Posted By: jjdirt
440 heads - 05/04/13 07:18 PM
how good are mopar stage 6 heads and how do they stack up compared to edelbrock and 440 source---for a 500 stroker thanks
440 heads
Posted By: Molloy
Re: 440 heads - 05/04/13 07:41 PM
I don't know about 2013, but for many years in the past folks said that they were a good design but the atrociously bad quality control made them practically unusable out of the box.
Posted By: sam64
Re: 440 heads - 05/04/13 10:41 PM
Quote:been in the high tens on a 440 and 470 in my 3300 belvedere.just minor blending and good valve job.been beat on for 10 years,these were 10.5 compression engines.
how good are mopar stage 6 heads and how do they stack up compared to edelbrock and 440 source---for a 500 stroker thanks
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 440 heads - 05/05/13 01:28 AM
Well, lessee. Here are OOTB flow figures for the heads you are asking about, all from the same flowbench, using 2.14 intake valve.
Lift......STG VI....STG VI MW...Stealth....RPM
.100........66...........61...........66..........73
.200......144..........144.........142.........148
.300......175..........188.........205.........209
.400......206..........232.........240.........254
.500......226..........256.........255.........276
.600......236..........257.........267.........287
.700......240..........261.........268.........291
The Stage VI & VI MW are most work to set up. Properly prepared the STG VI Max Wedge has the most potential for 500 ci. None of them should be bolted on right out of the box.
Lift......STG VI....STG VI MW...Stealth....RPM
.100........66...........61...........66..........73
.200......144..........144.........142.........148
.300......175..........188.........205.........209
.400......206..........232.........240.........254
.500......226..........256.........255.........276
.600......236..........257.........267.........287
.700......240..........261.........268.........291
The Stage VI & VI MW are most work to set up. Properly prepared the STG VI Max Wedge has the most potential for 500 ci. None of them should be bolted on right out of the box.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 heads - 05/05/13 05:42 PM
Quote:
Well, lessee. Here are OOTB flow figures for the heads you are asking about, all from the same flowbench, using 2.14 intake valve.
Lift......STG VI....STG VI MW...Stealth....RPM
.100........66...........61...........66..........73
.200......144..........144.........142.........148
.300......175..........188.........205.........209
.400......206..........232.........240.........254
.500......226..........256.........255.........276
.600......236..........257.........267.........287
.700......240..........261.........268.........291
The Stage VI & VI MW are most work to set up. Properly prepared the STG VI Max Wedge has the most potential for 500 ci. None of them should be bolted on right out of the box.
this tells the story , stage 6 heads were a good thought by mopar that was POORLY executed. they don't flow much better than stock because the engineer involved thought raising the intake port and using the stock length bb wedge head valve was a good idea.
OP , low deck build or raised deck ? are the stage 6's in question box fresh or are you buying them used ?
The enginemaster head team managed to get 340ish cfm at .700 out of a stock port size stage 6 , but it would cost one 5k to duplicate that effort ...
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: 440 heads - 05/05/13 06:33 PM
Read this thread found in the Moparts Tech Archive...........
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/33.html
As cast/delivered OOTB they flow pretty poor, but once ported, properly, they can be pretty good.
Tell us what foundry casting logo you have on your heads and we can tell you what era they were cast. The EARLY "Winters" heads were the ones prone to casting inconsistencies.
If you are buying a used set that will need to be freshened, then price them accordingly and any machining issues will get fixed when you update them.
Some Stage VI'ers require offset rockers, some don't.
The factory cast iron Max Wedgies used the same standard length valves and they run a pretty good number w/o a raised port. Yeah, they had a bigger intake port window but a Stage VI can be opened up to that size too. They were offered that way too.
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/33.html
As cast/delivered OOTB they flow pretty poor, but once ported, properly, they can be pretty good.
Tell us what foundry casting logo you have on your heads and we can tell you what era they were cast. The EARLY "Winters" heads were the ones prone to casting inconsistencies.
If you are buying a used set that will need to be freshened, then price them accordingly and any machining issues will get fixed when you update them.
Some Stage VI'ers require offset rockers, some don't.
The factory cast iron Max Wedgies used the same standard length valves and they run a pretty good number w/o a raised port. Yeah, they had a bigger intake port window but a Stage VI can be opened up to that size too. They were offered that way too.
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 440 heads - 05/05/13 09:23 PM
The standard Stage VI head isn't a bad head. We've only spent a short time playing with them and they will go over 340 cfm at .700" lift (as will the Stealth and the Edelbrock RPM). We've yet to test the Stage VI Max Wedge, but we do have a pair of them in the shop for porting in the near future.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 01:26 AM
Quote:
The factory cast iron Max Wedgies used the same standard length valves and they run a pretty good number w/o a raised port. Yeah, they had a bigger intake port window but a Stage VI can be opened up to that size too. They were offered that way too.
Dean the factory max wedge and the stage 6 are 2 different animals. The factory max wedge head has a standard port location, the stage 6 has a raised port so when you put it on a low deck you have to use a 440 intake, on an RB the 440 intake requires spacers or the special mopar made only single plane. There is a huge hump in the roof of the stage 6 intake port because of how deep the spring pocket has to be to use a stock length valve. Put a longer valve, we used one for a BBC application and that hump pretty much disappears, that is what Chapman racing did when they did the stage 6's.
Mopar really dropped the ball on the stage 6 design ...
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 09:36 AM
Quote:Quote:
The factory cast iron Max Wedgies used the same standard length valves and they run a pretty good number w/o a raised port. Yeah, they had a bigger intake port window but a Stage VI can be opened up to that size too. They were offered that way too.
Dean the factory max wedge and the stage 6 are 2 different animals. The factory max wedge head has a standard port location, the stage has a raised port so when you put it on a low deck you have to use a 440 intake, on an RB the 440 intake requires spacers or the special mopar made only single plane. There is a huge hump in the roof of the stage 6 intake port because of how deep the spring pocket has to be to use a stock length valve. Put a longer valve, we used one for a BBC application and that hump pretty much disappears, that is what Chapman racing did when they did the stage 6's.
Mopar really dropped the ball on the stage 6 design ...
OK John, I'm aware of all that. I was just sayin that despite the factory valve length they can run well. NOT the best but well. I've read up on the Chapman's (pricey = $$) and Mopar even cast some extra wide intakes to fit the Stage VI'ers on an RB block w/o spacers. Workin' a deal on one right now.
Does the Stealth's and Eddy RPM's run a standard length valve? I don't care to check at this point since I've got a set of Indy EZ's and now some Stage VI's too. They'll be fine for what I do. Some of us don't have to go with what is the latest hot ticket. We work with what comes our way at a good price.
It's all good!
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 02:39 PM
Yes, the Stealth and RPM use a standard length valve. But as you probably already know, the valve stem diameters are different. The Stealth and RPM are 11/32 and the Stage VI is 3/8.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 03:38 PM
Quote:
Yes, the Stealth and RPM use a standard length valve. But as you probably already know, the valve stem diameters are different. The Stealth and RPM are 11/32 and the Stage VI is 3/8.
I'm guessing that the RPM and it's copy don't have as high a port entrance as a stage 6 since they use a appropriate deck height intake.
Indy heads have a raised port entrance like a stage 6 does and they use a longer valve. Unlike Mopar, Indy built the spacer into the head so the appropriate deck height intake could be used , but that was a little silly because I don't see anyone putting a stock iron intake on a 383 with 440-1's ...
Wait, this is moparts ...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 03:45 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
The factory cast iron Max Wedgies used the same standard length valves and they run a pretty good number w/o a raised port. Yeah, they had a bigger intake port window but a Stage VI can be opened up to that size too. They were offered that way too.
Dean the factory max wedge and the stage 6 are 2 different animals. The factory max wedge head has a standard port location, the stage has a raised port so when you put it on a low deck you have to use a 440 intake, on an RB the 440 intake requires spacers or the special mopar made only single plane. There is a huge hump in the roof of the stage 6 intake port because of how deep the spring pocket has to be to use a stock length valve. Put a longer valve, we used one for a BBC application and that hump pretty much disappears, that is what Chapman racing did when they did the stage 6's.
Mopar really dropped the ball on the stage 6 design ...
OK John, I'm aware of all that. I was just sayin that despite the factory valve length they can run well. NOT the best but well. I've read up on the Chapman's (pricey = $$) and Mopar even cast some extra wide intakes to fit the Stage VI'ers on an RB block w/o spacers. Workin' a deal on one right now.
Does the Stealth's and Eddy RPM's run a standard length valve? I don't care to check at this point since I've got a set of Indy EZ's and now some Stage VI's too. They'll be fine for what I do. Some of us don't have to go with what is the latest hot ticket. We work with what comes our way at a good price.
It's all good!
I just don't see the comparison between a stage 6 and a max wedge head other than valve length , closed chamber design and similar flow numbers as cast ...
...I have a set of the Stage 6's that have the stock port entrance, they didn't flow for crap either out of the box ... nevermind the dowel locations are off on one head and you can only get ONE head bolt in with the dowels in place
, but they were meant to be a stock head replacement and stock BB wedge head flows like crap also ... so that design worked out right.all that has been fixed including that they flow like they should now ...
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 07:13 PM
AND TO MUDDY THE WATERS FURTHER.....
Isn't it true that in later years MP also made Stage VI heads that could run on a 440 without using the spacers?
My Opinion (it's free, worth what you paid for it):
I see the original style Stage VIs as very useful on a B engine build because they open up the intake manifold catalog to the RB page and the RB intakes are generally better.
OP, You really MUST post casting numbers and foundry marks to get a legitimate answer to your question.
R.
Isn't it true that in later years MP also made Stage VI heads that could run on a 440 without using the spacers?
My Opinion (it's free, worth what you paid for it):
I see the original style Stage VIs as very useful on a B engine build because they open up the intake manifold catalog to the RB page and the RB intakes are generally better.
OP, You really MUST post casting numbers and foundry marks to get a legitimate answer to your question.
R.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 heads - 05/06/13 07:20 PM
Quote:
AND TO MUDDY THE WATERS FURTHER.....
Isn't it true that in later years MP also made Stage VI heads that could run on a 440 without using the spacers?
R.
Yes , that's the head I talked about in my last post , it's a stage 6 except the port entrance is in the stock location so a low deck uses a low deck intake and an rb an rb intake.
They do not call them stage 6's and they have a small passage for an exh crossover also . They look like a stage 6 because are based off the same basic casting.