msd problems

Posted By: mickm

msd problems - 04/29/13 05:14 PM

i'm having problems with my MSD box, a 5-6 year old analog 6AL. i talked to MSD, and he was insistent that most reproduction tachs don't work with the box, despite what the builder says. i have a repro tic-toc-tach from charger specialties, and things worked fine for a number of years.

anyway, he said two things: one is that the wires going to the distributor have to be at least 6 inches away from all other wires, and 2 is that the + and - from the box must be directly connected to the battery itself.

my box is on the inner fender, below the battery tray. the wires going to the distributor are running along side the stock wiring harness. the - from the MSD box is grounded to the engine, and the + is connected to the battery from the starter relay on the firewall.

has anyone else run into problems like this? has anyone found that if you don't do these things there are issues? i have no idea how i would run those wires in my car and keep them 6" away from every other wire without doing some goofy looking hack job.

Posted By: bonefish

Re: msd problems - 04/29/13 06:51 PM

i,ve had mine hooked up similar to what you described for thr last 10 years and many miles,no problem.

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 04/29/13 11:36 PM

Quote:

i,ve had mine hooked up similar to what you described for thr last 10 years and many miles,no problem.

that's what i figured. how many people have the wires 6" from everything else? and if everything else can run off of a connection that is directly wired to the battery, why can't this box?

Posted By: davenc

Re: msd problems - 04/30/13 02:20 AM

In my opinion, the key is to keep the wires from the distributor from running parallel with any of the spark plug wires, to keep noise coupling into the trigger wires and causing the box to fire at the wrong time. If you need to cross the area of a spark plug wire, try to keep the trigger wires at 90 degrees to it. You can also twist the two trigger wires on themselves to also help with noise immunity.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: msd problems - 04/30/13 04:57 AM

In spite of the MSD techs' advice as you said it was doing fine for years & just recently starting acting up. If the MSD is functioning OK on the engine & the wiring has no opens/poor connections then I would think that the problem is in the tach. I'd either try the tack in another (non MSD) equipped vehicle or sub a regular electronic dist setup back in to your car (whichever is easiest) & see if the tach straightens out

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: msd problems - 04/30/13 04:40 PM

They suckered me into buying a Tach adapter so I can run my TicTocTac...I hooked it up...it ran all of 5 minutes and then the pcb on the Tac burned out...It sat like that for quite a number of years. Didn't bother me as I had a 5" Monster Tach on my steering column, Eventually swapped out the TTT (I will probably fix it and sell it down the road)for a Quartz clock and everything is okay now....except I am out the 60 bucks for that Tach Adapter

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 04/30/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

They suckered me into buying a Tach adapter so I can run my TicTocTac...I hooked it up...it ran all of 5 minutes and then the pcb on the Tac burned out...It sat like that for quite a number of years. Didn't bother me as I had a 5" Monster Tach on my steering column, Eventually swapped out the TTT (I will probably fix it and sell it down the road)for a Quartz clock and everything is okay now....except I am out the 60 bucks for that Tach Adapter

the guy at rt specialties has designed the tach unit to work with the MSD. the MSD guy was saying that aftermarket tachs don't work well with the adaptor. mine ran fine for a time. while i don't know that there isn't anything wrong with the tach, (could just have gone bad), i know it a) does work and b) does not need the adaptor, which he was almost insisting on.

but the whole stuff of 6" away from all other wiring, + and - hooked up directly to the battery, i just don't buy that...

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 07/16/13 04:34 PM

so, msd is finally going to replace the box. i must admit, their tech, all of them, even the woman who took my info for the RMA, are some of the most unfriendly people i've dealt with.

in the end, i replaced every single thing on the entire ignition system: they RMA'd the box, (although i didn't get any documentation on what they found), we rigged a new harness bypassing every wire on the car connected with the box, i tried a different distributor, and finally a different coil, and it did exactly the same thing every time.

but at least they are sending me a new one.

as i said though, extremely unhelpful. one guy sounded like he didn't believe what i was telling him, and told me "if our boxes don't work, it pretty much happens right away." well, mine didn't work "right away", it just took 1-2 minutes to manifest.

anyway, gripe session over, new box coming.

Posted By: rapom

Re: msd problems - 07/16/13 08:37 PM

I just had an analog box fail last week that I had repaired many years ago. I just never used it until about 2 months ago. I bought an atomic efi system and as a bonus got a digital 6a box for free. I wired that up directly to the battery just for the hell of it so will see how long this one lasts.

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 07/16/13 08:44 PM

Quote:

I just had an analog box fail last week that I had repaired many years ago. I just never used it until about 2 months ago. I bought an atomic efi system and as a bonus got a digital 6a box for free. I wired that up directly to the battery just for the hell of it so will see how long this one lasts.

hopefully longer than mine, which was "never"!

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: msd problems - 07/16/13 09:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

They suckered me into buying a Tach adapter so I can run my TicTocTac...I hooked it up...it ran all of 5 minutes and then the pcb on the Tac burned out...It sat like that for quite a number of years. Didn't bother me as I had a 5" Monster Tach on my steering column, Eventually swapped out the TTT (I will probably fix it and sell it down the road)for a Quartz clock and everything is okay now....except I am out the 60 bucks for that Tach Adapter

the guy at rt specialties has designed the tach unit to work with the MSD. the MSD guy was saying that aftermarket tachs don't work well with the adaptor. mine ran fine for a time. while i don't know that there isn't anything wrong with the tach, (could just have gone bad), i know it a) does work and b) does not need the adaptor, which he was almost insisting on.

but the whole stuff of 6" away from all other wiring, + and - hooked up directly to the battery, i just don't buy that...

It needs to be hooked up directly to the battery. It pulls a lot of amps when the rpms are high. By not hooking it directly to the battery you are creating many more chances for it to go bad.

The MSD guys are not lying to you, why would they?

A high energy ignition is different than a factory ignition that's for sure and you can't treat it the same.

Sure some guys are getting by by doing it wrong, so what.

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 07/16/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

It needs to be hooked up directly to the battery. It pulls a lot of amps when the rpms are high. By not hooking it directly to the battery you are creating many more chances for it to go bad.

The MSD guys are not lying to you, why would they?

wasn't implying that they were, just an overall unwillingness to dive into this and help. i know they get calls all the time from people who don't know what they are doing, but hey, if your job is support, offer support. i come from a support background, so i've been there.

and even though it was seems grossly obvious that the issue is the box, i still did everything they asked, and more.

as it is, i have it hooked up at the starter relay. if that proves to not be enough at higher rpm, i'll figure that out and deal with it later, once i can get the box to actually run.

Quote:

A high energy ignition is different than a factory ignition that's for sure and you can't treat it the same.

Sure some guys are getting by by doing it wrong, so what.

fair enough. i'll check it out.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: msd problems - 07/17/13 03:03 AM

Our rigging company was having a recurring problem with a Duraspark ign on a Ford powered hydraulic pump. They swapped out the umpteenth Duraspark for a 6AL and wired it up to where it was convenient instead of following the instructions because 12v is 12v right? Wrong. Wouldn't even fire.

They were going to send it back as faulty when I asked the mechanic if he'd read the instructions. He was truly astonished when he wired it directly to the battery and it fired right up.

I don't know why it matters but it does.

Kevin

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 07/17/13 05:54 AM

Quote:

Our rigging company was having a recurring problem with a Duraspark ign on a Ford powered hydraulic pump. They swapped out the umpteenth Duraspark for a 6AL and wired it up to where it was convenient instead of following the instructions because 12v is 12v right? Wrong. Wouldn't even fire.

They were going to send it back as faulty when I asked the mechanic if he'd read the instructions. He was truly astonished when he wired it directly to the battery and it fired right up.

I don't know why it matters but it does.

Kevin

i do know what you mean. on this last test, we did wire it straight to the battery, same behavior. i have it wired to the post on the starter relay. wire coming in is larger than the wire going to the box. has worked with my current box for years, despite it's issues of late.

it will be interesting to get the new box, either it will work, or it will have the same behavior, in which case i have to start diagnosing my entire electrical system.

i'll report back, for those that care!

Posted By: bonefish

Re: msd problems - 07/17/13 01:20 PM

i have sent 2 msd 6al boxes back for repair over the years(one mine one for a freind)got many years of use out of them so not complaining,but they obviously didnt work as they were replaced with another exact box.MSD sent them both back to me with the minimum charge for diagnosis and said there was nothing wrong with them,(they worked great when reinstalled).i have talked to a few other guys who had a similar experience.

Posted By: mickm

Re: msd problems - 08/01/13 06:01 AM

so, got the new box from msd.

plugged it in, and it works perfectly.

nice to have it solved, and a lot of the time wasted was mine, but it took them a hell of a long time to just admit the box was bad.