Moparts

What overdrive trans fits a 440 ?

Posted By: acesneights

What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 02:43 PM

Would like OD behind my 440 in my RV.
What would work ?
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 02:48 PM

I am assuming you are looking for an automatic OD for an RV and the short answer to that question is there is no OD that will bolt on to any BB Mopar.

The easiest thing I could think of for you to investigate would be to go the Gear Vendor OD route. Pricey unit but would probably require few mods to your RV...probably just a shortened driveshaft would be the worst. This is a unit that bolts on to your existing 727 (replaces tail shaft) and adds the overdrive. They seem to run in the ~3K range IIRC.
Posted By: feets

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 04:06 PM

Skip the Gear Vendors and get a 518.

I'm putting one behind the 440 in my Imperial. Ultrabell has a bellhousing that joins the two. It requires cutting the bellhousing back to the front pump and bolting the new one up.

The transmissions are tough and not much longer than a regular 727. The OD ratio is .69 which is a bit better than the .79 of the GV unit. It's a few thousand dollars cheaper too.

Some people talk about the ability to split gears with a GV but I haven't found anybody who really uses it that way. It's a bit cumbersome to shift it like that.
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Skip the Gear Vendors and get a 518.

I'm putting one behind the 440 in my Imperial. Ultrabell has a bellhousing that joins the two. It requires cutting the bellhousing back to the front pump and bolting the new one up.

The transmissions are tough and not much longer than a regular 727. The OD ratio is .69 which is a bit better than the .79 of the GV unit. It's a few thousand dollars cheaper too.

Some people talk about the ability to split gears with a GV but I haven't found anybody who really uses it that way. It's a bit cumbersome to shift it like that.




That may be a possibility as well but more to it than the GV unit. Also would a motorhome have the shorty 727? Not sure if there would be more fitment involved or not. Plus you will need a fabricated tranny cross member Also you have to have a vacuum modulator for the OD/lockup but yes this can be done as well.

I was trying to suggest an easy route. Unless you can fabricate yourself on the cheap, I can see this route getting as expensive as GV unit. That and all the hassle of having to source the transmission, build to handle the 440, cut/replace the bell, fabricate the cross member, install/tune the OD/lockup vacuum control, and then new driveshaft....that's if it can fit in the RV without floor pan mods.

This is a valid route but I wouldn't agree that it's guaranteed cheaper that the GV. I would just think with an RV, you would want 'easy' as opposed to lots of custom fabrication work.
Posted By: feets

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 04:56 PM

Fitting the OD in a van body should not be much of a hassle.

I don't see why so many people are afraid of this swap. I don't see any challenges to it and I'll have under $1000 in the whole thing when it's done. That price includes the Ultra Bell, transmission, and rebuild.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 05:23 PM

Quote:

Would like OD behind my 440 in my RV.
What would work ?


What class RV, A,B or C? If it is a full chassis class A with big tall 19.5 or 20 inch tires I put a Eaton two speed rear end in my old class A, took out a 4.89 ratio stock and put in a 4.56 in direct and 6.17 in underdrive, that worked real well
Posted By: president61

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 05:32 PM

my neighbor put a 518 in his motorhome and he loves it. it is behind a 360 though, which of course is easier
Posted By: dogdays

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 06:05 PM

The answer is split 50/50.

It all depends.

The GearVendors has been used for several years in motorhomes and it may well be possible to buy an existing setup. I've seen the overdrive units at swap meets in the $1000 range, the company will sell you the rest of the parts to make it work. If you're savvy enough to get ths far, getting the driveshaft modified is a piece of cake. Many longer wheelbase vehicles have two-piece driveshafts and those are very easy to shorten.

The Mopar overdrive automatic transmission is also an atractive option, cut off the bellhousing and swap on an aftermarket one. There are issues with the sttarter, but can be solved, thousands have.

Building the 518 to handle 440 power is no problem either, as the front if it is a 727.
BUT, the later auto trannys have been strengthened for use in front of Cummins and V10 engines, and I'd think of looking at those. Electronic controls sound daunting but I believe are easier to get right in the long run. Having a lockup converter would be nice, as well.

In conclusion, both ideas are attractive and both if done properly will cost about the same. I'd start looking at swap meets or CL and start talking to your favorite modern Mopar auto tranny shops to see which way the dice will land for you.

Also, Feets, thanks for keeping your eye on the ball about cost. That's important. I hope your transmission lasts a long time.

R.
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 06:07 PM

Quote:

Fitting the OD in a van body should not be much of a hassle.

I don't see why so many people are afraid of this swap. I don't see any challenges to it and I'll have under $1000 in the whole thing when it's done. That price includes the Ultra Bell, transmission, and rebuild.




If I ever have some spare change this is the route I will go as I would want the steeper overdrive than the GV unit. However, if you can do all this for $1000, you have a hookup somewhere and/or you are doing the work yourself which is beyond what little skill I have.

Hell, I'll give you $1000 right now if you can give me a A518 built and ready to bolt on to a my 400 stroker in my 73 Charger! I can't even find a rebuilt A518 from the correct year for under $1000 after shipping...and even with a junker, the rebuild kits are pricey and then the labor to have them done. I wish I had the skill to build this myself. :-(

At least now we have two options for the OP.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 06:10 PM

Who said anything about "built"?

Start out with a good junkyard A518 and do the swap. Remember, the car was moving when it ran into the immovable object!

R.
Posted By: gdonovan

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 06:11 PM

Quote:



I was trying to suggest an easy route. Unless you can fabricate yourself on the cheap, I can see this route getting as expensive as GV unit.




I'm no great shakes with a welder and I got it done on my Duster. As a former RV tech I can assure you there is far more room under an RV for a trans than my Duster.
Posted By: feets

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/06/13 06:48 PM

Quote:

Hell, I'll give you $1000 right now if you can give me a A518 built and ready to bolt on to a my 400 stroker in my 73 Charger!







If I had the extra time I'd drag another one out of the Pick N Pull.


Quote:

I wish I had the skill to build this myself.




Do you have a dial caliper, a set of snap ring pliers, and access to a shop press?
If so, you'll have everything you need to build a transmission.

Follow the steps in the factory shop manual and pay attention. It's easier than you'd think.
Posted By: tobnHisglory

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/07/13 04:19 AM

Now you've got me curious about the A518 swap. What is involved in cutting off the old bell housing for the ultra bell conversion? Where do you cut? Where do you drill? Is there a diagram for this anywhere?
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/07/13 04:26 AM

I believe the replacement bell housing is held in by the bolts that hold in the front pump. The 'Ultra-Bell" kit comes with longer bolts to account for the thickness of the flange.
Posted By: mike s

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/07/13 07:13 AM

There is another way.PTC trans has a kit that uses an 95 or older A-518.The 361-440 block will have to have the drv side lower bolt area cut off the block to clear room for the starter.No ultra bell only an adapter.They also have a very slick way to run the overdrive and the lockup.No on-off switch to reset at every stoplight.
Posted By: feets

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/07/13 02:43 PM

I think I'd like to avoid cutting an ear off the block.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/07/13 05:50 PM


A pic of the 518 with an Ultrabell housing installed.

Attached picture 7843005-Ultra518.jpg
Posted By: Turbo383

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/08/13 09:55 AM

Feets - this is off the subject - but have yo had any problems
with the turbo bearings? Do you use a pre-oiler or hydraulic accumulatorS?

Thanks!
Posted By: feets

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/08/13 03:47 PM

I've had one turbo coke the bearings but I think it was due to a poor drain line angle. Engine torque smacked the line on the frame rail and angled it upwards. Oil was slow to drain and cooked in the bearing housing.
Posted By: moparmarks

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/08/13 04:01 PM

Quote:


A pic of the 518 with an Ultrabell housing installed.




A customer in Denver fit this setup into his 74 Charger. Turned out really sweet.
Tranny shop in Denver sells the rebuilt BB 518 for around 1200.00 IIRC. Ready to bolt in.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/09/13 12:36 AM

Isn't the 518 a bit if a tight fit in cars? Don't you have to cut metal out of the trans crossmember to clear the larger diameter tailshaft housing?
Posted By: moparmarks

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/09/13 02:15 AM

Quote:

Isn't the 518 a bit if a tight fit in cars? Don't you have to cut metal out of the trans crossmember to clear the larger diameter tailshaft housing?



The 73-up B's have a way different x-member than all the others. It needed minor clearing. On most everything else, A, E and 72-down B, yes major cutting in needed. Trucks, vans and MH's should be pretty easy install.
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/09/13 02:40 PM

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84774.0

Apparently, no major cutting is involved. This is the way I am planning on going and I will not cut up my Cuda.

I just picked up a 518 out of a 3/4 ton. $175 from the pick-a-part yard with the wiring and lines. And they pulled it.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/10/13 01:35 PM

Quote:

Skip the Gear Vendors and get a 518.



Agreed!!

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=3453311
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/10/13 02:10 PM

Quote:

The 73-up B's have a way different x-member than all the others. It needed minor clearing. On most everything else, A, E and 72-down B, yes major cutting in needed. Trucks, vans and MH's should be pretty easy install.






I would like to consider going this route on my 73 Charger but I would want to know what snags you run into. I am afraid of having to cut or modify anything where it couldn't be reversed. My car is numbers # engine and tranny and I would want the option to roll it back to original.

If I can get a tranny cross member/mount fabricated for my car, did you have to cut anything else? I know shorten the driveshaft but I would buy an extra for that.

What mods to the 74 Charger did you have to do?
Posted By: acesneights

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 01:26 AM

Thanks guys for the advice. GV is big bucks. I like the 518 idea but the only thing that would scare me is cutting the bellhousing. Everything else no problem. It is a Dodge M500 chassis. Loads of room to make anything fit. The only issue I could see is having to lose the Ebrake brake on the driveshaft which does not work anyway and was a joke when it did.Might as well nail an old shoe to a stick and call the the emergency brake shoe.
I'd like more info on the 518 bellhousing swap and cutting the 518. Everything else I can handle . I can have the driveshaft modded up the street and I am a welder.
Posted By: it's Bob

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 02:10 AM

To see an Ultrabell install watch this:

http://www.spike.com/episodes/duk444/powerblock-build-by-request-part-2-season-4-ep-167

start at the 10:00 minute point. Really doesn't look that difficult to do for yourself.

Bob
Posted By: acesneights

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 02:32 AM

Awesome vid. Thanks, you are right. I could easily do that although I am having a hard time believing that the pump bolts can hold that power.
Bo Duke was awesome BTW. Still looks great.
So Ultrabell says you can only use an 11" TC. Will that work in n RV ?
Can I get a low stall speed in that size ? Also which flexplate would I want and do I want the diesel a518 or gasser ? IS there a difference ? I would assume there is.
Posted By: acesneights

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 02:59 AM

Also I am not well schooled on 440's. Being that mine is an RV do I have a steel or cast crank ? How can I tell and what does that mean with respect to flexplate and TC and balance ?
Posted By: it's Bob

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 04:27 PM

Quote:

Awesome vid. Thanks, you are right. I could easily do that although I am having a hard time believing that the pump bolts can hold that power.
Bo Duke was awesome BTW. Still looks great.
So Ultrabell says you can only use an 11" TC. Will that work in n RV ?
Can I get a low stall speed in that size ? Also which flexplate would I want and do I want the diesel a518 or gasser ? IS there a difference ? I would assume there is.




Power, well it works for the drag racing guys. I would hazard to guess that they are putting down some serious HP/torque. When you cut off the factory bell you will be surprised at how thin the Al is in places. And how thick the Al is on the Ultrabell...which leads to this..

The UB is a very thick Al casting. It has to be to get the SFI burst rating for the TC and the other parts that might try to come flying out in the event of a failure. As such you can, with time and some effort clearance the inside of the bell to accept a 12" converter if that really is the way you want to go. You would need to remove a bit more than 1/2" of metal all the way around the inside for several inches in. Lots of work/time. UB will tell you that you might need to grind the starter pocket area as well to make some factory style starter noses fit as well.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/18/13 06:05 PM

The engine ID pad will tell the story of how the engine wars originally built. It's below the distributor. Clean it off, post the info here. Basically a cast crank motor will have an "E" somewhere on that pad.. But find and post, we'll help.

R.
Posted By: acesneights

Re: What overdrive trans fits a 440 ? - 09/19/13 12:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Awesome vid. Thanks, you are right. I could easily do that although I am having a hard time believing that the pump bolts can hold that power.
Bo Duke was awesome BTW. Still looks great.
So Ultrabell says you can only use an 11" TC. Will that work in n RV ?
Can I get a low stall speed in that size ? Also which flexplate would I want and do I want the diesel a518 or gasser ? IS there a difference ? I would assume there is.




Power, well it works for the drag racing guys. I would hazard to guess that they are putting down some serious HP/torque. When you cut off the factory bell you will be surprised at how thin the Al is in places. And how thick the Al is on the Ultrabell...which leads to this..

The UB is a very thick Al casting. It has to be to get the SFI burst rating for the TC and the other parts that might try to come flying out in the event of a failure. As such you can, with time and some effort clearance the inside of the bell to accept a 12" converter if that really is the way you want to go. You would need to remove a bit more than 1/2" of metal all the way around the inside for several inches in. Lots of work/time. UB will tell you that you might need to grind the starter pocket area as well to make some factory style starter noses fit as well.



Is there a low stall 11 inch convertor ?
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