Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 09:47 PM

A buddy is working on his 03 Dodge Ram 1500. 105,000 miles and get this---the brake drums have likely NEVER been removed.

They are stuck to the axle flange/hub big time. He made a really nice big beafy 2 jaw puller that locates on the back lip of the drum and he sprayed wd40 on all the lugs and the hub and let sit overnight. Even used an impact on the puller.

Much beating with big hammers. Tried an air hammer on it too. Heat also employed (mapp gas). He may have tried candle wax last night.
Is seems the drum face to the axle flange face have firmly bonded.

How would a brake shop deal with this? He's considering buying new drums and carefully and tediously cutting these off with cut off wheel.

Posted By: savoy64

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 09:51 PM

he needs to back off the star wheel on the automatic adjusters----since they dont want to back off---you will need to push a small screwdriver in to hold off the sprung bracket then turn the star wheel to release....i bet there are some pictures somewhere...

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 09:57 PM

My '98 Ram was the same way. I fought the drums off & on for three days. Heat, hammers, Kroil, pullers, no dice. I ended up drilling holes in the drum & threading them for bolts.With the bolts in I just kept snugging them up to the axle flange a little at a time until they finally popped free.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 10:00 PM

Quote:

he needs to back off the star wheel on the automatic adjusters----since they dont want to back off---you will need to push a small screwdriver in to hold off the sprung bracket then turn the star wheel to release....i bet there are some pictures somewhere...

We discussed that, but the drums/axles rotate freely so the shoes themselves are not interfering with removal.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 10:05 PM

Quote:

My '98 Ram was the same way. I fought the drums off & on for three days. Heat, hammers, Kroil, pullers, no dice. I ended up drilling holes in the drum & threading them for bolts.With the bolts in I just kept snugging them up to the axle flange a little at a time until they finally popped free.

Doesn't seem like this is possible? I mean the thickness of the drum at this point is probably about 1/8 inch, with much more axle flange metal behind it. If you drill a hole it would be very hard to tap (using a bottoming tap?) ONLY the drum so that the bolt doesn't start threading into the flange???

Or am I missing something?

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/26/14 11:03 PM

It was thicker than that for sure, I had enough meat for threading.

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 12:28 AM

What I would do is support the truck on jack stands, then put a floor jack so the lift pad is on the inner lip of the drum and slowly raise it up. I use this on big bus drums- make sure the shoes are as loose as possible. I'm NOT telling you what to do Blah Blah Blah www.legaldisclaimer-ect

Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 12:32 AM

Quote:

he needs to back off the star wheel on the automatic adjusters----since they dont want to back off---you will need to push a small screwdriver in to hold off the sprung bracket then turn the star wheel to release....i bet there are some pictures somewhere...

The shoes could have worn into the drums, leaving a ridge worn where the shoe linings didn't go all the way to the edge of the drum. Manually draw the shoes in so they don't get caught on that ridge and fight you.

Posted By: 65rbdodge

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 12:35 AM

cut off wheel on a grinder, wear safety glasses. cut a notch and break pieces away with a hammer/chisel. repeat until its all off.

Posted By: therocks

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 12:44 AM

I had a lot like that.The drum centers are stuck to the axle.I usually hit them with a hammer and work them around.I wouldnt doubt that the drums also have a ridge built up toward the backing plates.Makes it almost impossible to get past the shoes even though the drums turn free.Either adjust them down or keep working them off.Ive spent over an hour trying to get drums off some at the shop.Until you get the drums to pop off the axle center you wont do much though.Hit them near the hub center and keep turning them as you hit.Rocky

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:16 AM

I don't know if the new ones have this, but the older ones have a post with a spring and retaining cap.
it keeps the shoes from pulling away from the backing plate.

you can pry them up and cut them from the back, so the shoes collapse when you pull on the drum, if the shoes are holding it on.

Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:43 AM

I've had good luck hitting the drum with the the ball end of a ball peen hammer between the lugs. It deforms the drum and breaks the rust bond. Sometimes takes a while.

Robert

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:46 AM

MAPP gas won't do it here. You need a real torch for this one. Cherry it up good and then get the BFH after the axle while pulling on the drum.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:46 AM

Quote:

I've had good luck hitting the drum with the the ball end of a ball peen hammer between the lugs. It deforms the drum and breaks the rust bond. Sometimes takes a while.

Robert

THATs an idea! Thank you

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:48 AM

Quote:

The shoes could have worn into the drums, leaving a ridge worn where the shoe linings didn't go all the way to the edge of the drum.

If that were the case the drum would pull off a ways and then meet spring resistance from the shoe retainer springs. The OP's is stuck to the hub and won't move any.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 01:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The shoes could have worn into the drums, leaving a ridge worn where the shoe linings didn't go all the way to the edge of the drum.

If that were the case the drum would pull off a ways and then meet spring resistance from the shoe retainer springs. The OP's is stuck to the hub and won't move any.

Exactly. It's NOT the shoes.

Posted By: savoy64

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 02:01 AM

then if the whole thing is rusted together you may need to drive in the lug studs then start hammering the drum into the flange to break it free....but once you knock the studs in it will be hard to rotate the drum around to work on it....

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 02:17 AM

Quote:

then if the whole thing is rusted together you may need to drive in the lug studs then start hammering the drum into the flange to break it free....but once you knock the studs in it will be hard to rotate the drum around to work on it....

What progress does hammering in the studs perform?

Posted By: skicker

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 02:42 AM

sometimes when they're stuck its everywhere. driving the studs out releases all the area around them. Hitting the drum at the axle flange helps a ton but till you get done using the round end of the ball peen hammer between the studs more than likely the studs will be f'd up anyway. It works this way but you will beat on it a lot. If I don't have access to a rosebud that's the way I get them apart.

Posted By: savoy64

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 02:44 AM

one less rusted surface---if the rust is plated between the drum and flange i would figure there is rust built up between the studs and the holes in drums---knock out 8 studs = more possibility of things wiggling around----and yes i have done it to units at the junkyard...

Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 03:29 AM

Starting the nuts on the lugs is SOP for hammering the drum flange.

Robert

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 03:33 AM

Quote:

MAPP gas won't do it here. You need a real torch for this one. Cherry it up good and then get the BFH after the axle while pulling on the drum.

Yes mapp gas is not near hot enough.

I use a BFH, a mini sledge hammer.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 03:35 AM

Quote:

I've had good luck hitting the drum with the the ball end of a ball peen hammer between the lugs. It deforms the drum and breaks the rust bond. Sometimes takes a while.

Robert

IMO, this is a very god idea also, exactly what a ballpein hammer is made for.

Posted By: john55

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 03:44 AM

Quote:

MAPP gas won't do it here. You need a real torch for this one. Cherry it up good and then get the BFH after the axle while pulling on the drum.

this will work, BTDT

Posted By: 67DodgeCharger

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 05:19 AM

Apply a break free fluid to the axle and drums, go to store and purchase one 12 pack of favorite beer for each day you have off from work, go home and sit in your recliner and drink beer, drink all beer, grab a hammer and beat on the drum and axle, REPEAT

Posted By: Sixgun

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 05:31 AM

Greg, I got this.(formerly from the land of the rusty cars)
What needs to happen is clean the axle center register if you haven't already,lube with PB or similar,and pull OUT on the drum outer edges, even if only with a couple of pry bars,(no need for the 'force of God', just some tension)
and use a punch and a small sledge to knock the axle center register IN at the same time.These axles have(or used to)a good bit of end play, and if you "unload' it by prying the drum OUT, and knocking the axle IN simultaneously, it will give.Trust me.
regards,your new neighbor, Case

Posted By: therocks

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 02:56 PM

Also make sure the small clips they install from the factory are taken off.Ive seen people try to get drums off only to find the thin clips holding them on.Rocky

Posted By: High Impact

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 03:22 PM

Three things needed:

1) You need a real torch. Heat till cherry red.

2) Use the puller your buddy made with the impact.

3) Big Hammer!

Im in Northern Michigan and have used a three jaw puller and my torch on some terrible rusty drums...It takes alittle time but the heat it the part your missing! And dont be afraid to swing that hammer!!

PS> if its a good puller your buddy made, IF the shoes are stuck inside once that drum break's free you'll pull the retainers that hold the shoe's on off the pins and then you will have to dig out the shoes from the drum with a pry bar or whatever..

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 04:10 PM

Never in 27 years had one that wont come off...

Use a rosebud end on a real oxy/acet rig and heat the center until red hot...Use a prybar between the drum and the backing plate and pop it off...If its hung up on the shoes, it will likely break the holddown pins/caps, but you can replace that stuff after you get it apart..

MB

Posted By: feets

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 11:15 PM

Once the drums are off coat the face of the axle flange with antisieze or some other compound to prevent future rust issues.

Posted By: 19SuperBee70

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/27/14 11:24 PM

Quote:

cut off wheel on a grinder, wear safety glasses. cut a notch and break pieces away with a hammer/chisel. repeat until its all off.

I had to do this with rotors on a liberty. I tried everything and nothing worked. Then buy a spray can of never-sieze and spray the face before putting back together.

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/28/14 04:11 AM

Screrw the

. Replace the complete rear end..

Posted By: therocks

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/28/14 02:51 PM

Clean the hubs first before the antisieze.I use my die grinder and a rolox disc.When I cut drums at work I also take off about .100 more where the rust ring build up on the drum.Makes it a bit easier when you pull them again.That part of the drum never sees the shoes so it dosent hurt anything.Rocky

Posted By: jlatessa

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/28/14 05:20 PM

That's a slick idea, Rocky, I think I'll pull mine now and do that before I put any miles on them.

Thanks, Joe

Posted By: astrobuf

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/29/14 01:03 AM

The shoes are deeply worn into the drum. There is no point in trying to save the drums. I'd go after the drum with a cut-off wheel and cut it off in two pieces.

You might save yourself some work by grinding the heads off the shoe hold down pins on the backing plate. This might give you enough ability to get the drum off the backing plate enough to release the springs etc with a thin screwdriver slipped in. Might not work though as the shoe ends may still be retained.

Plan to replace all the hardware here as everything will be shot.

Astrobuf

Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/29/14 04:42 AM

DOT3 brake fluid at the flange. let it sit for a bit and then beat the snot out of it.

don't knock it until you try it.

Posted By: mopargem

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/29/14 05:51 AM

Had an 89 D150 with stuck drums at the hub flange and applied heat and hammered and crow barred from back side and they finally came off. BUT not long after, both axle seals leaked and had to pull axles and replace the seals. I think the heat ruined them

Posted By: flypaper

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/29/14 06:12 AM

my preferred method after figting/beating the snot out of too many of them.
i take my die grinder and cut the heads of brake shoe hold down pins off from behind the backing plate...
it saves alot of beating/cutting/effort...

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/29/14 06:42 AM

My '99 Caravan was like that, and I was replacing all the brake parts anyway, so I just cut the drums off with a plasma cutter. It gave me a reason to play with the plasma cutter

Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Stuck brake drums. REALLY stuck - 01/31/14 02:34 AM

I bought an 8.75" that had been sitting in mud for a couple of years; the lugs were seized. I tried heat with an impact, but they still didn't move. A friend had the idea of heating them up again until cherry, dumping a bucket of water on them, and immediately hitting them with the impact again - sure enough, they spun right off.