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big block a body piman arm issues

Posted By: moparwilly493

big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 01:03 AM

hello everyone it has been a long time since I have been on here and I need help I finally got my 493 nestled in the engine bay of my 74 dart it has all new suspension parts shumacher mounts manual steering I put a set of old cppa long tube under chassis headers on and they fit great except the damn pitman arm hits the header when the wheels are turned left is there a different style pitman/idler arm I can use to drop the arm and centerlink down so it will clear it is a spool mount kit so im not sure about how I would shim the motor up I need help im enclosing some pictures

Attached picture 7869974-securedownload.jpg
Posted By: Dcuda69

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 01:35 AM

I have CPPA's on a low deck in a 69 B'cuda. Mine sits on the factory mounts on a BB K-frame. I did have to "massage" them in a couple places to clear other items..just not the pitman arm I know it's not any help to ya...just a bump, as I'm sure someone here can give you some ideas..Good luck!!
Posted By: 383man

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 02:29 AM

I think I replied to you on bigblockdart but as I said my sons 400 Dart has chassis CPPA headers. I flattened the tube a bit and heated and bent the pitman arm down a tad. Ron
Posted By: moparwilly493

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 02:30 AM

thanks man unfortunately if I dent them to clear it will damn near close the tube otherwise they fit oh so good I cant believe they would hit there they fit perfect I heard some people mention heating the pitman arm with a torch and bending it down slightly anyone else do this with good results is that safe for a forged part or does it take temper out of the steel what about the earlier style drop centerlink set up?
Posted By: moparwilly493

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 02:34 AM

cool I did not see any replies on bbd I will check again the heated pitman arm works? do you have to do the same to the idler to make it even across the centerlink no crazy alignment issues or funky steering side effects?
Posted By: moparwilly493

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 02:35 AM

ron do you have a pic
Posted By: 383man

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 03:19 AM

Sorry as I dont have any pics of the pitman arm but just the car. I can try to go out in the garage tomorrow and get a pic of it for you. Ron

Posted By: 446acuda

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 03:48 AM

Quote:

is there a different style pitman/idler arm I can use to drop the arm and centerlink down so it will clear it is a spool mount kit so im not sure about how I would shim the motor up I need help im enclosing some pictures


I'd say that a '68-'72 centerlink, idler arm and pitman arm would fix your problem. I had 2" cppa headers in my '69 Barracuda years back with a 440 and a spool mount k-frame. I changed '73-up discs but kept the '69 steering linkage and don't remember having any steering linkage to header issues.
Posted By: moparwilly493

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 03:56 AM

great now next question for the pitman arm for a 67 72 setup is that a small sector or a large sector idler arm?
Posted By: 446acuda

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 04:20 AM

small, so an older manual box will also be needed.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 05:08 AM

Quote:

great now next question for the pitman arm for a 67 72 setup is that a small sector or a large sector idler arm?



Small sector ,

I have an aftermarket large sector pitman for 67-72 centerlink that i'm not going to be using and I'm pretty sure the right centerlink also.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 02:48 PM

Quote:

cool I did not see any replies on bbd I will check again the heated pitman arm works? do you have to do the same to the idler to make it even across the centerlink no crazy alignment issues or funky steering side effects?




Bending the pitman and idler arms will change your toe pattern. How much depends on how much you have to bend it.

Personally I'd look elsewhere for a clearance solution.
Posted By: 383man

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 05:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

cool I did not see any replies on bbd I will check again the heated pitman arm works? do you have to do the same to the idler to make it even across the centerlink no crazy alignment issues or funky steering side effects?




Bending the pitman and idler arms will change your toe pattern. How much depends on how much you have to bend it.

Personally I'd look elsewhere for a clearance solution.




Of course if you heat and bend the pitman arm you have to have the front end aligned when done. It would be nice to find a pitman arm that helps but I will be surprised if you find one to take up all of the room you need unless you shim the eng and trans some. But if you do I would recheck your pinion angle. As I said my boys car is a B block and we did not have to move it as much as you do as I heated and tweaked the pitman maybe a 1/4 to 1/2" at the most. My buddy told me its an old hot rodders trick but I know it worked fine for us and has not caused any front end problems as I aligned the front end and everything set to specs other then I put as much positive caster in it as I could. Ron
Posted By: nomore65BelvJim

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 05:52 PM

How about a small shim behind the top bolt of the steering box? Should rotate the end of the pitman down quite a bit, 6x or more than the shim thickness if my math is right.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 08:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

cool I did not see any replies on bbd I will check again the heated pitman arm works? do you have to do the same to the idler to make it even across the centerlink no crazy alignment issues or funky steering side effects?




Bending the pitman and idler arms will change your toe pattern. How much depends on how much you have to bend it.

Personally I'd look elsewhere for a clearance solution.




Of course if you heat and bend the pitman arm you have to have the front end aligned when done. It would be nice to find a pitman arm that helps but I will be surprised if you find one to take up all of the room you need unless you shim the eng and trans some. But if you do I would recheck your pinion angle. As I said my boys car is a B block and we did not have to move it as much as you do as I heated and tweaked the pitman maybe a 1/4 to 1/2" at the most. My buddy told me its an old hot rodders trick but I know it worked fine for us and has not caused any front end problems as I aligned the front end and everything set to specs other then I put as much positive caster in it as I could. Ron




Ron did you check the toe pattern before and after you bent the pitman & idler arms?

When the centerlink is moved (up OR down) in relation to the lower ball joint arm you have changed the toe pattern regardless if the front end is realigned to correct the toe change.

I suspect you corrected the "toe change" but also changed the "toe pattern"

I can not say how much bending will actually cause drive ability, handling or tire wear issues, but it does change the toe pattern.
Posted By: 383man

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 09:51 PM

I know how raising and lower the steering linkage can cause the toe to be off when the car raises up and toe out on turns. His did not seem to change much as it was only a little and it has handled the same to us. I remember my brothers tube frame 68 Cuda had problems when he first ran it using a steering rack as his toe was way off when the car lifted and they had to add spacers on the end of the tie rod ends to correct it. You are right about that for sure. But honestly we only had to change his 1/4" or a tiny bit more but definetly not more then a 1/2". Ron
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 09/30/13 10:03 PM

Quote:

I know how raising and lower the steering linkage can cause the toe to be off when the car raises up and toe out on turns. His did not seem to change much as it was only a little and it has handled the same to us. I remember my brothers tube frame 68 Cuda had problems when he first ran it using a steering rack as his toe was way off when the car lifted and they had to add spacers on the end of the tie rod ends to correct it. You are right about that for sure. But honestly we only had to change his 1/4" or a tiny bit more but definetly not more then a 1/2". Ron





I just didn't want the OP to start bending things willy-nilly

Someone previous to me had moved somethings around on my Barracuda and everythime I have to touch the front end I cuss

It's time for me to re-plot the whole front suspension and get it correct
Posted By: moparwilly493

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 10/03/13 07:10 PM

I got the new idler arm in today holding it up and kinda eyeing it it doesn't look like it will be much different with the earlier centerlink hopefully the pitman arm will work if it doesn't and I need to bend it what is the best way to go about doing that in a vise? certainly don't want a torch under my car and also do I need to bend down the idler arm to? and what exactly is toe pattern? how would I know if it changed and how do you correct it? as of right now the car is under construction and will be a good while before it is alligned
Posted By: 383man

Re: big block a body piman arm issues - 10/03/13 08:21 PM

I put mine in a vise and pulled the boots off so they would not melt. Then heated it with a torch and just tweaked it a little bit. Ron
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