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Need some schooling on Holley carbs?

Posted By: Slant6pak

Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/19/13 09:33 PM

Hey guys,

Let me start off by apologizing for my carburetor ignorance. I was unfortunately born too late to have ever owned a daily driver with a carb. My personal experience is mostly limited to cursing Carter BBDs after they have been sitting long enough to empty the float bowls.

I'm working on 71' Road Runner clone that will be powered by (I hope) a healthy 383. I'm trying to build a bit of sleeper than looks fairly close to stock.

My current plan is to run a Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb. IIRC, all factory Mopar 4 barrel carbs were fairly small cfm-wise... 625-650 cfm??

What I'd like to do is buy a cheaper, second hand Holley and "build" a carb that looks fairly correct for a 71' 383 4-speed car.

My questions are:

What used Holley should I look for? I know they are numbered for different makes' linkage style.

Can anybody tell me what features I would find a 71' correct Holley? And can I add them to a A/M carb?

And last question... can somebody point in the right to direction to learn about any new upgrades that I should do for drive-ability, tuning and tolerance to modern gas?

Any help and guidance would be much appreciated
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/19/13 11:01 PM

There just was a thread on the visual & other differences between the OE/aftermarket holleys several weeks ago iirc. I'm not sure how to search for that. For an aftermarket Holley I'd want one of the clones that has adjustable systems that the OE ones did not have. Not sure if a person could get an OE one & rebuild it & use an aftermarket primary metering block with those adjustable air bleeds etc. I'm not into Holleys very much so my help/info is limited but here's a BTT for ya
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 01:11 AM

Clone? If it was me I would buy a new 800 Thunder AVS, bolt it on and not worry about it.

Sheldon
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 02:25 AM

Quote:

Clone?


One of the holley look alikes that's based on the holley system but has the multiple screw in air bleeds etc so you can dial in each system with an A/F meter. People that have went to em (& used the meter to dial em in) swear by em (compared to the older holleys)
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 02:31 AM

Quote:

Clone? If it was me I would buy a new 800 Thunder AVS, bolt it on and not worry about it.

Sheldon




I would like to stick with Holley carbs.... My 440 Ramcharger will be sporting a trio of them... So only buying jets and goodies for one style of carb would be a plus for me.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 02:34 AM

a 3310 will work ok.

If you can find one that has a secondary metering block, those are preferred. You can buy a conversion kit if it does not that uses jets instead of the metering plate system.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 02:36 AM

6 pak (2bbl) carbs are a different animal. I'm not sure what's available for them other than OE carbs or probably repro 6 pak carbs. Someone knowledgeable will help you there. EDIT Oh OK your saying you have a 6 pak in addition to the 71RR, I gotcha now. MORE EDIT It's likely that the clones use holley jets in the air bleeds etc
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 03:02 AM

My six pack for my truck has a hodge podge of OE carbs
Posted By: peabodyracing

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 02:03 PM

My advice is similar to previous postings; look for a list 3310 with the secondary metering block. Adding the block is straightforward if you can't locate one that already has it.

Spend a few minutes looking the carb over thoroughly before buying. I've seen base plates cracked, shaft's wobbling in the base plate, accelerator pump cover screws stripped out and junior high racer mods made to them which generally render them useless for a street car. A favorite seemed to be removing the choke assembly and sometimes milling down the air horn.

Rebuild kits are inexpensive and readily available. Go with the non stick gaskets though. Generally you shouldn't need to increase the accelerator pump. Stay with the vacuum secondary setup. Linkage and brackets available on line. I'm not an expert by any means but have been running these for years. Have only had one that would not work well and turned out to have a crack in the base plate I'd missed. Being up North ours have to be put away for winter. I've always used sea foam in the gas tank before storing and haven't had problems. No other fuel related issues I've run into. Lots of good books available on line if you're so motivated.

Many years ago I had an Offy 2 4 barrel setup with AFB's on my drag car and ran it like that for at least 4 years. On a whim I changed out the intake and put a stock 3310 on the car and first pass out it went 2 tenths of a second quicker than it ever had. Did I feel stupid.
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 03:51 PM

I am curious why the recommendation to convert the 3310s secondaries to the metering block?

The OP is an admitted novice on carbs. Adding the secondary block does add additional tuning capabilities to the carb, but for someone that does not even know the difference between a 4150 and a 4160, that may not be a good thing.

Besides, the 3310 may be the most popular Holley ever produced and the overwhelming majority have lacked the secondary metering block. Only the very first ones had it.

In my opinion, having a secondary metering block on a 3310 only adds expense and complexity that a beginner tuning a mild engine can't get enough advantages from to justify. Which is why Holley eliminated it many years ago on their most popular entry level model of carb.

One last thought here, weren't the original style of Holley's on the OP's car single inlet carbs? Unlike the dual inlet 3310 style? Point being that they look quite different.
Posted By: peabodyracing

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 05:25 PM

All valid points. I suggested the secondary block because of the OP's statement of a healthy 383. If he decided he needed a little more snort when getting into the secondaries it's simpler to increase jet sizes than figure out metering plates.

Certainly the dual inlet setup will not look oem. My thinking was the best fit for a novice. If I could figure one out certainly the OP could.
Posted By: a12superbee

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 08:36 PM

OP, buy this book,

https://www.google.com/search?q=super+tu...h=730&dpr=1

and no matter which holley box you use, you'll be able to make it work.
Posted By: cjbill

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 08:43 PM

Which book? That link brings up about 5 different books!
Posted By: a12superbee

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/20/13 08:52 PM

Different versions of the same book for the most part.
I have this one, once you know 'how' it works, getting good performance out of them is pretty easy.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/...ved=0CGIQ8wIwAg
Posted By: Michael Ecks

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/21/13 01:40 AM

Quote:

I am curious why the recommendation to convert the 3310s secondaries to the metering block?





I would also advise this, but with nothing in mind about tuning. I worked in a shop restoring carbs for a while. A lot of them seemed to have problems with metering plate warpage. Metering blocks had way fewer problems. This was one thing on my mind when I bought an actual Holley street avenger over other versions on the market.
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/22/13 01:33 AM

Thank you for the replies,

I'm gonna start with the book and go from there.
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/26/13 08:45 PM

Okay....

I ended up ordering 3 books on Holley carbs and have done some reading.

I now know the difference between a 4150 and a 4160, and I understand why the 3310 was also recommended.

But I have a new question... it seems that 383s came with 600 cfm carbs, did any Mopar engines use a factory Holley that was 750 cfm?

If so can anybody tell me the list #?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/26/13 09:08 PM

I'd think the holley on the 440 would be the largest but I doubt if it was 750 but wait & see what others say on that
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/26/13 11:23 PM

The OE Mopar carbs were small. But the factory had to contend with a lot of limiting factors. Timing curves, cam profiles, exhaust, etc all had to be less than optimum to let anybody with a driver's license to be able to floor it under almost any driving conditions.

Which is why bigger cams, hedders, re=curved distributors, al. intakes, and bigger carbs helped our Mopars.

It's not that the Mopar engineers didn't know what they were doing, it is just that they had a ton of constraints that you and I don't.

Throw the 750 on it and rock!
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/27/13 04:15 AM

Quote:

The OE Mopar carbs were small. But the factory had to contend with a lot of limiting factors. Timing curves, cam profiles, exhaust, etc all had to be less than optimum to let anybody with a driver's license to be able to floor it under almost any driving conditions.

Which is why bigger cams, hedders, re=curved distributors, al. intakes, and bigger carbs helped our Mopars.

It's not that the Mopar engineers didn't know what they were doing, it is just that they had a ton of constraints that you and I don't.

Throw the 750 on it and rock!




Yeah I know ... just brainstorming.

If I can snag a 3310 or 3310-1 (see I'm learning) I'm going to jump on it.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/28/13 05:22 PM

The original 780 cfm 3310 was stock on Z16 chevelles, that makes it being built as early as 1965. It will have little tabs on the secondary boosters for mixture distribution for the original engine's intake manifold. I believe they were made up until 1969. They also have downleg boosters and rear metering blocks. The 3310-1 is an aftermarket replacement carb and should have the same configuration. They were made into the mid-70s.
That makes both the 780s with rear metering blocks to be 39 years old or older.

Unless you are trying to get "period correct" I'd say chasing after a 3310 or 3310-1 is foolish. In all the years that it survived, it could have been screwed up in so many ways. Also, Holley has improved the metering over the years.

One option for you is to build your own out of a Proform center. It has a lot of improvements and is much closer to what a high performance carb should be, with smoothed intake area, screw-in air bleeds, etc. I'd also say go with new metering blocks, the Holley blocks are notorious for warping or finding other ways to be unsquare.

By the time you price these out, a Quick Fuel or other aftermarket HP carb looks quite good.

If you can't afford that, buy the best model 4160 3310 you can find and substitute an aftermarket rear metering plate that uses rel jets, or else convert to a rear metering block.

The modern Holley version of the 3310 is the 80508, which from what I hear runs pretty good out of the box, and probably does a lot better job of fuel metering. Holley does make a "nostalgic" 3310, if one has to have the number stamped into the carb.

I substituted a 570 Street Avenger for an 1850 600 cfm carb and the differentce is very apparent, in a good way.

Another approach is the brand new Barry Grant Street Demon, you can now get it as a 750, with a plastic fuel bowl. It is supposed to be even better than the Street Avengers, even after some tuning.

But the bottom line is, unless one is a carb expert, one is almost always better getting a new(er) carb.

R.
Posted By: cjbill

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/28/13 05:33 PM

Quote:

But the bottom line is, unless one is a carb expert, one is almost always better getting a new(er) carb.






However, recently (read: STILL) going through such trying to rebuild my AVS carb, this is sound advice. By the time I purchased the kit, the pull-off, the rod/jet kit, and all the ancillaries to clean/rebuild it properly, I was NEARLY at the level of buying a brand new carb. In my case, it would have been a 4160 of some form or flavor.

Most 3310's I see at the swap meets were worked on by Bubba Drag Racer and have things like holes drilled in the throttle plates, mismatched metering blocks, strip screw heads, etc. I'd avoid buying a used carb (of which you don't know the history) like the plague. One of the only reasons I decided to stick with my AVS, it was ORIGINAL to it and untouched, so I was fairly certain I could make it right.

eBay prices on used carbs are over-inflated. I see $200+ original carbs for sale (needing rebuilt), and prices for new carbs the same (or more) as buying direct from Summit, Jegs, etc. I guess there are a lot of numbers matching guys with deep pockets out there for the originals. I wouldn't mind finding myself a nice Superquad at some point, and that is probably the ONLY used carb I'd spring any amount of money to buy.
Posted By: paris401

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 10/30/13 03:08 PM

Quote:

I've always used sea foam in the gas tank before storing and haven't had problems.




is sea foam better then the sta-bil i'm using ... i'm using the one for marine engines...

thanks
Posted By: Slant6pak

Re: Need some schooling on Holley carbs? - 11/01/13 12:48 AM

Quote:



Unless you are trying to get "period correct" I'd say chasing after a 3310 or 3310-1 is foolish. In all the years that it survived, it could have been screwed up in so many ways. Also, Holley has improved the metering over the years.

One option for you is to build your own out of a Proform center.

If you can't afford that, buy the best model 4160 3310 you can find and substitute an aftermarket rear metering plate that uses rel jets, or else convert to a rear metering block.

The modern Holley version of the 3310 is the 80508, which from what I hear runs pretty good out of the box, and probably does a lot better job of fuel metering. Holley does make a "nostalgic" 3310, if one has to have the number stamped into the carb.







Cost is not the factor.... a brand new carb with lots of anodized billet parts will not blend in very well with an engine that is trying very hard to look stock...

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate... I'm trying to build a car thats a bit of a sleeper.

I'd like a 750 cfm Holley-style carb that I can dress up with correct 71' add-ons (original finish, original choke, etc.) with as many modern features as I can sneak in.
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