How much $$$ to rewire a car?

Posted By: roe

How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 03:33 PM

First, how much would you expect to pay to have it done?

I have a 71 Satellite that I want to have completely rewired, and have some of the upgrades done to help with the the common problems with the charging systems on these cars. I have already run a heavy guage wire from alternator to battery, and installed a relay for my elctric fans and a voltmeter, and would like to keep those. I would also like to have the headlights, A/C,etc.. put on a relay. Does anyone know of reputable shops in the Orlando/Gainesville FL area or in the Killeen/Austin and maybe even Dallas or SanAntonio TX areas?

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 04:05 PM

that'd sure be a labor intensive deal. I'd see if you could find a local Mopar head that you trust & are comfortable with & work a deal with him to take care of it

Posted By: VS29H0B

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 04:16 PM

Quote:

that'd sure be a labor intensive deal. I'd see if you could find a local Mopar head that you trust & are comfortable with & work a deal with him to take care of it

I agree with this recommendation. This may not be that convenient, but ChallengerGary on this board is south of you and does excellent work at about $25/30 hour. He may be able to do this at a reasonable price. PM him, and even if he declines, ask if he can recommend someone.

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 05:03 PM

If I was going to re-wire a car I would have to look at it and discuss it with you.

Some important things to look at are.

1. Do you want all new wiring or fix, repair, and upgrade existing wiring. Replacing wiring can go two ways. All new harnesses or build them from scratch. Building them from scratch is not what I suggest for a car with readily available harnesses. Too many connectors, sockets, wrapping etc needs to be included plus the myriad of colored wiring to make it professional. I would only suggest building a harness in specialty applications. Racecar, streetrod, kitcar, or cars with no available harnesses like a 60's rambler.

2. If you want a fix, repair, and upgrade to existing wiring what does the current wiring look like? The whole harness needs to be inspected and the dash/engine harnesses unwrapped to inspect it right. Rat's nest repairs, cut chaffed wires, etc need to be removed and repaired correctly. Solder only no crimps, bulkhead terminals replaced but how are the bulkhead connectors?

3. What kind of upgrades? Halogen lights on relay's? 100,000 giga-what ear bleed stereo? Alarm system? Electronic engine like a stock modern Hemi? Battery cutout? electronic ignition? LED lights (Dash, marker & Taillights)? Foot dimmer switch, Door switches, etc are they good/bad? Do you want to replace (Save trouble later) or just check (Save money now)?
I have had good outcomes with old Mopars by rebuilding the harnesses and adding upgrades to the main power circuits.
a. Fusible links at the Alternator & Starter relay connections,
b. straight wire or bulkhead bypass for the two main power wires from dash to engine compartment,
c. bumping the main power wires to 10 gage,
d. soldering the power wires to the ignition switch instead of using the under dash connector.
e. Replacing the terminals in the bulkhead connector, headlight, wiper, & heater switches.

Good fuse blocks are the sticking point on our old cars. Often a harness is needed to repair bad fuse blocks. They are integrated into the harness. it's more than the plastic block that often gets charred. You need to replace the terminals in the block which is a problem. They are sorta integral to the harness.

Also consider replacing the fan motor for the heat/AC. They often are old and pull so much current they overload the switches & fuses.

If you are replacing switches what kind of quality? Cheap china switches or expensive NOS/OEM switches?

Depending on how you want it done it could be hundreds or thousands.

If you have time and another daily driver it's not a bad time to learn wiring.

Posted By: TJP

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 05:31 PM

4-6K depending on choices. IE: stock or updated, how many aftermarket accessories etc.

I would strongly encourage you to stay away from painless kits.

It is a very labor intensive job to do CORRECTLY

The harnesses that we do will last as long as the originals did if not longer

Posted By: moper

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 07:56 PM

i charge by the hour for it... Some good advantages to upgrading to a power center like the Ram trucks had (anything with a Magnum V-8). Then you have a lot of relays, power and ground buss, etc to work with and it's relatively easy to make look clean. It takes a long time to do a nice job and you need to know a bit about electrical systems to do it well. I think the last one I did was to upgrade and get the car set for high amperage alternator, fans, AC, ignition, HID headlights, etc. and it was close to 40 hours.

Posted By: gtx6970

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 08:01 PM

Quote:

4-6K depending on choices. IE: stock or updated, how many aftermarket accessories etc.

It is a very labor intensive job to do CORRECTLY

The harnesses that we do will last as long as the originals did if not longer

If your just dropping off a running car then want to come back once finished and pick up a running car I think this is in the ballpark.

Like mentioned this would be extremly labor intensive.

Also, if you buy every harness avail , you will be in the $1000-$1200 range in minutes just in parts.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 08:08 PM

Can't you buy every harness you need? I know they make them for 68-70 b-bodys. I pretty much did this car. It came w/ all new harnesses (uninstalled) they only one that was in the car was the one from the fire wall back to the rear. Eveything wlse I hung myself. The bigest PITA was the steering column harness. The dash harness led me to get reading glasses and I had to adjust the engine harness to BB from SB, but other than that it just took time. Of course it helped that I had no interior or heat/ac box to mess with.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 08:35 PM

Get a service manual and have at it...

Get replacement harnesses;decades-old wiring needs to go...

If yer electrically-challenged, get some help...

We're talking 40 year-old OEM auto wiring, not a computer data-center...

4k???

LMMJAO...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 08:40 PM

Quote:

Get a service manual and have at it...

Get replacement harnesses;decades-old wiring needs to go...

If yer electrically-challenged, get some help...

We're talking 40 year-old OEM auto wiring, not a computer data-center...

ANFW I'd even THINK about shelling out 4k...

no need for a manual, I printed out a color diagram here (tech section) worked great. You almost don't need it..if you buy the correct harness as the lines/wires pretty much line up and will only plug into the slots they need to go. Now if you want to create an entire harness from scratch that's a entire differnt ball of wax.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 08:43 PM

I think a lot depends on what your ultimate goal is ... a stock-type upgrade or a full custom job.

If you plan to use the original bulkhead connector then it can be tackled yourself in sections i.e. firewall forward, etc.. If that's the case, get all your relays, etc. mounted where you want them then start with each individual circuit back to the bulkhead. Do up some drawings so you can work out the runs to be tidy and follow the same path. Test each circuit as you do it to ensure there are no shorts, etc.. Its time-consuming but not rocket science.

Take a look at some of the stuff these guys offer:
http://www.madelectrical.com/

Posted By: moper

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 09:24 PM

Quote:

Get a service manual and have at it...

Get replacement harnesses;decades-old wiring needs to go...

If yer electrically-challenged, get some help...

We're talking 40 year-old OEM auto wiring, not a computer data-center...

4k???

LMMJAO...

It all depends on what the end goal is. It's more like going from a switchboard someone else designed to a data center you have to design if the goal is to modernize and retrofit. There's a lot of upgrading to be done if the goal is modern electronics and accessory load and it's easy to make the situation worse. The FSM isn't worth much other than circuit identification at that point.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/06/13 09:58 PM

I think he's stated what he's after...

And it ain't 4k worth of work...

Posted By: carhunter

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 01:41 AM

I had my 70 rr done about 3 yrs. ago,a local mopar club member that does this on the side charged me 550.00 for rewiring mine front to back.He came to my house and it took 2 days.I bought the dash harness from year one and the engine bay and truck from evans. I think all the wiring ran about 750.00.total was about 1300.00.I thought that was a good deal.The wiring harness I bought were all color coded exactly like the original,no cutting of any.year one has 30% off sale right now.do not buy painless it's cheaper but there's a reason.

Posted By: west

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 04:05 AM

Quote:

4-6K depending on choices. IE: stock or updated, how many aftermarket accessories etc.

I would strongly encourage you to stay away from painless kits.

It is a very labor intensive job to do CORRECTLY

If you ever need any work done be sure to give me a call.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 04:22 AM

Quote:

I had my 70 rr done about 3 yrs. ago,a local mopar club member that does this on the side charged me 550.00 for rewiring mine front to back.He came to my house and it took 2 days.I bought the dash harness from year one and the engine bay and truck from evans. I think all the wiring ran about 750.00.total was about 1300.00.I thought that was a good deal.The wiring harness I bought were all color coded exactly like the original,no cutting of any.year one has 30% off sale right now.do not buy painless it's cheaper but there's a reason.

Sounds like you got charged $550 to install a premade harnesses.

The OP does not want stock replacement type wiring. You might be able to take a stock repro harness, modify it to meet his needs and be done. But what he wants is a custom job. Which means it needs to be designed, thought out and additional parts are required.

I suppose one could just go on over to HD pick up a 1000ft roll of red THHN and a couple boxes of Stakons and call it good.

But if you want a professional job done properly and designed to last you ain't doing for cheap, not even if you do it yourself. $1500 in parts/tools, assuming all new OEM style harnesses to start with.

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 05:17 AM

Quote:

i charge by the hour for it... Some good advantages to upgrading to a power center like the Ram trucks had (anything with a Magnum V-8). Then you have a lot of relays, power and ground buss, etc to work with and it's relatively easy to make look clean. It takes a long time to do a nice job and you need to know a bit about electrical systems to do it well. I think the last one I did was to upgrade and get the car set for high amperage alternator, fans, AC, ignition, HID headlights, etc. and it was close to 40 hours.

Awesome suggestion.

I have a side question for you Moper: what about the first-gen, mid 80's Rams for wiring sources? Just going on what I've read on here indicates that some of the short-falls of the 70's cars was addressed on the trucks.............

Thanks!

Posted By: roe

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 07:05 AM

Whoa man. Some of you guys make this seem like its a walk in the park. If I didnt say it before, let me say that electrical stuff scares that crap outta me. I've been able to pick up small stuff like adding in the relay for the electric fans and doing the alternator to battery wire, and install voltmeter. I also pulled apart my bulkhead connector and cleaned everything and coated in di-electric grease. But I've tried looking at the circuit diagrams when I read other posts on the subject, and that crap confuses me. Im really hesitant about doing it myself and maybe screwing something up. Run the risk of burning down my car.

What I would be looking for is pretty much a full stock replacement with maybe a little larger wires than stock. (are the kits stock or larger than stock wire size?). Then I'd want a few upgrades like relays for: electric fans, A/C,. I have an alarm system and stereo system on it as well.

Is it really as easy as ordering a couple of different harnesses and slowly going through everything? I would feel a lot more comfortable about doing it myself if I had someone who knows electrical to help me through it.

Posted By: roe

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 07:14 AM

Also, I dont have a manual but will look in the teck sections for the one someone said they printed off. For a 71 B body with A/C, how many harnessess am I looking at needing? What are they?

Thanks
roe

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 01:24 PM

Quote:

Also, I dont have a manual but will look in the teck sections for the one someone said they printed off. For a 71 B body with A/C, how many harnessess am I looking at needing? What are they?

Thanks
roe

Not sure on a 71, but on 70-back you have the bulk head, up front you have the wiper harness, engine harness, light harness, starter relay and assoiated wires, under dash harness, steering column harness with fuze box, then you have the harness that runs things like dome light, console lights, and harness to the rear.
Why do you want to replace yours? Is it messing up?

Posted By: roe

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 01:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Also, I dont have a manual but will look in the teck sections for the one someone said they printed off. For a 71 B body with A/C, how many harnessess am I looking at needing? What are they?

Thanks
roe

Not sure on a 71, but on 70-back you have the bulk head, up front you have the wiper harness, engine harness, light harness, starter relay and assoiated wires, under dash harness, steering column harness with fuze box, then you have the harness that runs things like dome light, console lights, and harness to the rear.
Why do you want to replace yours? Is it messing up?

I think mainly because I have added upgrades like a stereo system, alarm, electric fans, will be adding electric fuel pump, and want to put headlights on a relay. I also have the mid 80's IIRC alternator that is higher output than stock. I do have the amplifier and the electric fans running directly off the alternator though. I dont like the mess that I see under the dash.

I guess I'd be happy with redoing just the underdash portion, and then making the performance upgrades like running the solid wire thru the bulkhead for the main power wire.

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 04:47 PM

Quote:

But I've tried looking at the circuit diagrams when I read other posts on the subject, and that crap confuses me.

Understandable. Think of electricity like water it flows along the wires in the diagram. it has to flow from one side of the battery to the other or it doesn't flow at all. For some people that helps make sense. The wires in the diagram are labeled with something like V3-18DBL* or BLK/W.
V3 is the number so you can trace it to the other end.
18DBL is 18 gauge, dark blue color
* is on wires with a stripe (Tracer) on them. No * means a solid color.
Those marked BLK/W are simply color codes and in this case is a black wire with white tracer stripe.
You get the idea, hope it helps.

Quote:

What I would be looking for is pretty much a full stock replacement with maybe a little larger wires than stock. (are the kits stock or larger than stock wire size?).

I am pretty sure the replacement kits are stock size wires to be correct for restoration purposes.

Quote:

Then I'd want a few upgrades like relays for: electric fans, A/C,. I have an alarm system and stereo system on it as well.

I would evaluate your stock harness first. Decide if your going to use existing wiring or replace then wire in the upgrades.

Quote:

Is it really as easy as ordering a couple of different harnesses and slowly going through everything?

In your case there will be engine, dash, front body, transmission, A/C, and rear body wiring harnesses. I believe I remember correctly.

In your case the front body and rear body (all your outside lights) may not be available because it's a 4 door and they may not make one if they are different than the popular to restore 2 doors.

The only hard part of replacing the stock harness is the dash. You can replace it in the car by removing the cluster but it is much easier to pull the dash.

I can pull the dash in about 1/2 an hour but I have done dozens of them. Take your time and it will be out in about an hour maybe two if you get a sandwich break and it saves lots of work in the long run.

Quote:

I would feel a lot more comfortable about doing it myself if I had someone who knows electrical to help me through it.

Too bad you don't live closer, I'd help. Maybe somebody close to you can lend a hand.

Can you post pick of the problem spots you are worried about in your harness?

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 06:47 PM

Quote:

Is it really as easy as ordering a couple of different harnesses and slowly going through everything? I would feel a lot more comfortable about doing it myself if I had someone who knows electrical to help me through it.

Tracing circuits through the diagrams in the FSM is good exercise fer yer eyeballs...

Posted By: bboogieart

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 07:02 PM

Roe,
I was hesitant to do wiring myself. Thing is, I do as much of my own work as possible. I had bad luck with mechanics when I started driving. So I figured if they can do it, so can I, and went to the library. It's easier now as you couldn't take the books out of the library. I soon learned I could save a LOT of money by doing things myself. I have learned a bit from trial and error. Just do one thing at a time and pay attention to what you are doing. Take notes if it helps. The work you have done so far tells me you can do it.

Posted By: roe

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 07:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

But I've tried looking at the circuit diagrams when I read other posts on the subject, and that crap confuses me.

Understandable. Think of electricity like water it flows along the wires in the diagram. it has to flow from one side of the battery to the other or it doesn't flow at all. For some people that helps make sense. The wires in the diagram are labeled with something like V3-18DBL* or BLK/W.
V3 is the number so you can trace it to the other end.
18DBL is 18 gauge, dark blue color
* is on wires with a stripe (Tracer) on them. No * means a solid color.
Those marked BLK/W are simply color codes and in this case is a black wire with white tracer stripe.
You get the idea, hope it helps.

That does help. Thanks. Also, if it will help you guys point me in the right direction, I will tell you guys everything I have done, and plan on doing.

Im not really concered with the rear harness or the headlights/side marker lights, dome light, fender mounted turn signals. With the exception of faulty headlight switch that just went on the fritz, it all works fine, even the floor mounted toggle for bright/dim. I'll be changeing the headlight switch out.

Have done:
-2 OEM electric fans from the j/y that run off of a relay and battery power
-heavy guage wire from alt to battery
-Alternator upgrade to 65amp version
-Stereo system with flip out screen/1000watt kenwood amp and 2 12" subs in the trunk, 2 6x9's, 2 6.5"
-Amplifier hooked up to positive side of battery
-installed voltmeter
-Car alarm
-guages(oil pressure, water temp, rpm, voltmeter) set wired into the dimmer switch
-clean di-elect grease all bulkhead connections

Plan to do
-new roller magnum based 408 stroker (currently being built)
-keep pertronix ignition in parts house dizzy
-install electric fuelpump
-install relay for headlights (do I need to since they arent dim after the wire from alternator to battery)
-replace main power wire at bulkhead connection with solid wire straight through.
-get A/C and heat functional
-maybe install power locks on front doors

I think a lot of the wiring under hood is needing replaced. Its old and brittle after years of heat cycling. But most of the rest of the car is still going strong. No issues to speak of. What would you guys recommend?

Posted By: roe

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 07:30 PM

Quote:

Roe,
I was hesitant to do wiring myself. Thing is, I do as much of my own work as possible. I had bad luck with mechanics when I started driving. So I figured if they can do it, so can I, and went to the library. It's easier now as you couldn't take the books out of the library. I soon learned I could save a LOT of money by doing things myself. I have learned a bit from trial and error. Just do one thing at a time and pay attention to what you are doing. Take notes if it helps. The work you have done so far tells me you can do it.

Yeah, Im the same way with mechanical stuff, total confidence there. But the wiring stuff scares me. Im getting a little more confident though, now that you guys who felt the same as me are telling me that you did your own wiring. Maybe I'll order the engine harness and the dash harness and have at it. While the dash is out would be a good time to replace the heater core and blower motor...

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 08:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Roe,
While the dash is out would be a good time to replace the heater core and blower motor...

Rad shop can check-out yer heater core...Might be OK...

Pulled both my heater blower motor, and wiper-motor down and inspected...

Both were OK...And 20+ years later, they both still live...

Posted By: dOoC

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 11:04 PM

Speal chuck Rosey .. It is spaeled yurr !

Posted By: pink68

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/07/13 11:29 PM

Do it yourself. I just rewired the entire front end of a 70 Cuda with M&H harnesses from year one. The harnesses for the entire front end (bulkhead forward) were $350 after 30%off discounts which YO seems to be running non-stop right now. This also inlcuded the "inside dash" AC harness which I haven't done yet. I am thinking about buying the inside dash harness and rear taillight harness just to finish the job. The dash part is more difficult but the engine side was very very simple.

Jim

Posted By: carhunter

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/08/13 12:59 AM

Posted By: Wagonmaster

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/08/13 03:42 AM

I was spooked of wiring until I did my first wiring job. Just like a flowchart. Do one circuit, then another. Before too long, you're done. Just break it down into many small jobs, not one giant job. The giant job is intimidating.

If I can do this, anyone can.

Attached picture 7916120-DSC00251.JPG

Posted By: roadrunner69s

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/08/13 03:53 AM

Wiring scared me too. For years I would never do anything but an engine bay wiring harness. But then my ignition wire fried through the firewall and under the dash. It was either have someone do this for me for who knows how much money or figure it out. I figured to do it right, get rid of the entire 30 yr old harness. Why leave other weak links behind?

I had a wiring diagram already. Bought a Dash Harness from a repro shop that was exactly like the orig for $650. New engine harness was around $100. I spent 3-4 hours per night over the next week slowly pulling out the harness and taping/labeling both ends. Then I laid out the new harness and taped it up for installation. It took a week and about 20 hours. But I figured it out and became quite good at reading the wiring schematic in the end. It's only DC power after all with 2 wires per component. The only issue I had was with the main connector plug into the firewall. I got my mechanic to come over and help me out for 30 minutes on that. I didn't do anything inside the steering column though...just up to the horn relay and blinkers. The cause of my "fry" job was some poor soldering some bozo did on the ignition wire as it entered the main plug. They could have properly replaced the wire instead of trying to solder weak strands together. The solder cracked and formed a high resistance connection....then came smoke and fire.

In the end I was sort of surprised how technically simple the task was. It was just very time consuming and required attention to detail. I was a lot younger, more flexible, and with better vision when I did that job. Would be a lot more time consuming today. Doing the mods you suggested raises it to another level.

Posted By: markz528

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/09/13 11:55 PM

Whatever you do, make sure you have quality wire installed. Under no circumstances do you want PVC insulation in your car. Puts off deadly poisonous gases when burns.

You want a true automotive wire with at minimum XLPE insulation. You can get better aircraft wire, but I don't believe it is necessary.

This is what I recommend. Its affordable and a reasonable choice......

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/WX16-9/16GA-SXL-WHITE-AUTOMOTIVE/

Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: How much $$$ to rewire a car? - 11/10/13 12:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

that'd sure be a labor intensive deal. I'd see if you could find a local Mopar head that you trust & are comfortable with & work a deal with him to take care of it

I agree with this recommendation. This may not be that convenient, but ChallengerGary on this board is south of you and does excellent work at about $25/30 hour. He may be able to do this at a reasonable price. PM him, and even if he declines, ask if he can recommend someone.

if you can find someone for double that it would still be a smokin deal.