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Best carb and intake for my 440?

Posted By: Adam71Charger

Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 08:08 PM

The machine shop is almost done with my short block and heads, so I need to start thinking of the right carb and intake for my setup.

440 .030 over
stock forged steel crank
440 source forged steel rods
ross forged aluminum pistons, flat w/valve reliefs
rotating assembly balanced
about 10.2:1 compression
Cloyes Billet double roller hex adjust timing chain set
Comp cams solid lifters with EDM hole #2901-16
Cam is custom comp grind. Mechanical flat tappet. Duration @50 is 244 intake 252 exhaust, valve lift is .52 intake .54 exhaust, 108 lob separation.

Ported Eddy RPM Heads
comp cams ultra pro magnum bushed steel rockers with roller tips

The car is a heavy; 4000lb with driver 1971 B body. It has a dana 60 with 4.11, posi. We havent selected wheels and tires yet, most likely large street radials. The car is for street and road racing.

Because Im not a carb expert, I was looking at an edelbrock 1813 800cfm thunder avs carb. They are easy to tune. There are so many Holleys I dont know where to begin.

As for intake, comp recommended a single plane which confused me a bit, I thought for sure they'd recommend a dual plane. Im looking at an edelbrock performer RPM #7193, or Torker II #5091. If I get a dual plane intake, I think I'll also try using a tapered spacer from Wilson.

Ideas? Thanks
Posted By: dOc !

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 08:22 PM

Intake ? ... a Street Dominator
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 08:36 PM

I have built, raced and dyno tuned a bunch of motors very similar to yours, stock stroke 440 motors, 470 HP to 535 HP on CA pump gas. I have tested a Eddy Torquer II, then a Eddy Perfomer RPM and finally a Mopar M1 single plane on the same engine, same day, same carb with no other changes, three hours total time differences between them on a DTS engine dyno in Ontario, CA.
The RPM intake makes more HP and torque below 5500 RPM than either of the single plane intakes
I buy all the used Performer RPM I can find (for future builds ) for the 440 motors
On your deal I would buy a new Holley 950 HP(they are not a true 950 CFM, more like 880 CFM ) and a Performer RPM intake, make sure and check the intake fit to the motor before bolting it on, it may need to be cut to make it fit your motor properly (PM me if you have any questions on that )
That combination(carb and intake) flat works very well on the street and at the drag strip I use to race NHRA stock class with both 426 Hemi motors and Max wedges with the dual stock type Carter carbs, their not a good choice for todays use, same comment on the Eddy carbs or there replacement carbs.
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 08:45 PM

Is this the carb?

950 CFM Four Barrel
Street/Strip Carburetor
PART #: 0-82951
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 09:27 PM

Quote:

The car is for street and road racing.





Explain road racing ?

Also a spacer on the intake of choice , do you have adequate hood clearance ?

A dual plane would be the best , with all the issues as of late with fuel and carter style carbs a holley gets the nod , something in the range of a 750dp , a 650 would give better throttle response. Electric fuel pump with a return style regulator for any carb system/choice.

If the budget allows a drop on , self contained, fuel injection throttle body style system on top of the RPM ...
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 10:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The car is for street and road racing.





Explain road racing ?

Also a spacer on the intake of choice , do you have adequate hood clearance ?

A dual plane would be the best , with all the issues as of late with fuel and carter style carbs a holley gets the nod , something in the range of a 750dp , a 650 would give better throttle response. Electric fuel pump with a return style regulator for any carb system/choice.

If the budget allows a drop on , self contained, fuel injection throttle body style system on top of the RPM ...



Road race: racing people on the street, flooring it often, braking hard, turning hard, fun stuff like that.. like smokey and the bandit without the jumps.

As for hood clearance, even if I dont have it, I dont mind driving without a hood until I order a hood that fits.

I dont mind some low end torque loss, I will be buying a converter to best match my engine and goals. I want the car to be as fast as possible but still somewhat driveable in a parking lot
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/10/13 11:59 PM

Performer RPM with a 800 cfm Edelbrock carb will work just fine on that engine. Get it on a chassis dyno with an O2 setup when it is running and dial in the fuel curve. Once you do that it should be a great combo. Hot start can be an issue with the Edelbrock carbs so if you have room use a phenolic spacer.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 12:01 AM

FYI, there is a thing called road racing, and it is not what you described, as I bet that is why John asked.

With that weight and cam, I would start with the RPM, if it meets your fitment needs.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 12:33 AM

I hope you have some suspension upgrades... that type of racing requires some good stuff. As for carb/intake I'd use and RPm (if it will fit and a holley HP carb... 850-900. That thunder 800 is ok but you will be leaving some on the table.
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 01:05 AM

Mechanical pump, a Carter, a carb spacer, and some REAL fuel mixed-in and you'll be fine...

Been running all of the above in a '71 Ply for years...

Leave the Holley Hassles for somebody else...
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 02:27 AM

I vote for a street dominator with a striped & tuned q-jet.

works great on my 88-440 truck

FYI.the RPM with open adaptor/Q-jet works just as good with the type of "road racing" you describe.

I run that style of race everyday to work and home.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 03:30 AM

Quote:

I vote for a street dominator with a striped & tuned q-jet.

works great on my 88-440 truck

FYI.the RPM with open adaptor/Q-jet works just as good with the type of "road racing" you describe.

I run that style of race everyday to work and home.

Come on now, he ain't driving a truck to work and back OP, on the size of the carb, remember the right foot determine how far the throtle shafts are opened 440 motors love air, the more the better
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 05:33 AM

Wait what other type of road racing is there besides racing on the road? Didn't know there was anything else.

I've got 1.06 torsion bars, I boxed my lower control arms, new pitman/idler and ball joints and bushings, upgraded to the bigger C-body tie rod ends/sleeves, reinforced the k frame and steering box mount, had my ps steering box built by steer and gear and got the extra firm package. New clutch packs and 31 spline axles in the shortened dana. Still need to get sub frame conectors. Anything else I missed?
Posted By: BulletBob

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 06:01 AM

I'll do it for you John



SCCA & a bunch of real road racing organizations that don't endanger people on the street with a 4000# battering Ram

Go around corners with a B body with an engine without suspension that's a no brainer there

Anyway I vote RPM & 950 Holley As it has been said before "A 440 likes a lot of air"
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 07:01 AM

are the street HP holleys as easy to work on as the edelbrocks?
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 07:10 AM

I noticed the street dominator has a lower rise than most single plane intakes I've seen. Does this allow more low end torque to be made than the more high rise single plane intakes like the victor, torker II and M1?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 07:15 AM

Quote:

are the street HP holleys as easy to work on as the edelbrocks?

Both carbs can be work on easily, as long as you understand the different circuits and how they work. It is very easy to change the metering rods on the AFB, AVS style carbs, not so on the jets The Holley style carbs with the screw in air bleeds on the top are very easy to change also, the floats on the Holley type(Quik Fuel, Pro Form and so on)are easier to set on them than the AFB style carbs., squirters are similar to change on both types, the mechanical secondary Holleys have two sets of Squirters(two seperate pumps also ) in them versus one set in the front of the AFBs, the list goes on and on Ultimately EFI is the way to go, if you can afford and understand them
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 12:49 PM

yes you need to tie the frame.. get the weld in connectors that weld up to the floor. You also might need some extra help out back. Not sure if you mentioned it but PST makes a nice front sway bar kit that won't kill your wallet. and I chenged my mind on the intake/car... i think this w/ these would work very well.... especially if you are thinking mpg's and as Cab says, carbs are carbs, take them apart a few times and they are all workable. I find the Holley pretty easy to work with. They only thng I don't like about the carter is they seem to run out of juice at the 1000 foot mark, that's why those that run them, run 2.

Attached picture 7772781-4406a.jpg
Posted By: gch

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 03:36 PM

Quote:

I noticed the street dominator has a lower rise than most single plane intakes I've seen. Does this allow more low end torque to be made than the more high rise single plane intakes like the victor, torker II and M1?



You don't need low end with your gears and a converter.You will never be down that low long enough.

I ran a SD on my 470 with a 1" tapered 4 hole on top of a 1" open spacer and that was the ticket for the most hp on the dyno.The SD does idle a little rougher than a dual plane and that is the only drawback in my opinion.
You will be fine with either the rpm or the SD.The SD would probably respond to a spacer.I like holleys but run what you like and are willing to tune.
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 04:49 PM

I vote for the Performer RPM and a Thunder Series 800cfm carb. I am biased though...I have a Dual Plane Dual Quad intake with two 500 Edelbrocks perched right on top. I love the driveability. I get in and go. I let the engine sit for about a month and turned the key all of 5 seconds and the engine turned over. I havent touched either carb in 18 months. Set it up right and any carburetor will do what you dial it in for. I just don't like getting in there every other month (I remember those days) to work on my 800cfm Holley (on another 440) and a 4bbl 390 (Slant 6), 2bbl 500 (same slant six)....I bolted on a 500cfm Holley to my slant afterwards and it stayed that way for three years without so much as an idle mix adjustment.
Posted By: 82ramIndy493

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 06:03 PM

Either the Edelbrock Performer RPM or INDY dual plane intakes and a BIGS Performance 950 cfm tuned to your engine specs by Jesse would be a great way to go. Once you get it you bolt it on with minor adjusting and your ready to run. For what your planning to do with the car and its weight being on the heavy side it would be best to go dual plane. If your going to gear it for track only and heads flow on the high side then go single plane.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/11/13 09:35 PM

I agree with the RPM or the Holley Street Dominator. The RPM is a very good street/strip intake. The Holley SD is a very good single Plane intake as it has good low end like a dual plane with good top end. I ran a SD on my old 440 and it worked very good. I now use the Indy dual plane which looks like the Performer RPM but with larger ports. Either the RPM or SD would work good as will the Indy dual plane intake. As for a carb I agree the 950 is a good carb. That said I use a standard Holley 850 DP which works good on my 63's 440/493. It would most likey go a bit faster with the 950 but this 850 works and drives great. Ron
Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/12/13 02:10 AM

after seeing some intakes for cheap on craigslist I had a brilliant idea. Get both and try them out.

As for Holley carbs, I saw 3 different 950 hp models. Whats the difference between them?

950 HP, 0-80496-1
950 Street HP, 0-82951
950 Ultra HP, 0-80805BK
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Best carb and intake for my 440? - 07/12/13 07:19 AM

I have the Performer RPM with a Holley 770 Ultra HP carb on the 505" stroked 440. The carb is a bit small, but I will be replacing the intake and carb soon with the Edelbrock Pro-Flow XT fuel injection system.
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