Moparts

Parts store octane booster question

Posted By: ashburnmike

Parts store octane booster question - 12/10/08 11:53 PM

Now that my 340 is running and I've taken it out a couple of times playing w/ the distributor timing. It does ping when I step on it. I have premium pump gas in it.
While @ the Advance Auto Parts store I was reading the labels on the octane booster products.
1 bottle per tank etc.
Does this stuff work?
thanks

Mike
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/10/08 11:56 PM

Not really.

Dave
Posted By: ashburnmike

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:02 AM

what does?
Posted By: BradH

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:16 AM

The octane boosters that do work are only effective for about 2 #s (i.e. 93 boosts to 95) when mixed at 1 oz per gallon. Most of the stuff on the parts shelves doesn't work well enough to bother with.

Stuff that's been tested independently for that 2-point improvement includes Amsoil's and the "race blend" NOS brand. There may be others that will get you 1-1.5 points, but I can't say which ones at the moment 'cuz all my research notes are on another 'puter.

BTW, 104+ used to actually do something. However, it's been reformulated into something that's now about as effective as "diaper squeezings" for some reason.
Posted By: ashburnmike

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:25 AM

thanks...I'll look for the more potent juice.
btw..Nice car you have there.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:39 AM

Sorry for the abrupt 1st response;

- My car runs about 10.75:1 and with the cam I've got and the unported 906's, I expect the cylinder pressures to be too high for pump premium. Initially I thought of the octane boost in a can too (104+ is the brand that came to mind) but after a little research and talking to the guys with the same setup as mine, I realized I'll need to run race gas or at least a race gas/pump gas mix.

My understanding is that the octane boost in a can is good for only incremental increases like 1/10th of an octane.

If things are borderline, retarding the timing may be enough to stop the detonation.

My car isn't finished yet, but the plan is for a 50/50 mix of race gas and pump gas.

Hope this helps,

Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 02:31 AM

what compression ratio do u run? what is your timing set at (total). what distributor? what has been done to the distrib?
no, octane boosters work for about .5 a point in octane so add it to 93 octane gas and you get 93.5 octane
Posted By: zooom

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 02:54 AM

Mike,
Octane booster [generally a mix of aniline, toluene & ethylbenzene] costs too much to be effective in the quantities you'd need to boost octane in pump gasoline. I'd suggest you visit your local small airport & buy some 100LL AV gas & try mixing that stuff with pump premium. AV gas adds some tetraethyl lead to the gasoline mix - something long removed from "street" gasoline. I think you'll find the engine [up to ~ 12.5:1 static compression] will like the stuff & so will your wallet!
Posted By: JonC

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 03:06 AM

Quote:

Mike,
Octane booster [generally a mix of aniline, toluene & ethylbenzene] costs too much to be effective in the quantities you'd need to boost octane in pump gasoline. I'd suggest you visit your local small airport & buy some 100LL AV gas & try mixing that stuff with pump premium. AV gas adds some tetraethyl lead to the gasoline mix - something long removed from "street" gasoline. I think you'll find the engine [up to ~ 12.5:1 static compression] will like the stuff & so will your wallet!



I agree, Av gas blend will help a lot, octane boosters are only marginal.
Posted By: ashburnmike

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 03:22 AM

you can buy gas at an airport? Aviation fuel?
no kidding? Didn't know that. Guess it would have more octane than the Exxon down the street.
I have a regional airport nearby. Who do you talk to? The manager?
Posted By: wildman340

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 04:44 AM

Not all will sell it to you, the closest one to me won't. Torco has an octane booster that supposedly works very well. Only mix the amount you need to stop detonation, any excess above that is just wasted.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 05:04 AM

You could also try mixing in some straight toluene or xylene. If you google it they both have a wikipedia page talking about what their octane is. I think they are both in the 105-110 range if memory serves. Enough to boost pump gas a lil, depending on how much you mix.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 06:17 AM

Quote:

you can buy gas at an airport? Aviation fuel? no kidding? Didn't know that.


We used to drive my buddies 69 bird out onto the tarmac & fill up till their regs changed & had to bring a container
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:33 PM

you can buy av gas but they wont pump it straight into your car and DONT PUT IT IN YOUR CAR AT THE AIRPORT or they wont sell it to you again.

bring a can. just ask them to fill it and then drive away with it. dont tell them what its for. just say you need 5 gallons....
Posted By: fig426

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:38 PM

Quote:

The octane boosters that do work are only effective for about 2 #s (i.e. 93 boosts to 95) when mixed at 1 oz per gallon. Most of the stuff on the parts shelves doesn't work well enough to bother with.

Stuff that's been tested independently for that 2-point improvement includes Amsoil's and the "race blend" NOS brand. There may be others that will get you 1-1.5 points, but I can't say which ones at the moment 'cuz all my research notes are on another 'puter. "
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This is incorrect. The points that they are claiming are percentage points. So 5 points on 93 octane gives you 93.5 octane. As said before, a large quantity is needed, If you have 5 gallons of 90 octane and 5 gallons of something that is 100 octane, you will have 95 octane. 5 gallons of pint size boost bottles is EXPENSIVE!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The octane boosters that do work are only effective for about 2 #s (i.e. 93 boosts to 95) when mixed at 1 oz per gallon. Most of the stuff on the parts shelves doesn't work well enough to bother with.

Stuff that's been tested independently for that 2-point improvement includes Amsoil's and the "race blend" NOS brand. There may be others that will get you 1-1.5 points, but I can't say which ones at the moment 'cuz all my research notes are on another 'puter.




This is incorrect. The points that they are claiming are percentage points. So 5 points on 93 octane gives you 93.5 octane. As said before, a large quantity is needed, If you have 5 gallons of 90 octane and 5 gallons of something that is 100 octane, you will have 95 octane. 5 gallons of pint size boost bottles is EXPENSIVE!

BTW, 104+ used to actually do something. However, it's been reformulated into something that's now about as effective as "diaper squeezings" for some reason.










its percentage points. not octane points. its really a scam. tricky marketing to get you to think you have something better than what they are selling
Posted By: fig426

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:44 PM

ketone at home depot is 17 a gallon. its also around 117 octane. You can buy known good race fuel for cheaper than that and cut it into your regular gass.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 12:56 PM

but before you go thru all that, WHATS YOUR COMPRESSION RATION, CAM , and HEADS? Also What did you doi to the distributor, whats the ttal timing? vacuum advance hooked up?

If you have under 10.25:1 with iron heads or slightly higher with aluminum heads, or a big nasty cam that will bleeds off some cylinder pressure, its most likely pinging because yur timing and/or distributor is messed up.
Posted By: 71scamp440

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 03:32 PM

Quote:

Now that my 340 is running and I've taken it out a couple of times playing w/ the distributor timing. It does ping when I step on it. I have premium pump gas in it.
While @ the Advance Auto Parts store I was reading the labels on the octane booster products.
1 bottle per tank etc.
Does this stuff work?
thanks

Mike





lucas octane booster auctully does what it says it does. thats the only one ive ever found that works. ive been selling at parts stores for 12 years now and take it from me, lucas is the way to go.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 03:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The octane boosters that do work are only effective for about 2 #s (i.e. 93 boosts to 95) when mixed at 1 oz per gallon. Most of the stuff on the parts shelves doesn't work well enough to bother with.
...




This is incorrect. The points that they are claiming are percentage points. So 5 points on 93 octane gives you 93.5 octane....




its percentage points. not octane points....



I suggest you guys do a little more research before blowing off my findings so quickly. I'll just do a "brain dump" of my notes on the subject and let you weed through it yourself:

Google findings for Torco Accelerator:

The controversial part of this is that this is believed to be the dosage for the LEADED version (not the UNleaded) which is no longer being sold from what I can determine:
"Torco's treatment ratio with 32ozs of Accelerator is...
- 97 minimum octane race fuel, treat 20 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline.
- 104 minimum octane race fuel, treat 10 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline.
- 107 minimum octane race fuel, treat 5 gallons of 93 octane minimum race fuel."

http://www.torcostore.com/c-11-power-products.aspx

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-420798.html

http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=7

http://f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157558&page=4&highlight=toulene

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f21/44271-torco-fuel-additive-test-1-a.html

http://www.need4speedpower.com/torco.html

http://www.jbsblownc5.net/html/torco.html#5gal

http://f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157558&page=3&highlight=toulene

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:-DV...cd=41&gl=us

Octane booster tests search:

http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm

"The Idaho Corvette Page acquired octane booster test data from an independent research laboratory. The first test was straight 92-octane unleaded gas from a Chevron station in southern California. It tested at 96.3 RON and 88.3 MON for an R+M/2 rating of 92.3, 0.3-oct. higher than the rating on the pump. To a second sample of Chevron 92 from the same station, the lab added “104 Octane Boost”. The octane of the gasoline modified with this booster was unchanged. The lab tested a third sample of Chevron 92 and NOS brand “Street Formula”, a MMT octane booster, mixed 1:170 (12-oz. bottle in 16 gal. of gas). The results were: 96.8 RON, 88.4 MON and 92.6 R+M/2, a measurable change but, clearly, as the MON went up only 0.1-oct, not a practical improvement. NOS’ most potent booster, “Racing Formula”, another MMT-based product, in Chevron 92, tested at 98.5 RON, 90.4 MON and 94.5 R+M/2, a credible but modest [2.3 RON / 2.1 MON] improvement."

http://www.hovis.cc/Firebird_HTML/octane_booster.htm
- Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Booster raised octane from 96.8 to 98.8 (+2.0)
- NOS Racing Formula raised octane from 96.8 to 98.6 (+1.8)

http://www.sportscarforums.com/f13/toluene-my-octane-booster-choice-3257.html

Typed Version of the Article in Aussie car magazine Fast Fours Magazine Nov/Dec 1999:

Octane boosters are popular in the performance scene because they often regain power last through detonation. Sold for around $25 in a handy bottle, they’re a convenient fuel additive and horsepower helper. But with so much brands on the market, you may be fooled into thinking they’re all as effective as each other. Which they’re not! Differing chemical compounds, additives and even volumes, mixed in with a good percentage of advertising, ‘independent" testing and testimonials all conspire to confuse the consumer away from the single most important paint: does it improve the octane rating?

Let’s see what’s worth it in octane boosters.

DO I NEED AN OCTANE BOOSTER?

The boys at "The Macquarie Library" describe detonation as: "Excessively rapid burning of the fuel mixture, often caused by auto-ignition due to excessive temperatures in the combustion chamber, incorrect ignition timing, lean mixtures, too high a compression ratio or unsuitable fuel," – as in too-low an octane rating.

Heard as a faint, metallic rattle, detonation is accompanied by a loss of power and can cause serious damage to piston crowns.

The significance of detonation is such that many companies produce fuel additives designed to increase the inherent octane rating of a given fuel. The proliferation of octane boosters has in part come about in recent times thanks to low quality Australian fuels. White or "Super" leaded fuel has been reduced from 98 to 95-96 octane, Premium Unleaded has also dropped to a minimum of 95 octane. And this presents a problem for high-performance cars designed to run on higher octane European or 100 octane Japanese fuel. Japanese import performance cars, Subaru’s STI WRX for example, runs an ECU program for 100 octane, but sometimes detonates on our Australian PULP.

All engines are different though and with Honda’s S2000 2.0-litre engine running a high 11.0:1 compression ratio, it relies on advanced engine management as much as quality fuel. But it can sustain its power on PULP. And of course any turbo owner who has experimented with boost will know if you run too much, it will detonate, so improving the octane is vital for maximum performance.

We must state that unless an engine is detonation through low RON fuel, octane boosters have little use. However, in a turbo or high compression application, the inclusion of a better grade of fuel allows the engine management system to optimize ignition timing and fueling.

THE CONTESTANTS

For this test we tracked down nine different makes and models of octane boosters, two fuel "additive," a straight race fuel and a drum of Toluene. Where there were several different "levels" of octane boosters in the one brand, we chose the strongest version.

The biggest claims the bottles have is the amount of "points" they claim to increase. This is ambiguous as a "point" can relate to either 1.0 RON (Research Octane Number) octane points, or 0.1RON octane points.

The list of entrants in our octane Olympics included:

STP Octane Booster
Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster,
Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost,
Super 104+ Octane Booster,
VP C5 Fuel Additive,
ELF HTX 330 Racing Fuel Stabilizer,
Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster,
PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based,
PowerFuel Max Race Nitro Based,
NF Octane Booster Racing Formula,
NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula,
Toluene,
VP Motorsport 103 Unleaded Racing Fuel

THE TEST

To conduct these tests we contracted independent laboratory Intertek Testing Services, who would test our products on a knock engine.

We had to also find a base fuel to add our boosters to so we went to the closest public petrol station, a Shell on the outward-bound side of the Westgate Bridge in Melbourne.

Being a performance-based test, we chose premium unleaded fuel as this represents the most common high performance fuel (ie: if you start with regular unleaded, you’re wasting money!). We should add that "some" boosters would have improved the octane rating of regular unleaded proportionately more than our tests with PULP.

With a RON rating at a minimum of 95, we first established the exact octane of the PULP. The biggest surprise was our randomly select Shell resulted in a quite high 96-8 RON.

We precisely measured and mixed each additive to the PULP, according to each manufacturer’s recommendations and specs and poured each into the knock engine’s tank. The compression ratio was then slowly increased until it started to knock, gaining a threshold of detonation and subsequently a maximum RON rating.

Of less importance but still worth mentioning is the design of the bottles: since most people will be pouring it straight into a tank, the design of a bottle is important to prevent any spillage on paintwork causing damage.

So let’s look at the results!

THE RESULTS

BASELINE OCTANE 96.8

Octane points

It’s very easy to confuse octane ratings as there are a number of separate international standards. MON (Motor Octane Number) is the number derived from a fuel when it’s applied to a test engine run at 3000rpm rather than 600rpm and higher inlet temps and ignition advance. The Australian importer of 104+, Andrew Holdsworth, suggested MON is seen as a more real-world test.

Though none of the fuel companies promote the MON figure which is normally between 7 and 10 numbers less than RON (Research Octane Number).

Intertek’s Graeme Marks believes RON provides the general public with an idea of which additive works more effectively. And being the most commonly-used reference, we’ve used RON for all our tests.

11th

PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based

946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $35

Right from the start, we were told PowerFuel’s additives weren’t necessarily octane boosters, but horsepower helpers. We kept this in mind when testing both the products, but of the two only the Super Street claimed it was specifically designed to increase the octane rating of PULP. With a 20-percent nitro mix, Super Street Nitro-Based still improved octane ever so slightly (0.2RON) but the real test for these two would come on the dyno runs.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)

10th

PowerFuel MaxRace Nitro Based

946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $45

Containing another 15 percent more nitromethane than the SuperStreet formula, MaxRace doesn’t claim to increase octane, but the verbal recommendation was the same, ie: its main characteristic is to boost horsepower, not octane. For a fair comparison of these two additives, you need to look at the power they produce. As for octane, it proved very similar toe the SuperStreet formula bumping up octane ever so slightly.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)

9th

STP Octane Booster

350ml treats 57 litres RRP: $10.95

One of the cheapest of the group, the STP was also one of the hardest to find. Auto stores either didn’t stock it, or had simply run out! Claiming to increase the octane 2-5 points, in a well-designed-for-pouring bottle, the STP – used in the ratio determined by the label - improved the octane marginally by just over half a point. A little disappointing unless you interpret STP’s claim actually meant 0.2-0.5 points. Then it’s a good result!

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.4 (+0.6 RON)

8th

Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster

325ml treats 60 litres RRP: $10

The Wynns was the cheapest of the lot and claimed an increase between two and five points, again not actually listing what a "point" related to. Strangely though the 10+ could indicate 1RON and if this is the case going by our tests it almost lived up to its name. It didn’t quite live up to its claims however, increasing the octane rating by 0.8RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.6 (+0.8 RON)

7th

Super 104+ Octane Boost

473ml treats 83 litres RRP: $25.95

The acknowledged winner of all previous testing in this country, Super 104+’s bottle stated we should expect an increase between four and seven point. With a new formula introduced about 12 months ago, identified by an "Eagle" logo on the back of the bottle, the Super 104+ seems to have lost its edge with a marginal gain of just less than 1.0RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.5 (+0.9 RON)

6th

VP Racing C5

355ml treats 75 litres RRP: $19.95

VP has a strong reputation with fuels and its high octane formulas are very popular (VP?) with drag racers. VP Racing’s C5 Fuel Additive lacked any indication of contents nor claims, but the C5 additive still provided a reasonable increase of 1.3RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.1 (+1.3 RON)

5th

NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula

355ml treats 60 litres RRP: $28

NOS, a relatively new octane booster, comes in "1/10th" scale bottles designed to emulate the actual nitrous bottles of its successful NOS systems. The Racing Formula is the strongest of three concentrates and containing Hydrotreated Aliphatics and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (try saying that 10 times in a row), it contains a lead replacement which NOS claims increases the octane rating by as much as seven points. Obviously not recommended for street use, it also included with a handy pouring spout. In testing, it proved a good result improving the octane rating by almost 2RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)

4th

ELF 330 Fuel Stabilizer

1000ml treats 50 litres RRP: $45

"If you spill it on your paintwork, don’t rub it off – rinse it with water" were our works of warning. We were also told to "pre-mix" the ELF before adding it in a fuel tank (which with this test we were doing anyway) as the ELF has a tendency to settle to the bottom of fuel if it’s either not mixed properly or left to sit. This was made somewhat more difficult by the design of the bottle, which tends to drip when pouring. With some nasty stuff known as Aniline, the ELF doesn’t claim any numbers, and provided a decent 1.8 RON point improvement.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)

3rd

Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost

354ml treats 57 litres RRP: $23

Recommended for off-road and racing use, the Amsoil Series 2000 claimed to increase the octane rating by up to seven points. It came up a little short, but still proved surprisingly good with a full 2.0 RON improvement. And good enough for the bronze medal in our Octane Booster Olympics.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.8 (+2.0 RON)

2nd

Toluene (Toluol)

20 litres treats 100 litres RRP: $48

Since toluene (pronounced toll-you-een – also known as methyl benzine) isn’t a commercially advertised octane booster. We were unsure of exactly what ratio to mix the clear Toluene to the fuel, with recommendations between 10 and 30 percent. From personal experience, we have seen high percentages increase octane even further, though 30 percent is considered the maximum. Available only from various fuel distributors (it is a special order through services stations), under advice we ran a 20 percent mix (quite a lot more than the others) and saw an impressive improvement of 2.5 RON, for the silver medal.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.3 (+2.5 RON)

1st

NF Octane Booster Racing Formula

250 ml treats 80 litres RRP: $29.95

Time for an Aussie-made product. From Perth, the NF Octane Booster Racing Formula was the smallest bottle in the field, but looking at the mixing ratio, also the strongest NF relies on an incredibly small dose – a mere 3 percent! Claiming to increase octane as much as 6.0 RON, NF took the gold medal in a surprising tie. If it were a split decision based on concentration though, it would be the clear winner.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)

1st

Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster

500 ml treats 60 litres RRP: $20.95

Note: Also available in four-litre container for $110

The Australian-made Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster is the top of the range Nulon fuel product, claiming to boost octane "up to seven number". The Pro Strength gained a test-winning, gold-medal-gaining and Nf-equalling 2.8RON increase. And at $21, it’s good value too!

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)

VP Motorsport 103 fuel

Used straight fuel (20-litre minimum) RRP: $70

Purely for interest, we decided to also test a straight racing fuel. While there are a number available (such as ELF) for no particular reason we chose VP. The highest octane VP fuel which was still totally street-legal was the Motorsport 103. Working out at $3.50 per litre and "designed for maximum power and throttle response", the VP was very impressive with an octane rating of 107RON – more than 10RON points more than PULP. Obviously more expensive than the boosters, if octane is problem, racing fuel like VP may be the answer.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 107 (+10.2RON)

As the name suggests, a knock engine is designed to test the detonation or anti-knock rating of fuels and fuel additives. It’s a slow revving engine capable of running most fossil fuels through an adjustable compression ratio. As the comp ratio increases, it accurately measures the intensity of the knock and determines the fuel’s octane rating.

The world standard is a one-cylinder two-valve four-stroke engine with exposed valve gear. Archaic in appearance, a carby is fed from any one of three fuel bowls to allow three different fuels to be run back to back. The mixture is actually controlled via gravity feed and by raising or lowering the float level of each bowl!

Run under load via a belt-drive linking the flywheel and load system, it ensures a real world situation and ensuring minimal variation between tests, oil temperature, intake air density and air temperature are all monitored and controlled.

The engine is somewhat agricultural, however its unique ability to vary the compression ratio while running between 5.0:1 and 15.0:1 is quite amazing. The operator simply winds a handle and the entire head and cylinder assembly moves up and down relative to the crankshaft.

A knock sensor measures both the frequency and intensity of the ping (as displayed on a knock metre). Figures are then cross-referenced on a chart using the information provided by the knock meter, plus the height of the head and barrel.

Finally, knock intensity is figured in and the fuel’s octane rating determined.

Taking two hours to warm, this $200,000 engine is super robust and rarely needs rebuilding. Individual tests can then proceed at approximately $120 per test sample.

Being subjected to so much detonation, you can only imagine how much maintenance an engine of this nature must need. Interestingly, this isn’t the case as the piston and rod assembly are rejects from a monstrous ship engine (just kidding)! They’re frigging huge with the incredibly thick piston crown contributing to a combined gudgeon pin and piston weight of 1794 grams! Likewise, the rod weighs an astonishing 1929 grams. The bottom line is these engines which have replacement value of over $200,000 and almost never require rebuilding.

DYNO BOOSTERS

Ultimately, the role of an octane booster, is to regain horsepower lost through detonation or retarded ignition timing due to detonation. But two of our products, the nitro additives, weren’t specifically designed to increase octane. Instead, they contain a mix of nitromethane (the petrol Top Fuellers run) in a "percentage" concentrate. Power Fuel’s Super Street and Max Race additives has 20-percent and 35-percent nitro respectively, and the Australian importer specifically claimed they would increase power, not necessarily octane.

So, we took those two products, and the two best-performing octane boosters to MRT Performance for some Dyno Dynamics dyno testing. Interestingly, we were going to use MRT’s rally Civic, which normally runs on avgas. On PULP – even with the booster – it was pinging too much, so a Jap-spec EF Honda Civic was used with a 1.6-litre VTEC and about 10.0:1 comp ratio.

The graphs tell the story though, and to be fair to the products, with variables such as heat soak, the results weren’t as conclusive as could be gained from an engine dyno. But that is not to say the products don’t work. As our test prove, they do, but it’s not as easily measured on a chassis dyno. Plus the Civic had no detonation problems on PULP, further hampering the "apparent" effectiveness of the boosters.

With changes too small to accurately measure, we would suggest if your engine is sensitive to octane, a booster is for you. If not, try the nitro or racing fuels.

CONCLUSION

Both the Nulon Pro Strength and the NF Racing Formula rated the best octane boosters in our test. And considering that less NF was needed than Nulon, it evens out a little with a slightly higher cost. Still, both proved extremely effective at increasing octane, even outranking Toluene, which needs much higher levels of concentration. The VP Motorsport 103 fuel was an interesting exercise, and if a little more effort (ie: buying it from the selected outlets) is worth the octane, it’s a good representative of what to expect from straight racing fuel. As for the nitro additives, if you’re not experiencing any type of detonation, they’re definitely worth a try. So whether you detonate or not, we’ve found a fuel additive for you!

http://www.dynamic-dyno.com/9-2X/EffectOfOctaneBooster.html
- Focuses on results of using The Outlaw (street legal) octane booster
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 03:57 PM

IMHO...junk. back your timing down a tad and when you go to the track get a few gallons of 110 and have at it.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 04:06 PM

Good info. Thanks, Brad!

It would appear that most additives don't even come close to meeting thier claims. I think I'll stick with my race fuel/pump gas mix plan but I'm gonna print that out for future reference.


Dave
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 04:40 PM

This reaffirms that it's critical to achieve .035-.040" quench via head/gasket/deck height when selecting parts & I won't even consider an open chambered head anymore. With you being already built as said if there's an additive that works or blend in some av gas or race gas whichever ends up being the most cost effective for you.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 06:06 PM

i did research it, brad. did you notice something odd about those reported test results???

The talk about the octane rating in RON. the research number. when you use the R+M/2 method, you can cut those numbers all in half or so. so the claims of gain 2.8 points of octane shrink down to 1 point or so give or take.

my point about them being junk is that they advertise and make people believe they will raise your octane incredible amounts- hence 108 octane.... Thats bs. not even close to what the results are. and when you try and pull that snake oil type marketing bs on me, I call shenanigans.

they should clearly state that they will raise your octane a point- MAYBE and in the real world, you wont realize much from that as a simple adjustment to give you a slightly richer mixture or backing down the timing or adjusting the vacuum advance to come in later or under more vacuum could do the same.
Posted By: RoadRunner

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 09:41 PM

I try to do the race gas/street gas mixture, but on long trips to the nationals, I have used the NOS stuff with positive results. I am on the cusp of being able to get away with 93 Octane, so it seems to work. Of course, I usually have a few gallons of the race/street mix, so I haven't soley relied on it. But is has come through in a pinch.
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 10:03 PM

Eight miles from the airport,101 LL less than $3.75 a gallon,been running it 50/50 for 16yrs.They'll sell me all I want,just won't pump it in the tank..
Posted By: GMP440

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/11/08 11:23 PM

How is the Moroso brand of octane boosters? Any tests on that one?
Posted By: HealthServices

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/12/08 12:07 AM

Moroso is just about the worst for eating things up like rubber lines.

Does boost octane though.
Posted By: dd340

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 03:18 AM

Do yourself a favour and get this stuff if you need an octane boost. http://www.kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4

It is called octane supreme 130 and it works great because it has real lead in it. They are a chemical supply company that's mixes up an octane booster for "off road use" but I can tell you that it works really well. It is the same stuff they used to add to the hi-test in the 60's which is know as Ethyl. I would recommend that you use the best gas you can and then add 1-2 ounces/gallon. That should give you plenty of octane. I always have trouble with pinging until I bought a case of this stuff. When compared to mixing racing gas it might not be as cost effective but at least you can carry around a bottle and when you fill up at any gas station just mix some in. I think the other ocatane boosters that use chemical ingredients like MMT will also work but they don't seem as cost effective plus they dont have lead that the older engines like. If the booster is made from xylene or toluene, forget about it because those little bottles just won't be enough to make a difference in a big tank of gas.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 02:17 PM

Octane boosters, not lead or even MMT, work by averaging your octane.

IOW, if your gasoline has 92 octane and you put in 16 oz of booster with 115 (for example) octane you get a miniscule bump in octane.

You can do better, and cheaper, by running Ketone or other high octance hydrocarbons in your gas. Heck a gallon of Methanol or better yet ethanol will do more than a bottle of octane boost.

Lead, and to a lesser extent MMT, work differently by chemically altering the gasoline molecule to make it more resistant to lighting off, not by raisng the octane level though the effect is the same.

Octane is rated on a special test motor that can vary the compression ratio. The difference in MON and RON numbers is the temperature of the air charge coming in, essentially.
Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 02:26 PM

I get all my gas from the airport thats 15 miuntes away. 108LL for $3.49/gallon. Been getting it there for 12 years.
Posted By: 360view

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 03:10 PM

thanks for the web link to that tetra-ethyl lead supplier,
I will add that to my archive

Here is an archived article with info on another tetra-ethyl lead supplier that may (or may not) still offer it in bulk:

====

Lead additives
Chicago Tribune, Motormouth columnist Bob Weber

Q - Do you know of any sources for purchasing a lead additive for antique
autos? I picked up a 1963 Wildcat convertible in excellent condition with only
53,000 miles on it. I also have two friends in a car club who are interested
in a lead additive. They have'52 and '56 Cadillacs. We each drive about
600-1000 miles a year.

A - Gasoline used to contain a compound called tetraethyl lead, but due to
health hazards, it was removed. Although you cannot buy this stuff over the
counter, I found a distributor in Columbus, Ind. that sells it by the gallon
($22.95 per gallon) by mail. Although it isn't cheap, about 12 ounces treats
20 gallons of premium gas. "Max Lead 2000" is available from Vogel Products,
812-376-2775. They offer quantity discounts to car clubs.

There are other products available at most auto parts stores, but they are
lead substitutes and may contain a variety of other chemical compounds
including phosphates, sulfates, sodium and so on.

However, with as little driving as you and your friends do, and considering
that you probably baby your cars rather than race them, you probably need
nothing. Your engines will probably see no valve recession for many, many
years.
=======
Posted By: 360view

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 03:14 PM

on the subject of pinging and octane
here is another archived post
with two different people's
Rules of Thumb
about different engine settings
=====

Several days ago I posted Jim Bell of Kenne Bell Company's
'rules of thumb'
about octane, temperatures and pressure effects on engines.

Here are some quotes from a recent article on engine knock,
written by an engineer who just finished doing his Master's Thesis on Engine
Detonation at an Austrailan University.

I have converted the metric temperatures and pressures in the original article
to good old psi and degrees F. Words inside { } are my comments.

begin quotes
-----------------

"Causes Of Knock
As discussed, for a given engine the type of fuel is the most important factor
in promoting or preventing end-gas autoignition, also known as 'knock' or
pinging. The following guidelines show how various engine operating parameters
affect the fuel octane requirement of an engine. The higher the octane
requirement, the more likely an engine is to knock for a given fuel.

Effect On Octane Requirement
(ON = octane number)

Spark advance
1 ON per 1 degree Spark Advance
{ Jim Bell rule was 0.5 to 0.75 ON per 1 degree Spark Advance}

Intake air temperature
1 ON per 13 degrees F
{ Jim Bell rule was 1 ON per 20 degrees F}

Air/Fuel ratio
Chance of knocking Peaks at around 5% rich of stoichiometric {about 14 to 1}

Decrease of around 2 ON per A/F ratio around peak

{ so richening a Magnum engine from 14.7 at cruise, to 11.7 at WOT like the
factory PCM programing does, has an effect like switching gasoline from 87
octane to [14.7 - 11.7] x 2 + 87 = 93 octane. The extra rich mixture at WOT
is apparently an attempt by Dodge to reduce pinging. I wonder if the 'Reflash'
of the PCM computer by the Dodge dealer not only retards timing but also
richens the WOT mixture even more ? Jim Bell rule was also 2 ON per 1 A/F
change}

Intake Pressure
3-4 ON per 1.4 psi
{ so if a KN filter/inlet system actually lets more air pressure get to the
intake manifold this would INCREASE the tendency to ping. Jim Bell rule was
1.4 ON = 1.4 psi increase. Since 14.7 psi is atmospheric pressure and is also
equal to 30 inches of mercury 'barometric presssure' or 400 inches of water
pressure, then if you have a vacuum/boost gauge fitted to engine you can judge
how intake mods have affected your engine's need for higher octane gasoline. }

Compression Ratio
5 ON per 1.0 Compression Ratio increase/decrease

{ Jim Bell rule was 3 ON per 1 CR increase. The Mopar Performance PCM
computer advances the ignition timing by something between 12 and 9 degrees.
A better way to get both hp and better MPG would have been to raise the
5.2/5.9 V8 compression ratio from 8.9 to about 9.9 with a head gasket change.
The 4.7V8 has a compression ratio of 9.0, but with two sparkplugs per cylinder
and knock sensors the 5.7Hemi was designed for 9.6}

Exhaust back pressure
1 ON per 4 psi
{ so a low restriction exhaust system may increase pinging very slightly, and
a quick fix to reduce pinging might be to put a big dent in the exhaust pipe.
A stock 1995 5.9V8 has about 7 psi of backpressure at full throttle at 4000
rpm.}

Coolant temperature
1 ON per 18 degrees F
{ Jim Bell rule was 1 ON per 10 degrees. The 180 degree thermostat change
that is so highly touted lowers the coolant temperature by about 15 degrees
from the stock 195, so its effect is small - like putting 88 octane in instead
of 87 octane.}

Similar ON effect for cylinder head and engine block temperature.
{ so removing the rubber strip from the firewall cowl on a Ram truck may
slightly reduce the tendency to knock too}

For naturally aspirated engines, the two main design and tuning parameters
given in the table are the compression ratio and the spark advance. For an
engine at wide open throttle (maximum inlet manifold pressure) and normal
operating temperature; these two parameters, if increased, are then
proportionally the most likely to produce knocking combustion.

Detection Of Knock
There are several ways of detecting when knock is occurring in an engine. Only
some methods, however, are capable of measuring the knock intensity.

1. Sound of Knock
Knock is audible to the average human ear when more than about 10% of total
engine cycles knock. The human ear is the most obvious and readily available
device to detect knock. The ear is surprisingly sensitive and routinely used
in determining the octane requirement of an engine. The sound of knock is best
described as a sharp metallic "ping". This sound is caused by the high
pressure and frequency waves impacting against the cylinder walls, giving rise
to a ringing knock as though they had been struck by a light hammer. The
ringing noise is worsened by the way in which the energy of the pressure wave
is not completely absorbed when it first contacts the chamber wall. Instead,
the wave is only slightly diminished and then reflected back across the
chamber, continuing this process until all the energy is lost to the engine
structure as vibration or dissipated through the gas.

2. Sight and Pressure of Knock
A high-intensity flash is observed in the cylinder when knock occurs. This
facilitates the use of optical probes and ionisation detectors to measure at
least the presence of knock if not its intensity. Much of what we know about
combustion today has come from the analysis of photographs taken using
high-speed cameras as first successfully developed in 1941. More recently, as
the technology has become widely available, direct measurement of cylinder
pressures during combustion has been used to study knock. Direct pressure
measurement allows the study of the actual intensity of knock. The
piezoelectric pressure transducer has been the standard sensor for some time.
Typical pressure traces from a cylinder experiencing knocking and non-knocking
operation were shown earlier.

A major obstacle in developing feasible combustion pressure sensors has been
to overcome sensor performance degradation caused by high combustion
temperatures and strong electromagnetic interference (EMI) from sparkplug
wires. So far, due to inherent material limitations, conventional
piezoelectric type combustion pressure sensors cannot operate over 200°C
without water-cooling. In addition, signal conditioning electronics must
usually be located near the sensor head to combat the strong EMI and stray
capacitance loading effects of spark-plug leads."
-----------------
end quote
Posted By: dd340

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 08:33 PM

Quote:

Octane boosters, not lead or even MMT, work by averaging your octane.

IOW, if your gasoline has 92 octane and you put in 16 oz of booster with 115 (for example) octane you get a miniscule bump in octane.

You can do better, and cheaper, by running Ketone or other high octance hydrocarbons in your gas. Heck a gallon of Methanol or better yet ethanol will do more than a bottle of octane boost.

Lead, and to a lesser extent MMT, work differently by chemically altering the gasoline molecule to make it more resistant to lighting off, not by raisng the octane level though the effect is the same.

Octane is rated on a special test motor that can vary the compression ratio. The difference in MON and RON numbers is the temperature of the air charge coming in, essentially.




this isnt really accurate. Gas companies include various chemicals to increase the Anti Knock Index (AKI) of their fuels. In the past the main reason that TEL was added to fuel was to increase the octane in the fuel. Now they use various other chemicals. By adding just 1 or 2 grams or lead per galon will definately have a big impact on your fuel's octance and therefore the AKI. This is the same reason that so many race fuels still use TEL.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 09:48 PM

True, I was generalizing. Didn't want to get into a big chemical structure analysis. But generally speaking what I said holds up.
Posted By: CtownChris

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/13/08 11:58 PM

Kemco's Octane booster is $20.75 a quart.
32 oz in a quart and they rec 8oz octane boost per gallon. At that rate a $20.75 bottle will treat 4 frigin gallons! That raises 93 to 101 octane. (8 pts)
Same amount boost in 8 gallons will raise octane from 93 to 97. (4 pts)
One quart Kemco boost in 16 gallons will get you 95 octane. For $20.75?
There site says "will get 2-16 point increase in octane" If you use a full quart for every 2 gallons you'll get 16 pt octane improvemnt.

The local Speedway sells Race fuel. I think 110 octane. I just fill a 5 gallon can and add it to my tank.

My street 383 runs just fine on BP (Amoco fuel)premium. I put a few gallons 110 in once in a while anyway. Maybe waste of money but it's not $20.75 a quart.
Talk to your local speed shops I bet they know all the local places the sell Race fuel other than a track or airport.

It seems ALL octane boost is a waste of money.
I guess if you carry a quart on Kemco boost in your trunk it might be of use in an emergency. Like the only open gas station only has 87 octane.
Posted By: STROKIE

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/14/08 12:38 AM

Quote:

Now that my 340 is running and I've taken it out a couple of times playing w/ the distributor timing. It does ping when I step on it. I have premium pump gas in it.
While @ the Advance Auto Parts store I was reading the labels on the octane booster products.
1 bottle per tank etc.
Does this stuff work?
thanks

If you can, use AV Gaz...
It is interesting to note that "100-Low-Lead" actually contains more than FOUR TIMES the lead which was in Sunoco-260, one of the highest-octane fuels ever produced for street-use automobiles.

I used it in my Dodge Charger since years
My c/r is 11.5 to 1 and never had any problems
with this fuel.
Use it if you can
Posted By: wildman340

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/14/08 05:16 AM

Quote:

Kemco's Octane booster is $20.75 a quart.
32 oz in a quart and they rec 8oz octane boost per gallon. At that rate a $20.75 bottle will treat 4 frigin gallons! That raises 93 to 101 octane. (8 pts)
Same amount boost in 8 gallons will raise octane from 93 to 97. (4 pts)
One quart Kemco boost in 16 gallons will get you 95 octane. For $20.75?
There site says "will get 2-16 point increase in octane" If you use a full quart for every 2 gallons you'll get 16 pt octane improvemnt.

The local Speedway sells Race fuel. I think 110 octane. I just fill a 5 gallon can and add it to my tank.

My street 383 runs just fine on BP (Amoco fuel)premium. I put a few gallons 110 in once in a while anyway. Maybe waste of money but it's not $20.75 a quart.
Talk to your local speed shops I bet they know all the local places the sell Race fuel other than a track or airport.

It seems ALL octane boost is a waste of money.
I guess if you carry a quart on Kemco boost in your trunk it might be of use in an emergency. Like the only open gas station only has 87 octane.




Where did you find the mixing ratio on their site? Max Lead 2000 is the same kind of o/b just a different company and they suggest 24oz per 20 gals of 93 for 101 octane. 8 oz per gal mixing seems excessive. BTW, if you buy it by the case, 12 qts, it is a little over $10 per qt.
Posted By: dd340

Re: Parts store octane booster question - 12/14/08 02:30 PM

Quote:

Kemco's Octane booster is $20.75 a quart.
32 oz in a quart and they rec 8oz octane boost per gallon. At that rate a $20.75 bottle will treat 4 frigin gallons! That raises 93 to 101 octane. (8 pts)
Same amount boost in 8 gallons will raise octane from 93 to 97. (4 pts)
One quart Kemco boost in 16 gallons will get you 95 octane. For $20.75?
There site says "will get 2-16 point increase in octane" If you use a full quart for every 2 gallons you'll get 16 pt octane improvemnt.

The local Speedway sells Race fuel. I think 110 octane. I just fill a 5 gallon can and add it to my tank.

My street 383 runs just fine on BP (Amoco fuel)premium. I put a few gallons 110 in once in a while anyway. Maybe waste of money but it's not $20.75 a quart.
Talk to your local speed shops I bet they know all the local places the sell Race fuel other than a track or airport.

It seems ALL octane boost is a waste of money.
I guess if you carry a quart on Kemco boost in your trunk it might be of use in an emergency. Like the only open gas station only has 87 octane.




the mixing ratio is not 8oz per gallon, it is more like 1-2 oz per gallon and that is enough TEL to boost the octane in 1 gallon from 93 to about 96, plus the cost per bottle is much less if you buy a case which brings the cost down to about $10 per bottle, it is actualy quite cost effective.
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