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How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?

Posted By: mopar346

How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 03:32 AM

Built the engine for my AAR this week end, pretty much a stock build except it is running a hydraulic purple shaft with the original adjustable rocker arms. In the past I have either run non-adjustables with hydraulics or a solid lift cam. When I have done brand X motors with shaft style rockers I roll the push rod between my thumb and forefinger and simply tighten them until I feel resistance. I tried that this evening it didn't feel right, no real spring pressure. I ended up backing them off until the plunger was on the clip and then tightened it little to get a some clearance between the plunger and the clip. It I correct in my thinking I will be fine as long as I am in the plunger action but not deep enough for them to bottom out. Still just not comfortable, since the break in is fire it up and run it at 2000 rpms for 20 minutes it is critical that I have them adjusted right from the get go.

So with that said how do YOU do it to be safe and of course get the best performance. I have always heard loose valves equals more power at higher RPMs.

Thanks in advance, Kevin

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Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 03:39 AM

What type of hyd lifters are you running? anti pump ups?, variable duration?, std?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 03:55 AM

Dayclona is on to the fact that the type and even the brand of lifter can make a big diff. Some of the newer stuff requires less preload --that being said old days 3/4 to a full turn these days most work great with 1/2 - 3/4 turn for street.
The deal about less gives more power etc is often said yet seldom experienced. If you are racing a hyd cam you have a problem to start with IMO but...in a race engine you can set them to almost zero preload and get some more ( not much) RPM out of it-- on the street that would not be the smart move.
Looking at your set up I would say 3/4 turn and never take valve covers off ever again
The Best way is with intake off as you show--that way you can eyeball it as you do them all and get it very close. Use air to blow the oil from around the wire clip so you can really see what you are doing on each one. The ole feel it until it doesn't turn etc can be very deceptive and you learn that when you do it with intake off--some, for one reason or another do not give the right feel--you see this more with un run, un pumped lifters.
3/4 and let them rip
Hyd rollers ( most by Morel) are way less-- like a 1/4 turn and can be very sensitive to change
Posted By: TJP

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 04:02 AM

This is the simplest and the most accurate method taught to me 40 years ago. it has never failed me.
A remote starter switch will be very helpful for this process

Hydraulic lifters can be set, hot or cold, pumped up or not using this procedure. It will also work for an initial set up on a solid lifter motor.

For Hydraulics, most manufacturers want .020-.040 preload. If you have a 3-8 x 24 adjuster, 1” divided by 24 TPI = .0416” so 1/2 turn beyond zero lash, will = .020 , 3/4 turn will = .030.

I like to start at the LF corner of the motor. (exhaust) Turn the engine over in the direction of rotation until the intake valve for that cylinder is almost closed. You can now adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder.

Loosen the adjusting nut until the pushrod spins freely between your finger tips. While spinning the pushrod slowly tighten the adjusting screw, when you find zero lash your will feel a definite change in resistance to spinning the pushrod. You may want to repeat this a few times to get the “feel”. Once zero lash is found, add 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn and lock the adjuster.

Move to the next valve in line (intake). Rotate the motor in the direction of rotation until the exhaust valve for that cylinder just begins to open. Repeat the above adjustment procedure.

Repeat the process for the remaining cylinders.

Summary:

Adjust the exhaust as the Intake is almost closed

Adjust the intake as the exhaust just starts to open
Posted By: mopar346

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 04:14 AM

Cant swear to the type but I beleive they are stock style (can with the car when I bought it, no box, short block asseook it mbled, I just took it apart to check and clean everything, been sitting awhile). They have never been run and not pumped up, I considered priming and spinning the engine to try to pump them up but I cant see that it would help me.I know what you mean about the finger roll being deceiving at times, depending on the lifter they can bleed off pretty quickly.

So if I understand you correctly, tighten them to barely contact the pnucher and tighten them 3/4 of a turn and lock them down and I will be in the set 'em and forget 'em crowd.

Thanks a lot folks, that makes me feel better.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 04:26 AM

I wiggle the pushrod up & down slightly till I just get to zero play then additionally tighten down the amt of preload I want & 3/4 turn sounds good
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 05:01 AM

Quote:

I wiggle the pushrod up & down slightly till I just get to zero play then additionally tighten down the amt of preload I want & 3/4 turn sounds good




That's how I do it too. Lift up/down until you don't feel any play in the pushrod between the lifter and rocker, then another 1/2-3/4 turn and lock it down
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 06:50 AM

On a all iron cold motors (heads and blocks) with hydraulic lifters and adjustable rocker arms like yours I like and use between 1/4 to 1/2 turn preload from zero I have seen recommendations from some of the cam grinders to look for .015 preload cold on a all iron motor between the lifter cup and the retaining ring on top of the lifters when adjusted cold with the intake off
Posted By: The Sphinx

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 04:50 PM

with the side of my finger I spin the push rod until I feel resistance. Then 3/4 turn and lock em down. Never had a problem.
Posted By: fastmark

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 05:18 PM

You said something just does not feel right? Well, I've built several T/A engines and several other 340 Hyd cam adjustable rockers combinations and here is something you really need to check.I have found that when you surface the heads, deck the block, do a valve job or especially a combination of these, it throws off the push rod geometry of these engines. The stock factory push rods for a T/A engines are right on the verge of being to long from the factory. You do any of these things in a normal rebuild, and you will have the cup end of the push rod interfere with the bottom of the rocker!

I had a bud who had a T/A engine built buy his local sprint car engine builder. He could not wait for me to build it. I gave this same warning before the engine was assembled and got a " I know what I'm doing response". The completed engine ran like crap and the lifters rattled all the time. My bud was even warned by the engine builder to " do not let Mark mess with it because HE had the correct pre-load on the lifters". After several months of the " I did it right" from the engine builder, my bud finally asked me to look at it. Yes, some of the push rods were hitting the rockers and still had too much pre-load. A new set of push rods and 1/2 turn of preload and it ran properly. I have found that Isky makes a push rod that is a little shorter than the stock push rods and works great. It is either 1309 or 1310, if my memory serves me correctly. One is hyd and one is for solid lifters. If your adjusters don't have a couple of threads showing below the rockers, then they may be too long.

Just a warning from an experience T/A builder.
Posted By: mopar346

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 05:41 PM

Quote:

You said something just does not feel right? Well, I've built several T/A engines and several other 340 Hyd cam adjustable rockers combinations and here is something you really need to check.I have found that when you surface the heads, deck the block, do a valve job or especially a combination of these, it throws off the push rod geometry of these engines. The stock factory push rods for a T/A engines are right on the verge of being to long from the factory. You do any of these things in a normal rebuild, and you will have the cup end of the push rod interfere with the bottom of the rocker!

I had a bud who had a T/A engine built buy his local sprint car engine builder. He could not wait for me to build it. I gave this same warning before the engine was assembled and got a " I know what I'm doing response". The completed engine ran like crap and the lifters rattled all the time. My bud was even warned by the engine builder to " do not let Mark mess with it because HE had the correct pre-load on the lifters". After several months of the " I did it right" from the engine builder, my bud finally asked me to look at it. Yes, some of the push rods were hitting the rockers and still had too much pre-load. A new set of push rods and 1/2 turn of preload and it ran properly. I have found that Isky makes a push rod that is a little shorter than the stock push rods and works great. It is either 1309 or 1310, if my memory serves me correctly. One is hyd and one is for solid lifters. If your adjusters don't have a couple of threads showing below the rockers, then they may be too long.

Just a warning from an experience T/A builder.



Thank you, I was watching for that because I have seen it before on solid engines. The machine work was done before me but none of the receipt indicate resurfacing but that was 25 years after birth so who knows. The push rods are also new and unidentified but appear chrome moloy. The intake push rods are fine due to the angle, the exhaust ones are tighter but I think still have plenty of room. I have watched it through the motion and it seems OK. I may hook up a starter and take it through the motion faster and then pull a couple to look for contact. A great caution though so thanks again.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 05:50 PM

Quote:

On a all iron cold motors (heads and blocks) with hydraulic lifters and adjustable rocker arms like yours I like and use between 1/4 to 1/2 turn preload from zero I have seen recommendations from some of the cam grinders to look for .015 preload cold on a all iron motor between the lifter cup and the retaining ring on top of the lifters when adjusted cold with the intake off



I use 0.010" or less cold with iron.
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/16/13 08:49 PM

The first and the most important thing when adjusting your lifters/rocker arms is make sure that you have the motor @TDC (Top Dead Center). DAMHIK this but I learned the hard way and it caused me to have to replace my lifters. You may think it is at TDC by using the scale on the damper when in actuality are out 180 degrees and then all kinds of things start to happen. I am a Hughes Engines believer and purchaser so I follow their recommendations to the letter. Comp Cams has a very good step by step procedure as does Hughes. Take your time and have a check list with the proper sequencing for adjusting the Rockers. And it also helps if you have a second set of hands and eyes...DAMHIK this either....Good luck and keep us posted....
Posted By: buildanother

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/17/13 02:44 AM

That's it. TDC means Top Dead Center, not top dead center cyl firing #1. It's up to the person doing the adjustment to make sure it's on the firing stroke. As most here know, the #6 cyl is on top dead center the same time cyl #1 is. So when lining up timing mark on balancer, just because #1 is on top dead center, it does not mean that the cam lobes are away from lifter bottoms. If the piston is on top it's on top dead center whether the valves are overlapping or not.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/17/13 03:11 AM

If the intake is off & if the lobes on #6 cyl are "up" partway then I know I am on the "right" TDC (#1 compression). If the intake is on I move the crank a bit back & forth on either side of TDC & if the #1 cyls' rockers do not move then that also tells me that I am on the "right" TDC (#1 compression)
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/17/13 08:54 PM

Both the last 2 posts are spot dead on... Funny though you can also get confuse as to what is TDC when using the key way for the distributor on the drive gear. BB's you must be parallel center and SB the key way will point to number one. Just remember to make sure that you are @ TDC and it will fire right up after adjusting the rockers....
Posted By: Magnum

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/18/13 05:36 AM

Quote:

I tried that this evening it didn't feel right, no real spring pressure.



I've ran the oil pump to make it very obvious.
Posted By: rarefish

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 01:51 AM

On my T/A motor, I ended up shimming the rocker shafts up about 0.025" to gain some push rod to rocker arm clearance. It was a lot cheaper than buying a set of custom length push rods.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 07:11 AM

Quote:

On my T/A motor, I ended up shimming the rocker shafts up about 0.025" to gain some push rod to rocker arm clearance. It was a lot cheaper than buying a set of custom length push rods.

Why wouldn't you use the adjusters on the rocker arms and turn them 1/4 to 1/3 turn out to get the clearances needed
Posted By: mopar346

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 02:44 PM

Sorry, I didn't check back, I adjusted them several days ago and used 3/4 of a turn after contact. To make sure I was at TDC I made sure the lifters were both at there lowest pointwith my fingers on them and then made my adjustment, turned 90* and duplicated the process. I tried to check for clearance bu the valve spring is much weaker than the lifer spring so no go, I'm gonna pump it up and check everything in a few days.

Thanks for all the input, Kevin
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 03:28 PM

Quote:

I tried to check for clearance bu the valve spring is much weaker than the lifer spring so no go,


Posted By: mopar346

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 05:01 PM

I don't follow you, are you suggesting some sort of caution. Valve springs have 300+ seat pressure un pumped lifters have 3 lbs not a surprise they collapse before any opening can occur.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 05:18 PM

Quote:

I don't follow you, are you suggesting some sort of caution. Valve springs have 300+ seat pressure un pumped lifters have 3 lbs not a surprise they collapse before any opening can occur.


But you said
Quote:

valve spring is much weaker than the lifer spring

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 06:05 PM

Ahh...........go catch AND yes that would be a problem if the valve springs were weaker than the lifter spring.
Posted By: rarefish

Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers? - 12/19/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

On my T/A motor, I ended up shimming the rocker shafts up about 0.025" to gain some push rod to rocker arm clearance. It was a lot cheaper than buying a set of custom length push rods.

Why wouldn't you use the adjusters on the rocker arms and turn them 1/4 to 1/3 turn out to get the clearances needed



Push rods become to long due to head and deck machining. As most people here have said that your adjustment should be 1/2 to 3/4 turns in from zero lash. So if zero lash starts with the adjuster ball hardly protruding from the rocker arm because of the push rod length. You will most likely find that you will have a push rod cup to rocker arm clearance problem when the valve opens.
Shimming the rocker arm shafts at the pedestals will allow the rocker arm adjuster ball to protrude more at zero lash. Then you add the 1/2 to 3/4 turns in of adjustment. Hopefully will have gained the clearance you need when the valve opens.
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