Posted By: RapidRobert
which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/06/13 04:02 PM
oil pickup mods. What do you recommend I use? Thank you for your time.
which epoxy? JB weld or ?
Posted By: dogdays
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/06/13 07:01 PM
I'm wondering why you are using epoxy at all. Please explain.
R.
R.
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/06/13 10:24 PM
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Astrobuf
Posted By: ek3
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/07/13 01:12 AM
Quote:gas weld it.
oil pickup mods. What do you recommend I use? Thank you for your time.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/09/13 03:43 PM
OK, I will have it gas welded
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/09/13 09:06 PM
be careful, it's quite difficult to gas weld cast iron. You might be better to braze the tube into the body. Less heat and less risk.
http://www.toolsandgarages.com/index.php?topic=839.0
Astrobuf
http://www.toolsandgarages.com/index.php?topic=839.0
Astrobuf
Posted By: poboyengineering
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/09/13 09:18 PM
Quote:
be careful, it's quite difficult to gas weld cast iron. You might be better to braze the tube into the body. Less heat and less risk.
http://www.toolsandgarages.com/index.php?topic=839.0
Astrobuf
links like this are why I keep coming back! thanks so much..
Posted By: ek3
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 05:47 AM
I Meant braze..to many old timers around here called it torch welding and would say gas welding is the only real and true way to weld anything. old habits 
Posted By: goldmember
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 06:35 AM
Pickup tubes are easy to mig or tig weld. I wouldn't think of a jb weld patch on on something that critical.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 07:36 AM
Quote:
I'm wondering why you are using epoxy at all. Please explain.
R.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 10:44 AM
Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. 
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 01:15 PM
Quote:Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering.
Astrobuf
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 02:08 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering.
Astrobuf
Hmmm! You sure sound convincing.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 02:16 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering.
Astrobuf
Hmmm! You sure sound convincing.
I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump.
When you start making power you learn about these things.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 02:26 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering.
Astrobuf
Hmmm! You sure sound convincing.
I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump.
When you start making power you learn about these things.
I agree with the tire shake issue, That is an effect from outside the engine.
Im just not sure about the comparison of Banging on the case of a oil pump with a Hammer and resonant Harmonics from an oil pump operating as intended.
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 03:09 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump.
Astrobuf
Vibrating oil pump?
An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering.
Astrobuf
Hmmm! You sure sound convincing.
I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump.
When you start making power you learn about these things.
I agree with the tire shake issue, That is an effect from outside the engine.
Im just not sure about the comparison of Banging on the case of a oil pump with a Hammer and resonant Harmonics from an oil pump operating as intended.
Trust me, I'm a Mechanical Engineer with an extensive background in structural mechanics ;p
Posted By: dogdays
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 04:46 PM
So am I.
To the disbelievers, there is A REASON why Chrysler supported the end of the pickup tube by placing it on the floor of the oil pan.
But if you don't want to learn or understand, there's no help for you.
R.
To the disbelievers, there is A REASON why Chrysler supported the end of the pickup tube by placing it on the floor of the oil pan.
But if you don't want to learn or understand, there's no help for you.
R.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 05:30 PM
Sorry I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer.
Your intellect is obviously far superior to my own.
I bow down before you!
I'm pretty sure most all of the manufacturers support or have a distance they keep the pickup of the bottom of the pan so it stays submerged in the oil.
Im pretty sure it is not recommended to set the pickup directly on the floor of the oil pan.
Your intellect is obviously far superior to my own.
I bow down before you!
I'm pretty sure most all of the manufacturers support or have a distance they keep the pickup of the bottom of the pan so it stays submerged in the oil.
Im pretty sure it is not recommended to set the pickup directly on the floor of the oil pan.
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 05:34 PM
Quote:
So am I.
To the disbelievers, there is A REASON why Chrysler supported the end of the pickup tube by placing it on the floor of the oil pan.
But if you don't want to learn or understand, there's no help for you.
R.
It is indeed a much better design (as is usual for Chrysler) than the GM configuration where most of the experience with brazing the pickup was developed.
I think this discussion started with the question of gluing the pickup in for reinforcement, a bad idea no matter what the design given the heat and oil exposure.
Astrobuf
Posted By: BDW
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 06:31 PM
Quote:
Sorry I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer.
Don't you dare apologize, everyone knows mechanical engineers are the ones who couldn't cut it in the EE dept.
Bazinga!
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 06:37 PM
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 10:21 PM
I have a pic of what I am working with but my home computer died a week ago & I'm on a borrowed office computer & I ain't figured how to upload pics onto it so I can post em but I'll get some help & post em later
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 11:03 PM
Robert,
Ive raced for several years and have never done anymore than screw the pickup in on any of my BB motors leaving an 1/8th inch space I might add.
My 66 dart consistently went into the low 9's.
If it makes you feel more secure you can put a tack weld on it.
If your not romping at the track 450 times a season don't worry about it.
Just the advice of a lowly BSEE!
Ive raced for several years and have never done anymore than screw the pickup in on any of my BB motors leaving an 1/8th inch space I might add.
My 66 dart consistently went into the low 9's.
If it makes you feel more secure you can put a tack weld on it.
If your not romping at the track 450 times a season don't worry about it.
Just the advice of a lowly BSEE!
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/10/13 11:19 PM
It's a high rpm circle track 360. when you see the pic I am committed to where I am at. I am going to set the depth (probable 1/8") & weld it then reinstall the screen into the circular slit & tamp it down to crimp it in place. Thank you for (most 
) of the replies. I'd like to weld 3 or 4 nuts of the right thickness on the bottom of the pickup to set the clearance exactly where I want it plus have everything supported.
![Attached picture 7847141-DCP_0417[1].JPG](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7847141-DCP_0417[1].JPG "7847141-DCP_0417[1].JPG")
) of the replies. I'd like to weld 3 or 4 nuts of the right thickness on the bottom of the pickup to set the clearance exactly where I want it plus have everything supported.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/11/13 01:03 AM
WoW!
You might have mentioned the circle track part.
I would think welding would be mandatory on your pictured set up.
Did you make a pan?
I wounder if you might have an issue with Cavitation because of the extreme 90's?
Perhaps Challenger1 has a great idea for your application.
Go drysump.
I hope it works out for you
You might have mentioned the circle track part.
I would think welding would be mandatory on your pictured set up.
Did you make a pan?
I wounder if you might have an issue with Cavitation because of the extreme 90's?
Perhaps Challenger1 has a great idea for your application.
Go drysump.
I hope it works out for you
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/11/13 01:20 AM
I don't know anything about circle track 360s. Do they use pipe fittings like that?
They seem awfully heavy and weak, especially that closed nipple.
You can run a external belt driven pump with a wet sump pan, that what I did with a 572 BBC I used to run. It broke pickups off, it broke entire oil pumps off even with the brace installed. Tire shake in a dragster is brutal. I can't imagine a dirt track is any smoother?
They seem awfully heavy and weak, especially that closed nipple.
You can run a external belt driven pump with a wet sump pan, that what I did with a 572 BBC I used to run. It broke pickups off, it broke entire oil pumps off even with the brace installed. Tire shake in a dragster is brutal. I can't imagine a dirt track is any smoother?
Posted By: rowin4
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/11/13 02:54 AM
Quote:
It's a high rpm circle track 360. when you see the pic I am committed to where I am at. I am going to set the depth (probable 1/8") & weld it then reinstall the screen into the circular slit & tamp it down to crimp it in place. Thank you for (most
If you are going to go with the set up you have pictured at least change to iron 90"s instead of galvanized. And if I was to do that that pick up ,I would get some tubing bent up , that iron pipe is just to heavy and will crack at the threads. I've welded up pickups similar to yours using 3 different pick ups to get the bends needed. never broke. Just my opinion.
Posted By: ek3
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/13/13 03:10 AM
the main cause for oil pump fractures is due to solid motor mounts . [ you are using solids yes?] as far as the pick up tube goes, a thin wall tube would be much better and easier to support . I would braze a thin wall pickup to the pump and scrap the heavy wall pipe pictured . install the pump and the correct pickup so the pickup is slightly " above " the pan height , then with a 1/4" shim placed completely across the screen section of the pickup ,place the pan onto the engine and bolt it down . now remove the pan and braze the pickup and your clearance is set exactly where you want it. .............from one circle track racer to another !!
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/13/13 04:16 AM
Yeah I'm not real comfortable with that thick wall stuff either. If you have a brand/part # for some thin wall material I'm all ears! The pump is tapped for 1/2 NPT so it'd have to work with that size
Posted By: astrobuf
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/13/13 05:03 AM
OMG - my concerns re vibration just quadrupled. You need to build this using 1/2 inch flex copper brazed to a pickup on one end, and a compression fitting to a male adapter on the other end. If rug up a bracket of some kind to the pump body to lock the compression fitting down and provide support tool.
Astrobuf
Astrobuf
Posted By: ek3
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/14/13 05:50 AM
Quote:canton or champ ,steffs is a great custom mfg check with them for tubing.. which/what pan do you have. you should be able to get a matching pickup for it. if the pump is drilled for 1/2 " , you should be able to get one in 1/2" or you will have to adapt it down to fit the matching pickup.
Yeah I'm not real comfortable with that thick wall stuff either. If you have a brand/part # for some thin wall material I'm all ears! The pump is tapped for 1/2 NPT so it'd have to work with that size
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? - 09/14/13 02:31 PM
The pump is tapped for 1/2 pipe. I do not want to neck it down. I'm using a 392 pan which is a common "center" sump but more toward the front. I do have a std vol pump/matching pickup (for that pan) but I want (need) the hi vol pump tapped for 1/2 along with the other oiling mods. I will see what Steffs has. Thank you!