piston selection help?

Posted By: moparsquid

piston selection help? - 07/15/13 01:44 AM

just got done tearing down my new (so i thought) 500 stroker to find it had a scat crank 4.150 strk with ly rods and 30 over 400 pistons in it wich would explain why it sat in the whole. the cast piston cheepies had cracked on the oil ring lands now i need new pistons is there a good set i can use that wont set me back 600$ im on a real budget and i dont think the guy who sold it to me will cough up some doe to repair it,some help and sugestions from anyone who has gone thru this situation please. thanks

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 02:37 AM

440 block or 400 block Stayng with the LY rods??

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 03:11 AM

its a 440 block thats 50 over,as i was told coz it has 400 30 over pistons in it

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 03:15 AM

Call the cops on that cheap cheater, at least make him sweat a little

Only a real fool would use a set of stock type 440 rods with a new sroker crank

You probally won't find a cheap set of decent forged pistons for your stroker deal, sorry

Your best bet is to contact 440 Source and see if they can help you on getting some decent pistons for your deal

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 03:44 AM

thanks im going to confront the builder with the facts and see if he's willing to make wrongs right

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 01:51 PM

well that comes out to 498 cubic inches. being .060 down the hole on a 498 stroker is not such a bad thing.

Are the pistons flat top no valve relief?? (I'm guessing flat top)

Anyway with a fel pro composition gasket and 84 CC heads 10.4 to 1 compression. 76 CC head 11.2 to 1

What Kind of heads. the least expensive option would be another set of
cast pistons
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-406ap

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sterling1.html

Now if he balaced it (and I said if) you may be close enough to go as is but I think I would balance.

If the LY rods were not resized and ARP rod bolts added then the cost involved you may as well buy these and do it right

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6760c3d/overview/make/chrysler

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/corodse1.html

990 pin
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6760b3d/overview/make/chrysler

Basically you got just the crank out of a stroker kit?? LY rods everyone has laying around lucky to get $50 a set.

You should go with a forged piston, new rods and balance this would require finish honing .005 more. and require the .990 pin rod
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic840-055

so the only cheap way to get up and running would be the seal power pistons .

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 02:03 PM

the pistons are cast flat top and im useing 75cc chamber eddy victor max heads with a x-ram,thanks

Posted By: dogdays

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 05:24 PM

Just to clear up a couple of points.....

The original 440 strokers used the 4.15 crank, LY rods and 400 pistons. That's from back in the day when any real 440 stroker pistons would have been custom and $$$$$.

Lots of engines were built that way.

Lots of sets of LY rods have been into the 10s. I bet lots of cast pistons, too.

So I don't think you got less than what you were told. It sounds like a pretty nice street engine to me.

Did he specifically tell you the engine had aftermarket forged pistons or rods? I bet you ASSUMED that, because that's how most strokers are built nowadays. I also bet you haggled on the price.

The main reason for cracked piston ring lands is improper assembly of piston into block. It's a workmanship problem, not a material problem.

R.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 05:29 PM

So your at so your presently somewhere between 11.1 and 11.3 to one assuming a fel pro composition gasket just fine with aluminum heads.

So do do it on the cheap these pistons
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-406ap

new rings
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-e-318k30/overview/

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 05:49 PM

thanks your correct i asumed coz i thought that the kit was a moscle motors or a 440 source one.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 06:01 PM

So how was the short block price?? new or used??

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 07:09 PM

i paid for a new(so i was told ) stroker kit and paid about 5-or 6 thousand all together with the heads the eddy heads cost a extra 14 hundo just for the t&d rockers and pushrods wich bumped up the price.it seems that maybe this was a used motor coz i could see the factory head gasket pentastar on the block still. and i still cant cross check the cam that was in it.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 08:20 PM

How many miles did you put on it???

So 7400 all together or 5000 to 6000 with victor heads.

Check the rings for butting it's such a low buck build probably not balanced and may have put + .060 rings in maybe that's whats pulling the pistons apart.

cross hatching still on the cylinder walls. did it have steel or composition gaskets.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 08:29 PM

Pictures of everything lots of pictures?

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 08:44 PM

Cast pistons, LY rods, and... TD rockers?

Doesn't seem to match up on quality and cost.

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 09:45 PM

5-6 thousand total and i only put mayby 2 miles on it,yea i know i just drove it around the block about 4 times when i started to get problems. it has cross hatch on the walls and it had felpro fel1009 head gaskets

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/15/13 09:46 PM

Quote:

Pictures of everything lots of pictures?

ill try and get some pics today and ill post it later

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 12:32 AM

wow 2 miles either it was well used or something else hear??

Check the ends of the top to rings to see if they butted?? They will show shiny polished look if they did should be able to see.

any scrapping on the cylinder walls??

Are they real edelbrock heads or the Chinese I'm a knock offs??

all the cam lobes look OK?? Hydraulic and way to measure it take it out and measure the width and the hieght of the lobes difference may tell you a bit

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 12:59 AM

ther seems to be some scuffing of the walls but looks like itll clean up with a light hone im gona check later and take some pics was told the can didnt have good readings on them like the lobes were not all the same but didnt seem like alot of wear they are the real eddy's got them from mazolinis it seems that they were not set up correctly seems that the springs needed to be shimmed and werent cozzing them to move around alot was told it could be fixed. and also the cost of the rockers were high coz t&d was the only one making rockers for this head at the time i got it

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 01:17 PM

Make sure you check them top rings for butting!

what kind of troubles was it giving you?

If that's all you did everything should still look brand new.

Posted By: drew72

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 01:51 PM

I'm just waiting to hear the rest of the story.

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 06:12 PM

at first it was excesive blowby then i dropped two valves,pulled thru the retainers now its two cracked pistons ill try and get pics later today

Posted By: R/T Lee

Re: piston selection help? - 07/16/13 10:51 PM

Wow I think I would go right back to who u bought it from, And do a custom stroked out kit on his head!!

I wouldn't do anything else to it, and try like hell to get your money back!! I hate hearing stories like this.

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/17/13 01:17 AM

Quote:

Wow I think I would go right back to who u bought it from, And do a custom stroked out kit on his head!! I wouldn't do anything else to it, and try like hell to get your money back!! I hate hearing stories like this.

I agree and here's the kicker ,he's a long time friend . I do plan to confront him but I know what the results will be.....stay tuned for future events

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: piston selection help? - 07/17/13 01:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Wow I think I would go right back to who u bought it from, And do a custom stroked out kit on his head!! I wouldn't do anything else to it, and try like hell to get your money back!! I hate hearing stories like this.

I agree and here's the kicker ,he's a long time friend . I do plan to confront him but I know what the results will be.....stay tuned for future events

I wouldn't CONFRONT him , I would go there and TALK to him and find out what he is going to do to make it right .

Posted By: dogdays

Re: piston selection help? - 07/17/13 04:18 PM

Gotta agree with JohnRR, the best approach is to park your emotions at the door. Be as calm as possible, say things like, "We've got a problem and I wondering what you are going to do to make it right."

Also, and this is important, know what you want and can reasonably get as a remedy. You for sure need new pistons, as some have cracked oil ring lands by your description.
You need to find out how the engine was assembled. Were the rods gone through with new rod bolts? Was it balanced? Stuff like that. Know some ballpark prices for parts, like you'd find in a 440Source catalog.
And keep the personal invective out of it. He (and you) may well know that he's a lyin' piece of s@#$ but you don't need to tell him. That won't get the job any closer to done.

I know how hard this is, I haven't been the best at following my own advice. But it seems that when I do, it turns out better.

R.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/17/13 05:44 PM

If they are edelbrock victor heads the springs, keepers and retainers have to be purchased and installed later. The keepers pulling through the retainer would seem indicative of Cheap Chinese parts and or springs going to coil bind and that causing the damage.

Your lucky a valve never dropped or snapped the stem off and thus dropping anyways.

I think you have lots of checking and work to do to make things right you may as well start with premium rods and pistons hone balance and go from there.

Posted By: zrxkawboy

Re: piston selection help? - 07/17/13 11:34 PM

I think I would just plain ask him for my money back, and he can have his engine back.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: piston selection help? - 07/18/13 12:55 AM

I suspect that there is a lot more to this story, and drawing any conclusions on a small portion of half of the story is simply silly.

Enough statements by the OP have me scratching my head.

To the OP, your lowest cost option is to by more 400 pistons.

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 03:21 AM

here are some pics ,I was shocked at the bad bearings

Attached picture 7781848-image(2).jpeg

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 03:22 AM

another

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 03:24 AM

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 03:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Wow I think I would go right back to who u bought it from, And do a custom stroked out kit on his head!! I wouldn't do anything else to it, and try like hell to get your money back!! I hate hearing stories like this.

I agree and here's the kicker ,he's a long time friend . I do plan to confront him but I know what the results will be.....stay tuned for future events

I wouldn't CONFRONT him , I would go there and TALK to him and find out what he is going to do to make it right .

when i said confront i didnt mean in an agressive manner i ment bring it to his attention to let him know what has transpired

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 01:11 PM

Did you check the rings for butting?

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/19/13 01:47 PM

yes and they seem to be okay as for fit

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: piston selection help? - 07/20/13 02:20 PM

.022 to .024 end gap and no shinny on the but ends?

Posted By: moparsquid

Re: piston selection help? - 07/20/13 10:06 PM

I havnt checked the end gap with a guage ,just visual ill do that when i get a chance and get pics also,thanks