Moparts
440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara
Posted By: keith airgrabber
440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 04:01 AM
Leave the stock crank in my 440. 3.75 stroke.Or buy an eagle crank and stroke 440 to 505 cubes and 4.25 stroke. It is going to have max wedge heads and crossram and stock cast iron max headers. 9.5 to one compression. I should just do the 505 cubes .I think it will be more fun. What do you guys suggest?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 04:05 AM
Quote:
I should just do the 505 cubes .I think it will be more fun. What do you guys suggest?
The 505 cubes. My next one will be a 535 
(30 over/4.5" stroke). No one that I have ever spoken with has lamented after the fact that they just have too much power
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 04:12 AM
awesome, I am gonna do it. I just never had a stroked motor and just wanted too know what some of you dudes thought. It is going to be a max wedge clone car. The car will appear stock. But it should be a beast I hope. I have both sets 0f 3447 carbs or 3705 carbs. Will the larger 3705 carbs be better for the 505 cubes? I would think so.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 04:20 AM
Your my kind of guy
. I would think the larger carbs would definitely be the way to go. I am going with some super stealths (they're bare but only $100 more than complete regular stealths & I already have a set of 2.14/1.81's sittin on the shelf. They do need offset rockers on the intakes & an external pickup for the pan which ain't no big deal
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 04:42 AM
Quote:
awesome, I am gonna do it. I just never had a stroked motor and just wanted too know what some of you dudes thought. It is going to be a max wedge clone car. The car will appear stock. But it should be a beast I hope. I have both sets 0f 3447 carbs or 3705 carbs. Will the larger 3705 carbs be better for the 505 cubes? I would think so.
Dude, you do know that the rear tires are the limiting factor on how much power you can put to the ground, correct? 
I've owned and raced several Max wedge cars over the years, a couple of Street Hemi cars also 
. I ran both size carbs, the 3447 on the M.W. Stocker and the 3705 on the M.W. bracket car, the bracket car had a 440 short block and it had a full 12 point cage so it weighed about 250 lbs more than the stocker, it had a Dana 70 in it with big tires and wheels on the rear, it was right at .2 ET quicker and 2.0 mph faster than the stocker 
They where both fun to drive My last pump gas street and strip car was a 512 C.I. 400 stroker that started off with a set of ported big valve 906 iron heads and a stock type low deck six pak, it ended up with a set of Indy SR heads with M.W. ports and a single Dominator 1050 CFM carb. on it, it was a flat out blast to drive 
If your going to run stock type iron heads don't shoot for or use more than 9.5 to 1 compression 
My 512 C.i. pump gas stroker made 612 Hp at 5600 RPM and 644 Ft lbs of torque at 4500 RPM on CA pump swill back in 2003 with 9 1/4 to 1 true compression ratio with the 906 heads and six pak, yours will make quiet a bit more HP and torque than that with the M.W. heads and intake and carbs, trust me on that Get ready to live your dream or be scared to death 
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 05:24 AM
Definetly go for the cubes. I did as I made my 440 a 493 with just a 4.15 crank. And I tried to make my car look like a Max Wedge from the 60's. I want my eng to look close to a Max Wedge as I painted it orange but I only run one carb on an Indy dual plane intake right now. But I love it and I raced in a NSS class two weeks ago at the track. And most of the time the hood is closed so then it looks just like a Max Wedge. Ron
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 05:33 AM
Here is my eng. If I go to a crossram it would look real close to a Max Wedge and might fool some people.
But it drives and runs so nice with the single 850 DP and Indy intake. It will run 10.70's driving it to the track on pump thru the pipes. I have a blast driving the car. Ron
Posted By: Adam71Charger
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 10:46 AM
Stroke it.
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 12:41 PM
I be strokin. Hey that red 63 is awesome. Going to be using a Miloden circle track pan. I don't want it hanging down too far. Heard I will have to notch my K-member. I would rather just beat my pan in a little.
Posted By: 80fbody
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 01:22 PM
Don't want to rain on the parade but make sure your heads can support the cubes. There have been a ton of disappointed guys with 500+ inch strokers. There's at least one or two a week lately. Everytime it seems they build a monster bottom end and think the same heads that worked on there stock stroke should be just fine on the new motor. Do your homework. You can easily make 600+hp with stock stroke, less cash, your heads, etc.
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 05:42 PM
Quote:
I be strokin. Hey that red 63 is awesome. Going to be using a Miloden circle track pan. I don't want it hanging down too far. Heard I will have to notch my K-member. I would rather just beat my pan in a little.
Thank you for the kind words. 
I am using the Moroso oil pan and it has good clearence as the angle of the pic makes it look less but its a good 5 to 6 inches of room. And it fit in the K-frame with no cutting or modifying anything as the eng dropped right in. Been driving on the street since 2006 and the pan has never hit anything. Ron
Posted By: NOrrTH
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 06:46 PM
So the only thing you need to stroke a stock 440 is a bigger crank?
I just rebuilt my 440 with stealth heads, cam, CH4B and 800cfm and am now wondering if I should have got a bigger crank if that's all it took?
Posted By: 65 Hemi
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 07:07 PM
Quote:
So the only thing you need to stroke a stock 440 is a bigger crank?
I just rebuilt my 440 with stealth heads, cam, CH4B and 800cfm and am now wondering if I should have got a bigger crank if that's all it took?
You would need pistons with the wrist pin higher in the the piston(stroker piston).
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 07:58 PM
Quote:
Leave the stock crank in my 440. 3.75 stroke.Or buy an eagle crank and stroke 440 to 505 cubes and 4.25 stroke. It is going to have max wedge heads and crossram and stock cast iron max headers. 9.5 to one compression. I should just do the 505 cubes .I think it will be more fun. What do you guys suggest?
Depends on your end goal.If you are going to run it hard,maybe do a little racing fine,if you want to just drive it and make it look pretty,put your money somewhere else ! I have a few friends that have them just for the "I've got a stroker wow " ! No interest but that's just me .
Posted By: AndyF
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 09:16 PM
If you're going to be rebuilding the engine anyway then stroking it doesn't add much to the total bill. You need new pistons anyway so that is no additional cost. If you need a new crank then you're dead even, if your old crank was still good then you're only out the difference of a new crank vs. rebuilding your old crank. So maybe $300 difference for the extra cubic inches.
Adding the extra inches will lower the torque peak of the engine which is good for a street car. It might not go any faster at the track, but it will give you a nice thump in the back when you jump on it going up a freeway on-ramp.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 09:24 PM
Quote:
If you need a new crank then you're dead even, if your old crank was still good then you're only out the difference of a new crank vs. rebuilding your old crank. So maybe $300 difference for the extra cubic inches.
Haven't completely reread the OP info to see if he's starting with a cast or forged crank. If cast, time to upgrade, go stroker for no extra cost. If forged, resell to a guy that wants to cut it down for a 400/451 build.
Strokers/torque rule on the street! 
Posted By: 67Satty
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 10/31/13 09:39 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I was racing against a guy with a full interior '62 Belvedere a few weeks ago. He had a stock stroke 413 with max wedge heads, and the A&A repro crossram. He was running 7.35s all day long in the heat on 9 inch slicks. 1/4 mile times would be like mid-11s.
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 04:08 AM
I am kind of on the fence about doing it now. It will only grow 65 cubes and that doesn't really seem like too much. But will there be a difference in rpm. between the two? The stroker motor will not rev as high will it? And I need a high rev to get the free supercharging from the max wedge intake and breathing system. Maybe I am looking into it too far. My car is a 4-speed -23 spline 8.75 axle 3:23 suregrip. And I want too keep my dog dish hubcaps and 14 inch wheels on Stroke it or not I know It will be easy to turn those tires over. I am not going to be going to the track with it. I just like to burn up the back roads Dukes of Hazzard style around my house and occasionally wax a mustang or ricegrinder or two. If I stroke it with the Eagle crank I was told I will need a new flywheel. Is this the only item I will have to swap out for my 4-speed set up?
Posted By: Colin Frolick
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 06:29 AM
Add the stroke. You will enjoy the performance.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 06:33 AM
Trust me, 65 extra cubes is nothing to sneeze at. The reason the Max Wedge stuff needed to be spun up rpm wise to work was because it only had 426 CID of air to displace. 505 CID is gulping 79 cubes more air every rev so it will take much less RPM to keep the air in the induction system moving at the speed where it is efficient.
You can't buy gas that a stock Max Wedge would be happy on but a 505 at 9:1ish should make as much or more HP in a 3.23 gear happy rev range and all that extra torque that starts at just above idle will make it feel much bigger.
Just do it. You will have zero regrets.
Kevin
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 12:33 PM
O.K.So it won't rev up as much but I willl still have the max wedge majic?You only live once I guess. But did you see those tires I am running. I don't want to run huge meats out back. I really like the grandma look. Thanks guys. I just have never had a engine with that much power on tap. And want to be sure it will be reliable. And last me a long time.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 04:33 PM
You only need a new flywheel if you go with an 8 bolt crank. You can get a 6 bolt stroker crank if you want to keep your existing flywheel.
Posted By: Spaceman Spiff
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 04:44 PM
Make sure you have a good fuel system to support it. No use building it if it's going to starve for fuel and burn a piston.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 05:47 PM
Quote:
O.K.So it won't rev up as much ........ And want to be sure it will be reliable. And last me a long time.
It's not that it won't rev, but it really won't need to. If you built it with an Indy single-plane, and all the pieces to match, it would rev 7k+.
Reliable?? Rpm's mean higher stress on components. That's why strokers make sense for the street if set-up right.
Or just build a 440 and shred those skinny 14's all you want.
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 07:11 PM
I had a '64 Polara that was built with a 383. I put in a 440 and later wished I had put in a Low Deck motor. A stroked 383 or 400 would fit better (easier plug access), easier and cheaper to build (particularly using a 383 as the core would be cheaper than a 400) and the sleeper effect would be there
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 07:20 PM
Main thing with the low block (383-400) is that if he wants the Max Wedge look they dont make a crossram for the low deck. That one reason I went with the 440 block but I have no problems getting at my plugs or anything else for that matter. Ron
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 07:29 PM
My '64 did not have headers...it had the later '68 to 70 Magnum manifolds and it was easier to change the plugs from under the car
and if your not going to race it or show it and all you want to do is play with pony cars on back roads, why spend the money on the Max Wedge gear?
Posted By: Twostick
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 08:31 PM
Sounds like he already has or is running this stuff now.
Kevin
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 08:48 PM
He may have been collecting parts for a long time, too.
Here is a thought, build a stealthy stroker on a 383 block, use an aluminum intake painted engine color with an 800cfm Edelbrock (w/o E-brock sticker) single four barrel, stock looking painted air cleaner, Magnum manifolds to keep the noise down, serious hydraulic cam for power, hide the electronic ignition, keep your 14" tires & poverty caps and sell the Max Wedge stuff to put the money into the rebuild. That way you have reliability, long life, ease of maintenance... but what the heck do I know?!!! Please yourself.
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/01/13 10:34 PM
Quote:
My '64 did not have headers...it had the later '68 to 70 Magnum manifolds and it was easier to change the plugs from under the car
and if your not going to race it or show it and all you want to do is play with pony cars on back roads, why spend the money on the Max Wedge gear?
He did say he was going to use a crossram I believe. Even if he dont race some guys like the wow factor of the Max Wedge look when they pop the hood. I kinda went with the Max Wedge look but I could not really afford the crossram setup so I use a single carb intake as I figure I can go to the crossram later which I like that look. But it drives and runs so nice with the Indy dual plane intake and the 850 DP I use that for now I am sticking with that setup. I just tell people I got that rare factory option. After all the Nascar version of the Max Wedge had one carb. Ron
Posted By: Dabee
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 01:06 AM
I have a 511 stroker in my 69 Bee. It's a blast to drive, instant power. Just be careful driving a stroker on the street. Its hard to keep it hooked. The first day I drove mine on the street I almost lost it the first time I jumped on it from standing start, when I hit second under full power it went sideways. Now I get it rolling first then jump on it. On the track with DOT slicks it hooks good and runs 11.7. Not bad for a full interior , AC, PS, PB equipped 4,000 pound car. I say go for the big inches, you won't be sorry.
Posted By: DoubleD
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 02:34 AM
do it and enjoy - the cross ram is fun but not real street friendly with a 4-speed - i went to a modman in-line dual quad
Posted By: DoubleD
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 02:35 AM
be prepared for breaking everything in the drive line
Posted By: DoubleD
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 02:39 AM
Just in-case you were wondering - it looks pretty stock on the outside
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 03:39 AM
I say stroke it
I love my 493 and it's even more fun with a manual transmission. Like Andy says you don't need a new flywheel if you order a six bolt crank.
One thing I found too late with my Eagle crank was it wasn't drilled deep enough for my input shaft pilot. I had to whack about 1/2" off my brand new Richmond 5 speed input pilot
Gus
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 04:40 AM
Yeah, the whole task is to create a max wedge. I have been collecting everything I need for the last 5 years. And now my day has come to make my dream a reality. I love the look of the cast iron headers and crossram. I have read and collected every magazine article I could. Even the magazines from the early sixties. So there is no other option for me. I want the stock max look. This stroking idea just came about when my engine shop guy told me about it. He said as long as your buying forged pistons and rods. You might as well stroke it too. So I thought about it and said to myself. Moparts members will be able to help me decide. And for sure I have decided to stroke the engine. Sounds like everybody is on board with the idea. I just wonder if the 3447 carburators will pump enough fuel? I don't want a hole in my piston. Like someone mentioned. I do have a set of 3705 carbs I would have to rebuild.
Quote:
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 05:37 AM
I understand the problem now
You are sick, but then so am I!!!!
I think it is called Mopar Madness and it manifests itself in may ways, mostly in wanting the ability to demonstrate ridiculous horsepower to the unworthy to the detriment of tires and all things mechanical.
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 06:23 AM
I guess so. Makes sense to me.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 06:54 AM
Our work is done here...
Kevin
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 07:09 AM
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 09:00 PM
" It is going to have max wedge heads"
Those In and Ex ports are huge! Those heads will be perfect on a 500 plus cube engine. Cant go wrong with a quality stroker kit. The piston and rod assemblies with a quality kit weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than stock rod and piston assemblies. My brother had stock rods with old reliable TRW forged pistons on them in his old school 440. The Arias piston and (don't remember the brand of rods) after market rod was astonishingly lighter than the old reliable tuff. Youll have a big cube fast revving reliable monster!!!!!
Maybe I didn't catch it but are you going with a roller cam? Expensive but worth it.
Posted By: dynamite
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/02/13 09:58 PM
I'm stroked and love it..what a difference it makes over the 3.75 stroke ..
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Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/03/13 07:37 PM
I am going with a roller rocker set up. I did not pick a cam . Do I need a roller cam? The guy putting all my engine pieces together is going to pick a cam for my application. And I guess he will pick something good since he's built alot of mopar engines. I am going to assemble it all when all the machining and parts are together. That reminds me . I need tobuy a good timing chain too.
Posted By: keith airgrabber
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/03/13 07:40 PM
When it's all done. I can't wait too uncap my tti max exhaust and hear how it sounds.
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: 440 stroker or not ? 1964 polara - 11/03/13 10:15 PM
In my opinion if you can afford a roller cam do it. More power under the curve and no worries about oil zinc/sulfer content- ever.
