Moparts

Starter relay...What goes on this terminal

Posted By: Pyper70

Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 01:44 PM

I am looking at the FSM and the picture below (with arrow) points to the one terminal on the starter relay...this goes to the harness which leads into the 4 terminal bulkhead, car is a 1972 Roadrunner 440, 4-spd.

The previous owner had this hooked up directly to (-) post on the battery. FSM states that this goes to the transmission on the clutch switch. I am assuming you have to depress the clutch in order to turn the car over. How much damage is there with the ground cable being connected to this terminal?

Attached picture 7847851-StarterRelay.jpg
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 02:00 PM

No damage at all.
It is designed to be grounded threw the Neutral Safety Switch on an automatic car and the switch on the clutch pedal on a 4 peed car.
Eather way it goes to the - side of the battery .
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 02:02 PM

The safety switch on the clutch grounds it when clutch peddle depressed and allows relay to engage to start car. (or the NSS switch on an Automatic)a positive full time ground lets it start without depressing clutch (or having auto on park or neutral)

Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 03:36 PM

Leave it that way. When you use the clutch switch you have all the pressure of the pressure plate on the semi-dry thrust bearing...
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 03:43 PM

I see....and this is why it pays to ask on Moparts than look at FSM's and pull your hair out..

Thanks
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 03:58 PM

X2 what Jim said. In fact it'd be much cleaner/easier to use a female connector and a ring terminal & several inches of wire & just connect it to the holddown bolt.
Posted By: Crazy68Dart

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

Leave it that way. When you use the clutch switch you have all the pressure of the pressure plate on the semi-dry thrust bearing...



In other words, forget it and start the car in neutral?

Where is the switch when it is wired in properly per the FSM?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 08:52 PM

Quote:



Where is the switch when it is wired in properly per the FSM?

The switch is under the dash with the lever hanging down so it completes the path to ground with the clutch peddle depressed to the flor, or close to the floor
Posted By: RoadRunner

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 09:28 PM

Just a side note. The older cars (my 69 Road Runner, 4 speed for example) has the tab soldered tot he casing already. I think auto cars had the nuetral start switch wired to the tab.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/11/13 11:36 PM

Quote:

Just a side note. The older cars (my 69 Road Runner, 4 speed for example) has the tab soldered tot he casing already. I think auto cars had the nuetral start switch wired to the tab.



Correct. The clutch switch was only used for a few years. I've owned a few manual trans FWD Mopars. None of them had a clutch switch...
Posted By: Magnum

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 04:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Leave it that way. When you use the clutch switch you have all the pressure of the pressure plate on the semi-dry thrust bearing...



In other words, forget it and start the car in neutral?

Where is the switch when it is wired in properly per the FSM?




Bypassing a saftey switch is going to have to be your own choice. I understand starting a carburetred car in gear is not usually a saftey problem like a fuel injected car or a diesel but it is infact safer.

As for a thrust bearing, it is a factor but totally overrated.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 06:19 PM

Quote:

As for a thrust bearing, it is a factor but totally overrated.



Nope, been there had to replace the bottom end for it. If a guy can't manage to put the trans in nuetral and put the left foot on the brake with the right foot on the gas he shouldn't own a three-pedal car...
Posted By: therocks

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 06:36 PM

I agree its the ground.My 65 dosent have any N switch as it a 4 speed factory.I start in with clutch in and have been for 44 years.Never had a thrust bearing problem.My wire goes to ground.Newer autos have the N in the NR switch on the trans.Middle wire is ground.Almost every new car with manual has a N switch on the clutch.I guess someone better tell the engineers they are screwed up and ruining engines that go 200K or more.Rocky
Posted By: 540DUSTER

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 07:06 PM

My good friend was working on his car in the garage.His wife was helping him with an electric problem.He tells her to turn the key on,she starts the car in gear.He ended up in the emer. room with 4 broken ribs.There was a nice hole in the drywall where he went thru.Its a good thing he was between the studs.There is a reason for those switches.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 07:17 PM

Quote:

My good friend was working on his car in the garage.His wife was helping him with an electric problem.He tells her to turn the key on,she starts the car in gear.He ended up in the emer. room with 4 broken ribs.There was a nice hole in the drywall where he went thru.Its a good thing he was between the studs.There is a reason for those switches.



I agree, they should be used and it's very dangerous not using it.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 10:38 PM

It's also very dangerous not using the parking brake...(and yes, I am guilty of that, too).
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/12/13 11:51 PM

I grounded it for now....until I have time to crawl under the car and see whats going on under there...I suspect there is not clutch switch...I found the entire harness (square 4-terminal disconnected and thrown on top of the bellhousing with wire nuts....

Eventually I will get him to buy the right parts so it can be a safe car...no matter how much I drive this 4spd...I am really thankful my father bought the Charger in a 727 configuration
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/13/13 12:48 AM

I removed my clutch switch on my 70 Cuda because of the thrust bearing concern. Think about when you're working on your car and for some reason have to crank and crank, thrust bearings don't put up with that for long.

Also, say you have the switch wired up. You get in the habit of depressing the clutch to start, but the absentminded (which is what this safety feature is designed to guard against) then THINKS his car is in neutral and quickly releases the clutch on a RUNNING engine, not realizing its in gear.

Nope, I prefer the pre-ignition check to ensure I'm in neutral thank you.
Posted By: Magnum

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/13/13 06:14 AM

Quote:

I agree its the ground.My 65 dosent have any N switch as it a 4 speed factory.I start in with clutch in and have been for 44 years.Never had a thrust bearing problem.My wire goes to ground.Newer autos have the N in the NR switch on the trans.Middle wire is ground.Almost every new car with manual has a N switch on the clutch.I guess someone better tell the engineers they are screwed up and ruining engines that go 200K or more.Rocky



Hate to mention is here, since it's a Mopar forum but ya many cars, including their thrust bearing, go the distance with the clutch pedal depressed for starting.
Had 88 Mustang with 380,000kms. The body rusted before the engine shown any signs of wear.
Out in the driveway today is a 2006 International Harvester Dt466. It's seen 600,000kms of starting with the pedal to the floor. The spring pressure from it's clutch has worn out more linkage parts than tires and it's oil pressure is still 40psi hot, just like new.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Starter relay...What goes on this terminal - 09/13/13 06:27 AM

The thrust bearing that I had go bad (and found bad in a 2.2) did not cause any problems (in terms of breakage), but were well beyond tolerance (you could see the crank walk in the 2.2, but I didn't notice it in the 273 until I was in there putting a clutch in). Tell ya what, you start your cars your way and I'll start mine my way...
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