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MSD Atomic EFI problem solved! MSD was not at fault

Posted By: demon

MSD Atomic EFI problem solved! MSD was not at fault - 05/04/13 01:58 AM

Has anyone else tried the MSD Atomic EFI? I installed one and it works fine when the car is cold or warmed up, but as the car gets to operatng temperature, it runs erratic, stalls and then won't restart. No fault codes on the handheld but it shows no RPM on the display screen when cranking which means the injectors are shut off. The unit takes it's rpm signal from a white wire connected to the neg side of the coil. What would cause it to lose it's signal? When I crank it with the key on and coil wire off and near ground, it has spark so I don't think the coil or ignition is to blame.
Once the car has cooled down for about 1/2 hour it will show an rpm signal on the display and fire up.

Was embarrasing and dangerous when it quit in traffic!!!!

MSD tech line leaves a lot to be desired too.
Posted By: Todd

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 02:04 AM

What is your fuel pressure? Needs to see pressure before it will fire the injectors. What is the IAC set at when it was running?
Bad Coil? What ignition are you using?

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Posted By: Andrewh

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 02:05 AM

I think the question should be are you still getting spark?

bad coil? wouldn't be the first time one got too hot to run and would work again when it cooled off.
Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 03:03 AM

Fuel pressure is always good. 55 psi with a return and regulator.
IAC is 0
The spark is always there. I've tried 3 different ecus and still spark. So I've ruled that out.
The coil is a brand new Mopar restoration from Chrysler.
Chrysler electronic ignition with 4 post ballast. Wiring harness is a brand new B body with electronic ignition from Year One.
The MSD display shows no rpm signal but no other faults. 1/2 hour later it starts right up.
Posted By: skj283

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 03:11 AM

could it have to do with using the ballast resistor? possibly its getting hot and causing enough voltage drop to the coil that its not getting a hot enough signal to the injection ecm? Don't know anything about that system just spit ballin. after that I would be leaning towards the injection ecm itself.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 03:15 AM

No offense BUT wouldn't you be better off posting on the Atomic EFI forum?
Posted By: Todd

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 03:16 AM

Sounds like a typical bad coil.
Did you try posting a question about it on the Atomic Forum?
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 03:16 AM

Are you running a return system? Or no return?
Posted By: ProStock1320

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 04:01 AM

Quote:

Fuel pressure is always good. 55 psi with a return and regulator.




Looks like it is with return.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 04:34 AM

Have you checked the reluctor gap inside your distributor? I had this problem once, for some reason too wide a gap would cause the engine to quit once it got good and warm like after a 1/2 hr. Also had the same problem with a dying coil, would run for like 1/2 hr before the engine would die until it cooled down. I know you say you're getting spark when you check it, but perhaps you're only getting an erratic or inconsistent spark that the efi computer doesn't recognize. Worth checking out anyway. I can't think of anything else that would cause you to lose the spark signal to the efi computer.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 04:41 AM

Quote:

Sounds like a typical bad coil.




x2

Even though it is a brand new Mopar Resto coil, I'd eliminate the easy stuff to get at: Chuck a coil in there out of something you have handy that runs.
Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 05:39 AM

All good advice guys. I'll check out the reluctor gap and try a different coil and ballast resistor

it does sound like the EFI computer can't read the signal because it might be getting weaker at it heats up.

Thanks everyone. Once I get it sorted out I'll post the results.
Posted By: Aero426

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 05:54 AM

Quote:

No offense BUT wouldn't you be better off posting on the Atomic EFI forum?



I agree.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 06:08 AM

It's all good Guys.

I didn't even know this system existed until I read it on here.

Of all the hokey, complicated and expensive EFI systems that are on the market it's nice to see this setup out there. If we can troubleshoot it, then that's a selling point I consider: User-Friendly.
Posted By: fuseable

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/04/13 11:08 PM

Here is a link to the Atomic forum. I have the Atomic system, but I did not experience any problems like yours.
http://www.atomicefi.com/forum.aspx?g=topics&f=12884901886

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Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/05/13 05:00 AM

I don't think it's a problem with Atomic EFI actually. I think the voltage at the coil is the problem. I haven't had a chance look at it yet but I am suspecting the coil or ballast resistor now.
As for the EFI, it was simple to install, and seems high quality.

I did try to get on the MSD Atomc forum but have no access to a computer these days and the forum won't let me post from a smartphone for some reason.
Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/06/13 03:58 PM

I called MSD tech line and explained the symptoms. They said check the reluctor gap too and said Chrysler electronic distributors have a notoriously low signal. So I pulled the distributor cap off and see the reluctor gap was about 1/8" wide!!!!!!
So I've adjusted it way tighter and I will see if the problem occurs today.
Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/06/13 06:14 PM

So after a good long test drive I think the problem is solved! Just needed the reluctor gap adjusted. I didnt think to look at it since it was a brand new distributor and had been dyno run.
Goes to show you can't assume anything.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/19/13 02:47 AM

Quote:

So after a good long test drive I think the problem is solved! Just needed the reluctor gap adjusted. I didnt think to look at it since it was a brand new distributor and had been dyno run.
Goes to show you can't assume anything.



Glad to see you got it figured out, I think this setup is very interesting , especially if it will work with E85.

I was at PepBoys and they have it for 1999.95, I have a 10% discount coupon so that would bring it down to 1800.00. I already have an MSD Billet distributor, street fire ignition and a 383 stroker with 12.5 compression ...
Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/19/13 02:51 PM

Neat looking system. Does this system have its roots based on the system that came out about 7 years ago? That system resembled a typical Holly carb. The other systems on the market like Megasquirt do indeed look intimidating for the do it yourselfer.
Posted By: jcc

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/19/13 09:24 PM

A for updating your title taking MSD off the hook on your "efi" issue, its the right thing to do, but not done often.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/22/13 05:30 AM

Ah ha! How about some credit where credit is due! Glad to hear you got it fixed.
Posted By: demon

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problems. Help please - 05/22/13 02:29 PM

Quote:

Ah ha! How about some credit where credit is due! Glad to hear you got it fixed.


yes I do owe you some credit! Thanks for the tip about the reluctor gap!
Something so simple yet I overlooked it at first.

I am happy with the MSD Atomic system. I think I'll be installing them on more of my cars.
Posted By: 70Plum

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problem solved! MSD was not at fault - 05/22/13 04:23 PM

Quote:

The unit takes it's rpm signal from a white wire connected to the neg side of the coil.

No fault codes on the handheld but it shows no RPM on the display screen



I am about to install Atomic EFI on my 440 Challenger and it seems to me that you can't just attach the white wire to the neg side of the coil. The wiring diagrams all indicate connections to MSD 6A boxes, HEI, or Ready to Run distributors to get a 12V square wave signal.

After you fixed the reluctor gap did your display on the handheld start showing an RPM? If so, then I guess this is the ticket. But there is a post on the Atomic EFI forum about this from a user that had a similar issue to yours. The MSD response was
"It sounds like the Atomic is not getting a clean RPM signal from the coil negative. Unless you plan on installing an MSD Ignition box, I suggest using a GMR Pick-up (PN 8910) to provide a clean RPM signal to the Atomic."

You can read the whole thread at:
http://www.atomicefi.com/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=17019

I would be interested in your final wiring on this since I have standard Mopar Orange Box and don't want to fully convert to MSD 6A at this time. Maybe I will some day to take advantage of the Atomic controlling the timing, but for now I was thinking I might need this GMR Pick up or something similar. If I can just connect to the neg side of coil that would be easy.

Have gathered most of the parts for my Atomic install -- I am running a return line with Aeromotive regulator. Hope to install in the next few weeks.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: MSD Atomic EFI problem solved! MSD was not at fault - 05/22/13 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I would be interested in your final wiring on this since I have standard Mopar Orange Box and don't want to fully convert to MSD 6A at this time. Maybe I will some day to take advantage of the Atomic controlling the timing, but for now I was thinking I might need this GMR Pick up or something similar. If I can just connect to the neg side of coil that would be easy.




Do yourself a huge favor and dump the orange box now, it's an outdated design and doesn't give anywhere near the performance it should.
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