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mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440?
Posted By: bigblockbryan
mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/09/14 10:37 PM
okay the other day i was thinking why dont i just get a adapter plate made to run a mustang 5speed in my super bee project. Like outta late 90s mustang that would be found behind 4.6 or 5.0 i know there will be alot of people that will hate the idea i just want to know if it'll hold. Diesel guys are doing this cummins conversions i think itd be a great alternative to cheap 5 speed i know the plate will cost somthing to have made but i have a friend with a machine shop and said hed be willing to do it.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/09/14 10:43 PM
In stock form it absolutely will not hold up for long behind any big block MoPar, especially in a B body, even with bias ply F70s, unless you drive it like a limo
Posted By: bigblockbryan
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/09/14 10:54 PM
whys is that because my motors are notheing too crazy just mild 440 is bored 30 over mp electronic igntion 10.5.1 comp 452 heads dual plane intake holly 750 dp
Posted By: 5spdcuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 12:07 AM
Personally I wouldn't do it. The T5 has a pretty low torque rating. The biggest plus about a T5 is the fact that they are abundant and fairly cheap. Parts are also readily available. I've gone through two of them in my six cyl. Mustang and they are barely OK there. They tend to be "notchy" and sychros aren't the best even with granny shifting. No doubt they can be made better as some Mustang racers have successfully used them. I believe the drag racers remove 5th. gear to reduce rotating weight. You would probably have to do some modifications to the tailhousing and or the transmission tunnel of the car to make it fit. I have a Tremec TKO in my 'Cuda which is very similar in design and size & shape. Both the tailhousing and the tunnel are modified in order to get it to fit. The TKO is much stronger and shifts much better than the T5's I driven. While the TKO is big improvement over the T5, a good fresh 833 with a properly adjusted Hurst shifter is still faster shifting. The best I can say is that a T5 would be a relatively cheap way to get overdrive IF you able and willing to do the work to make it fit. Of course an overdrive 833 would be the easiest to do if you can find one at reasonable cost.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 12:43 AM
The T-5 has a maximum torque capacity of 265 ft. lbs. or 310 ft. lbs. depending on whether it's the early or late version. A bone stock 440 is rated at 480 ft. lbs.
If you want a 5-speed of that style the TKO500 or TKO600 is the way to go.
Posted By: 68-scatpack-rt
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 12:50 AM
Yep, tremec TKO is the way to go. I couldn't keep t5's behind a mild 302 in a 3300 pound car.
Posted By: 71yelladustr
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 03:08 AM
I ripped the teeth off of third gear too many times to count in my 86 GT equipped with a T-5. I will guarantee you will do the same behind a totally stock 440 the first time you try to power-shift it. Dont do it. If you choose to, this ->
will lead to this ->
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 03:25 AM
You'd blow it up the 1st hard drop. Not to mention the
and
to get it to fit. I'd just go w/ a new Brewer 4 speed w/ OD if I were you.
Posted By: jcc
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 05:10 AM
Quote:
whys is that because my motors are notheing too crazy just mild 440 is bored 30 over mp electronic igntion 10.5.1 comp 452 heads dual plane intake holly 750 dp
I declined to reply because I thought you were joking, guess I was wrong? 
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 05:16 AM
Another vote for the $100.00 overdrive: A833od
That 440 will eat up those wide ratios, heck I have one behind a 318 2bbl in my beater and the gear spreads don't bother it at all.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 09:53 AM
Everything I've read indicates that the T5 is just not up to the task.
Posted By: bonefish
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 03:32 PM
my son has a 5.0 stang with a t5 and he beats the snot out of it. the tranny held up fine for over a week.then he put a TKO in it and his blues were over he has been beatin on this thing for over a year and he,s only on tranny # 3
Posted By: 1972CudaV21
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 03:34 PM
Go with a T56 transmission...
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 04:48 PM
Quote:
whys is that because my motors are notheing too crazy just mild 440 is bored 30 over mp electronic igntion 10.5.1 comp 452 heads dual plane intake holly 750 dp
Bryan its just not a very strong tranny. 5.0s don't make much torque in stock form, and they're relatively light compared to a B body. The foxbodys in the mid 13s start having issues with them from the guys who drag race and beat them. TKOs are pretty strong, but they're expensive. IMO its hard to beat the 833, but of course theres no OD on the standard 833.
Posted By: fury413rb
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/10/14 07:36 PM
Quote:
Go with a T56 transmission...
some serious floor work to get a t56 in
Posted By: VL21
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/11/14 02:52 AM
Quote:
my son has a 5.0 stang with a t5 and he beats the snot out of it. the tranny held up fine for over a week.then he put a TKO in it and his blues were over he has been beatin on this thing for over a year and he,s only on tranny # 3
There ya go, proof positive it will work. Can't go wrong with a recommendation like that! 
Posted By: 5spdcuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/11/14 03:02 AM
If you can afford it and you're not in a big hurry I would look into the new 855 transmission offered by Jamie Passion. It should fit without any modifications and is supposed to be plenty strong. Also made in the USA which I think is a plus. Ten years ago when I was putting my 'Cuda together the Keisler Tremec TKO conversion was the only practical overdrive option available. I certainly don't have any regrets for going that way since I would have had to wait a decade just to get on the 855 waiting list. At my age a decade is definitely too long to wait. If I was doing it today the 855 would be my first choice.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/11/14 03:20 AM
I'd bet a Big Mac meal that the OP is looking for a cheap solution.
Posted By: 5spdcuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/11/14 03:50 AM
I suspect that you're probably right about the OP wanting to keep the cost down. I don't like to spend more than necessary either. Still he's talking about a Super Bee which if it's a decent car deserves a quality job. Quality and cheap seldom go together.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/11/14 03:59 AM
Quote:
If you can afford it and you're not in a big hurry I would look into the new 855 transmission offered by Jamie Passion
Posted By: bigblockbryan
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 06:10 AM
thanks for the advice just was a idea floating around in my head and i wont be doing it i guess this year the car will hope fully get the body painted thanks for the advice
Posted By: Twostick
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 07:50 AM
Find you a mid 80's Dodge pick up with the 833OD in it They made a gazillion of them with /6 in front of them so they aren't beat up and they have the correct length tail shaft so it's a slam dunk for a B-body. I've heard that they had the iron case too so you avoid or at least reduce the countershaft issue the aluminum case has.
A guy local to me has one in a Hemi Roadrunner (real one) that he has made several 3000 mile road trips with. As long as you treat the OD with some respect it will serve you well. Hemi + 15+ MPG = Life is good!
Kevin
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 03:57 PM
Quote:
Find you a mid 80's Dodge pick up with the 833OD in it They made a gazillion of them with /6 in front of them so they aren't beat up and they have the correct length tail shaft so it's a slam dunk for a B-body. I've heard that they had the iron case too so you avoid or at least reduce the countershaft issue the aluminum case has.
Kevin
You heard....
I have three of them, none of which have an iron case.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 05:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Find you a mid 80's Dodge pick up with the 833OD in it They made a gazillion of them with /6 in front of them so they aren't beat up and they have the correct length tail shaft so it's a slam dunk for a B-body. I've heard that they had the iron case too so you avoid or at least reduce the countershaft issue the aluminum case has.
Kevin
You heard....
I have three of them, none of which have an iron case.
Well I thought I heard it here.
Maybe some early ones got iron cases that were left over from when they quit building the regular 833?
In any case I think even if you had a machine shop bush the aluminum case, you would still have a pretty cheap bolt in OD.
Kevin
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 05:50 PM
I think you are confusing iron tailshaft for iron case. All of the ones I have are iron tailshaft, aluminum case. Not sure why they went that route myself.
If the OP is looking for a weak 5 speed to blow up behind a 440 consider an NP535/NV2500, at least the hack to make it fit will be minimal.
Posted By: Dan Halen
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 06:26 PM
I've seen a few iron case units, a friend of mine has one and won't
sell it to me.. it's been sitting on the shelf since 1992.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/12/14 09:56 PM
The only IRON cased OD 833s I've seen are A/F body versions.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/15/14 02:17 AM
Quote:
In any case I think even if you had a machine shop bush the aluminum case, you would still have a pretty cheap bolt in OD.
Kevin
not by the time you add up the $ cost of all the small parts to make it happen.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/15/14 07:59 AM
Quote:
Quote:
In any case I think even if you had a machine shop bush the aluminum case, you would still have a pretty cheap bolt in OD.
Kevin
not by the time you add up the $ cost of all the small parts to make it happen.
I'm not sure I follow.
A rebuild kit from Brewer's is less than $200. You can buy the OD833 all day long for $150-$200 sometimes much less. The only extra cost here is to bush the case which I can't imagine would be more than 2-3 hours tops and most of that to set up the machine. The OD833 is pretty much half the price of a T5 so that goes a long way to pay for the case fix.
All the other so called bolt in options with the exception of 1 vendor don't bolt in and they all cost thousand$ some of them many thousand$.
If you do your own labour you should be able to have a fresh rebuilt trans in the car for around $500-$600 plus whatever it cost to fix the case. If you have to pay somebody I think you still have the trans all new in the car for $1500 +/-, case fix and all. Doesn't sound cheap but compared to the others I think it is and it BOLTS in.
Kevin
Posted By: Magnum
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/15/14 04:33 PM
A T5 is definately not strong enough for your application. It's also not a bolt in. So for the work involved it's not a winner.
833 with od has terrible ratios for any spirited driving. Wide spread between gears and it's still and external linkage.
T56 is a great transmission. Ratios are perfect. Deep overdrive. Internal shift linkage that will feel the same after 15 years. Strong transmission but will require fabrication to install. It's also the best shift quality of all the transmissions considered.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/16/14 04:27 PM
Do you know what falls out of the south end of a north bound mule? This statement:
Quote:
833 with od has terrible ratios for any spirited driving. Wide spread between gears and it's still and external linkage.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/20/14 07:36 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In any case I think even if you had a machine shop bush the aluminum case, you would still have a pretty cheap bolt in OD.
Kevin
not by the time you add up the $ cost of all the small parts to make it happen.
I'm not sure I follow.
A rebuild kit from Brewer's is less than $200. You can buy the OD833 all day long for $150-$200 sometimes much less. The only extra cost here is to bush the case which I can't imagine would be more than 2-3 hours tops and most of that to set up the machine. The OD833 is pretty much half the price of a T5 so that goes a long way to pay for the case fix.
All the other so called bolt in options with the exception of 1 vendor don't bolt in and they all cost thousand$ some of them many thousand$.
If you do your own labour you should be able to have a fresh rebuilt trans in the car for around $500-$600 plus whatever it cost to fix the case. If you have to pay somebody I think you still have the trans all new in the car for $1500 +/-, case fix and all. Doesn't sound cheap but compared to the others I think it is and it BOLTS in.
Kevin
by the time you buy a big block bellhousing and a factory clutch pedal, z bar and clutch linkage with new pivots you've already hit 500 bucks. add in the buy in price for the trans, shifter, shift handle, shift linkage, trans rebuild and case bushing, clutch and flywheel, floor hump, new rug for 4sp, you're already at over 1500 in parts probably closer to 2 grand. go price that stuff out. if you have a b body or e body especially that stuff is not cheap! been there, sold my od833 before I put it in because for not that much more money I could have a much nicer od trans. if you already had an 833 in your car sure ya go for it. if you're switching from an auto, not worth it imo. only nice thing about it is it bolts right in.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/20/14 10:45 AM
FYI old farts, he said late 90s mustang... which used T-45 transmissions not T-5... different trans, way stronger.
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/21/14 02:43 AM
I'm in the middle of swaping an 833-OD into a 64 D100 Sweptline my boys are building. It already has manual pedals in it and a Friend gave me the 4 speed OD for free.
Here's what I've projected (some parts I've already purchased) in costs so far even with a free no rebuild trans:
BB bellhousing (shipped): $300+
Fly wheel:$150+
Used truck Shifter:$65
Shift rods:$75
Clutch setup: $200
That's already $890...still a shift boot too. Maybe I'm forgetting something too....and I got a free trans and a truck already setup with pedals that I HOPE is good to go.
Posted By: Magnum
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/21/14 03:03 AM
Quote:
Do you know what falls out of the south end of a north bound mule? This statement:
Quote:
833 with od has terrible ratios for any spirited driving. Wide spread between gears and it's still and external linkage.
Ok I will rephase. Wide ratio tranmsissions give you low starting gears and high cruising gears. With a limited number of gears, like 4. You get big rpm drops between gears. Not ideal for high performance cars. Hence, modern cars have 5, 6, 8 speed transmissions.
As for external linkage. If EVERYTHING is better than brand new. It may work pretty good for about a year. Then a few thou slop in the arm, a couple thou in the shift rod and next thing you know you have half an inch of slop at the shifter handle.
An internal rail transmission will feel the same after 10 years.
Posted By: upnover
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/21/14 04:06 AM
a regular t5 wont stand up behind a stock mustang what makes you think that will hold up to a car that is probably at least 500 lbs heavier?
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/21/14 05:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Do you know what falls out of the south end of a north bound mule? This statement:
Quote:
833 with od has terrible ratios for any spirited driving. Wide spread between gears and it's still and external linkage.
Ok I will rephase. Wide ratio tranmsissions give you low starting gears and high cruising gears. With a limited number of gears, like 4. You get big rpm drops between gears. Not ideal for high performance cars. Hence, modern cars have 5, 6, 8 speed transmissions.
As for external linkage. If EVERYTHING is better than brand new. It may work pretty good for about a year. Then a few thou slop in the arm, a couple thou in the shift rod and next thing you know you have half an inch of slop at the shifter handle.
An internal rail transmission will feel the same after 10 years.
If you define "high performance" as no torque then yeah it's an issue. And a hurst pitpack fixed your sloppy blues simply and easily.
At least with the A833 there is no fitment issues unlike other so called no hassle fits.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: mustang 5 speed behind mopar 440? - 01/22/14 06:39 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In any case I think even if you had a machine shop bush the aluminum case, you would still have a pretty cheap bolt in OD.
Kevin
not by the time you add up the $ cost of all the small parts to make it happen.
I'm not sure I follow.
A rebuild kit from Brewer's is less than $200. You can buy the OD833 all day long for $150-$200 sometimes much less. The only extra cost here is to bush the case which I can't imagine would be more than 2-3 hours tops and most of that to set up the machine. The OD833 is pretty much half the price of a T5 so that goes a long way to pay for the case fix.
All the other so called bolt in options with the exception of 1 vendor don't bolt in and they all cost thousand$ some of them many thousand$.
If you do your own labour you should be able to have a fresh rebuilt trans in the car for around $500-$600 plus whatever it cost to fix the case. If you have to pay somebody I think you still have the trans all new in the car for $1500 +/-, case fix and all. Doesn't sound cheap but compared to the others I think it is and it BOLTS in.
Kevin
by the time you buy a big block bellhousing and a factory clutch pedal, z bar and clutch linkage with new pivots you've already hit 500 bucks. add in the buy in price for the trans, shifter, shift handle, shift linkage, trans rebuild and case bushing, clutch and flywheel, floor hump, new rug for 4sp, you're already at over 1500 in parts probably closer to 2 grand. go price that stuff out. if you have a b body or e body especially that stuff is not cheap! been there, sold my od833 before I put it in because for not that much more money I could have a much nicer od trans. if you already had an 833 in your car sure ya go for it. if you're switching from an auto, not worth it imo. only nice thing about it is it bolts right in.
Unless I misunderstood the original post the OP's car is already a 4spd because he talks about the only thing he needs to put in the T5 is an adapter plate.
Kevin