 years ago. So the way it runs their car OOTB determines whether it rocks or is crap. More luck of the draw than precise planning or tuning or even brand.

Having said that, I am getting ready to buy the carb designed by a former Carter engineer working for a subsidiary of Holley; the new Street Demon.

That way we all win!

That is funny!!

Since Edelbrock did pick up where the Carter/Weber people left off. And funny that he perfected a carburetor design from them also. The Aluminum Four Barrel is unique because of it's self adjusting secondary air (flap) valve. Works automatically to engine airflow demand. A mismatched/poorly tuned motor combo will NOT allow this type carb to perform flawlessly. Is it an "all-out" carb? No...but AGAIN, it can deliver outstanding performance when PROPERLY tuned for the street, strip or both!

Posted By: sixtyninefuchs

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 04:17 AM

Quote:

"480 calculated flywheel hp isn't too shabby considering he is grossly undersized on carburetor CFM, I bet it has wicked throttle response."

You hit the nail on the head. He'd make much more power with a better carb. A 750DP or even better HP would give him much better performace. Even a thunder 800 would..
I'm glad somebody brought up Thermoquads. I love them, however finding a good one seems hard these days.
FWIW a big 4bbl would probably run better on my car, but I've always wanted a 6-pack, I can't afford a hemi

How about I go through the misery of rebuilding my 4781 AGAIN (and hope it doesn't leak gasoline all over my engine) I hate carbs that leak fuel....float bowls, 50cc accelerator pumps, blowing fuel out the vent tube from the smallest particle in the needle and seat, etc.

And what about the wonderful world of power valves (that can't stand up to todays fuels....although an alcohol power valve would probably work)

No thanks, I like my dirt eating edelbrock (14 years without ANY leaks, failed power valves, or needle and seat issues)

Oh, I forgot to say I have a 440 six pack as well (since 1990) and I love how it performs, just hate the maintanence.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 05:42 AM

Quote:

popping power valves,

Most Holley's have blow out proof protection now

Posted By: hemi pwr

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 05:50 AM

I have 2 600s on my and work great for me

Attached picture 8042519-20130408_111758.jpg

Posted By: 383man

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 08:10 AM

You know alot of Mopars came with Carter AFB's and AVS's on them and ran great. My opinion is both Holleys and Carters/Eddy carbs will work very good. I will say on my 63 I really like the driveability the 850 Holley DP gives me but I would have no problem running two Carter/Eddy carbs. I hate to say this and I mean no offense by it by most of the time when I see someone that says they hate a certain carb it is usually that they dont know what they are doing and really have no bussiness working on carbs. It helps a ton to understand carbs if you want to work on them. Ron

Posted By: mopar65

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 08:28 AM

Quote:

bottom line you can run TWO Carter/Eddys or ONE Holley, I guess the choice is yours. There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen. The Out of the box Edddy 750 is not going to run well on a mild BB, even w/ the strip kit. However an out of the box Holley 750 will w/ a few turns of the screw driver.
The Eddy 750 isn't bad, it's just not meant for all out performance.

Oh you don't say? funny i ran 10.52 at 125 in the 1/4 with a set of box stock edelbrock 750 carbs. all i did was set the idle and take out the choke plate.s. i had them on my 440 powered 65 Plymouth.sorry not trying to bash you in any way.just i think saying they wont work in a performance set up is not right. mopar65

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 12:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

popping power valves,

Most Holley's have blow out proof protection now

The new ones, how many old ones without are still floating around? A lot, Holley did not introduce the protection until the early 90's I think.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 03:23 PM

And direct from Holley !

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Posted By: dannysbee

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 04:43 PM

A good friend of mine had a street belvedere he built on a budget. It was a stock 440 shortblock with ported 915 heads a tm7 a mild comp solid cam and 1 7/8 super comp hookers. He had a 440 Avs on the shelf so he used it. Car was a stock all steel belvedere street car and would run 7.50 at the track. Nothing fancy but a well sorted street car. People at the track would see the avs and say what kind of carb is that. Next thing out of their mouth would be I bet if you had a Holley it would pick it up at least a tenth. Long story short my friend tried it and bought a brand new 750 dp. After much tuning he finally matched et but never did get the Holley to 60' as good as the avs. His take was the Holley was a bit better on top end but throttle response and mid range performance along with mileage was better with the avs. He sold the Holley and kept the avs. My friend is a above average with his tuning abilities and I believe this is a good comparison of the two carbs.

Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 06:55 PM

The consensus was and is the Edelbrock Performer 750 had a fault- a fault the Performer 500 and 600 do not have. What lends credibilty to this claim is the fact Edelbrock omitted the 750 cfm size for their Thunder series and chose to develop an 800cfm unit. The Thunder line is offered in 500 600 and 800cfm.

Posted By: 71birdJ68

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 07:02 PM

I have two 650 Thunders on my Hemi, what about them?

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 07:07 PM

Quote:

The consensus was and is the Edelbrock Performer 750 had a fault- a fault the Performer 500 and 600 do not have.

Who is this consensus you speak of? A number of people have chimed in that they are not having any issues at all.

If you are "slap on and go" type of guy that doesn't jet properly for the application then yes you might have a problem on a Mopar.

This has already been beat to death.

Quote:

What lends credibilty to this claim is the fact Edelbrock omitted the 750 cfm size for their Thunder series and chose to develop an 800cfm unit. The Thunder line is offered in 500 600 and 800cfm.

Lot of speculation there bro, I could just as easily state that Edelbrock just went to an 800 CFM AVS style carb since there was a demand for a higher flowing unit then an 750.

50 cfm isn't much, a TQ will pickup that up taking the choke tower off. 800 CFM might be all Edelbrock can squeeze out of the existing casting size without a major retooling.

Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 07:09 PM

Quote:

I have two 650 Thunders on my Hemi, what about them?

I stand corrected. I didn't know the Thunders were 650cfm.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 07:15 PM

By the way- The two AVS models (650 and 800) flow 50 more cfm than there AFB counterparts. I suspect that this is because the AVS has a totally different secondary booster setup than the AFB, hence flowing 50 more cfm of air.

Which would pretty much shoot your theory out the window. On the primary side, AFB and AVS are the same. I bet Edelbrock just modified the existing 600/750 AFB castings to use the AVS style booster tube and spring door.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 08:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

And the comment on air bleeds has been missunderstood. I have never monkied with air bleeds..is that better for you?

Not what you said and not misunderstood.

It becomes more evident the more YOU post that YOU do not know how to tune a carb, therefore the too rich out of the box Holley is perfect, for you.

actually non of them I've set up have run rich, including the three on this car. But carry on w/ your badash carb building self, since I don't know what I'm doing.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 08:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

bottom line you can run TWO Carter/Eddys or ONE Holley, I guess the choice is yours. There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen. The Out of the box Edddy 750 is not going to run well on a mild BB, even w/ the strip kit. However an out of the box Holley 750 will w/ a few turns of the screw driver.
The Eddy 750 isn't bad, it's just not meant for all out performance.

Oh you don't say? funny i ran 10.52 at 125 in the 1/4 with a set of box stock edelbrock 750 carbs. all i did was set the idle and take out the choke plate.s. i had them on my 440 powered 65 Plymouth.sorry not trying to bash you in any way.just i think saying they wont work in a performance set up is not right. mopar65

right you needed TWO. Try it with one.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 08:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not saying a wideband isn't a good thing, but I am saying that points to an issue with one particular style of carb that requires one to tune.

I think you are confusing the issue- No one is saying its required, what was stated was it is the best way for any carb.

Spent several weeks trying to get a Holley working respectable on my GTX, I hated every minute of it.

Holley's idea of good drivability is or was YOU WILL RUN RICH ALL THE TIME and with an O2 gauge staring me in the face painfully obvious.

I eventually got it working in a reasonable manner but it was still weak sauce compared to the TQ that proceeded it. The TQ had better transitions with much fewer lean/rich swings when going from one circuit to another.

I think it is pretty clear that people are needing to rely on one to get the 750 to work right, compared to most of us being able to get carbs to be reasonably close without a gauge. That should speak volumes about where the 750 Eddy stands against other carbs, even other Eddy variants.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/17/14 10:05 PM

Quote:

I think it is pretty clear that people are needing to rely on one to get the 750 to work right, compared to most of us being able to get carbs to be reasonably close without a gauge.

I myself use a gauge because I like to be precise, not guess at how the car is running or by some crude method like "looking at plugs"

Why leave good tools in the toolbox? Chrysler trained me to use O2 sensor readings when diagnosing problems with EFI (even before that with those damn feedback Holley 2bbls on 2.2 engines), why should I throw that most excellent tool away when working on carburetors?

If you had a gauge staring you in the face... you can't miss the poor fuel control of some carburetors. Having information is good, better than being ignorant.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/18/14 05:23 PM

Who are you talking to, must be yourself. Or some strawman. Who said anything about a gauge being a bad idea? I said if you need to turn to a tool when you otherwise would not, you look at the variables that cause that. The 750 Eddy carb is what changes in the equation. That's a simple concept that you are missing, so stop with the other talk to make yourself feel good about your use of tools. Run whatever carb you want to spend the time or dollars on. I will be running just about anything else than a 750 Eddy and not worrying what you or anybody else are doing, beyond giving an opinion on the subject when it comes up here.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/18/14 05:54 PM

Quote:

Run whatever carb you want to spend the time or dollars on.

That suggestion should have put this subject to bed three pages ago !!

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb - 02/18/14 07:44 PM

Quote:

Who said anything about a gauge being a bad idea?

You implied that is a gauge was required to tune a 750, hence what I stated.

"I think it is pretty clear that people are needing to rely on one to get the 750 to work right, compared to most of us being able to get carbs to be reasonably close without a gauge. "

Feel free to use any tool you like in carb tuning, an O2 gauge isn't required to tune an Edelbrock 750. I'd simply start with the same springs/jets/rods as a Carter 750.

Quote:

The 750 Eddy carb is what changes in the equation.

And Holley's don't suffer from poor jetting out the box? There is an ongoing thread this moment concerning an OOTB Holley and the noted issues with it.

You Holley guys are mighty selective in your criticism.

why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb