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Holleys for a hemi?

Posted By: Kirby

Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 05:53 PM

Right now- I have 2 Carter AFB's (Newer) on my hemi. I hate them, and would like to switch to Holley- any one know which- if any would bolt on my stock intake? Thanks
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 05:55 PM

None, there is not enough space for the float bowls, get a marine or stageV intake and a pair of quick fuel 4160 style carbs with annular booster. Tim
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 06:14 PM

Quote:

None, there is not enough space for the float bowls, get a marine or stageV intake and a pair of quick fuel 4160 style carbs with annular booster. Tim




What he said , the carbs are to close together , Stage 5 would be a nice upgrade.

What actual carbs do you have on it Kirby ? What do you hate about them ?
Posted By: mickm

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 06:43 PM

really, that is my question as well. like everything else in this world, some will swear by them and some at them.

i have them on both my engines, and although it has been years and years since i have worked on a holley, so can't make a fair comparison, i think the carter/edelbrocks are insanely simple to work on, once you grasp the concept of the jets, metering rods and springs.

one jet size in a carter is the equivalent of many jet sizes in a holley, and so will make a big difference. the metering rod range will allow you to make roughly a 2 jet size difference, which is a lot. you can change metering rods in about 5 minutes! and, metering rods affect both cruise and WOT, best of both worlds, the only tricky part comes in matching what you need. if you need more WOT and cruise to stay the same, you have to find the proper sized rod.

TMI maybe, you may already know all this, and hate them anyway!

but curious why you do...
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 06:52 PM

Quote:

I think the carter/edelbrocks are insanely simple to work on, once you grasp the concept of the jets, metering rods and springs.






And then there is Holley...

Attached picture 7645835-holleyexpoded.jpg
Posted By: mickm

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 07:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the carter/edelbrocks are insanely simple to work on, once you grasp the concept of the jets, metering rods and springs.






And then there is Holley...




HOLY !!!! that's as many parts as an entire engine!

exploded view of edelbrock carb
Posted By: Kirby

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 07:11 PM

First- I must admit that I'm not a great carb guy. The AFB's actually have not been problematic- but are way too rich. Turns my rear bumper blue. Myself, and friends are all set up with Holley's, extra jets, tune parts galore. For these AFB's- I don't know where to start- Jets, rods, whatever else- I would have to buy parts for them. Just trying to simplify vs buying a bunch of parts that I won't use often.
Posted By: mickm

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 07:29 PM

Quote:

First- I must admit that I'm not a great carb guy. The AFB's actually have not been problematic- but are way too rich. Turns my rear bumper blue. Myself, and friends are all set up with Holley's, extra jets, tune parts galore. For these AFB's- I don't know where to start- Jets, rods, whatever else- I would have to buy parts for them. Just trying to simplify vs buying a bunch of parts that I won't use often.




i know where you are coming from. if it's easier to put a new manifold on, do that. but obviously you are talking manifold, air cleaner, fuel lines, linkage, etc.. (and more small stuff).

to make these work, you won't be talking that many extra parts. your first try will get you close, your second or third will get you there or almost there.

chances are good you can fix your problem with metering rods. if you want to, take the metering rods out and let us know the numbers, something like 68/52 stamped on the rod. take a primary and secondary jet out of each carb, and they will be stamped on the top 086, something like that. these are in thousandths, by the way.

post those and we can make recommendations.

personally, even though you like the holley setup better, i'd give this a couple of tries first. jets and metering rods are around $10 a pair, plus shipping if no one close to you has any.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 09:07 PM

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Attached picture 7645961-dayclona6bbl.jpg
Posted By: mickm

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 09:34 PM

Quote:

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i assume that low to mid range would be great, but how does ~960CFM begin to match up with the ~1300CFM that the dual 4 setup has on WOT?
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 09:55 PM

I have good luck with Holleys and Carters. I ran dual 1850 Holleys on a Stage V manifold and they worked fine but running a stock aircleaner was a no-go. So I returned to a stock intake with stock Chrysler issued, Carter AFB's. The car drives great with no shortage of power and I can run the original air cleaner.
My 572 will have a Stage V intake but with new Edelbrock AVS's this time. I can get those under a stock air cleaner with some finessing.
Is your intake stock, uncut? Are the AFB's stagger jetted like the originals were?

Sheldon
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 10:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

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i assume that low to mid range would be great, but how does ~960CFM begin to match up with the ~1300CFM that the dual 4 setup has on WOT?




Not sure about that particular setup, but I believe stock big-block six bbl setups were rated at 1350cfm (350 + 2x500). Last I checked, 1350 was more than 1300.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 10:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

....






i assume that low to mid range would be great, but how does ~960CFM begin to match up with the ~1300CFM that the dual 4 setup has on WOT?




Not sure about that particular setup, but I believe stock big-block six bbl setups were rated at 1350cfm (350 + 2x500). Last I checked, 1350 was more than 1300.





They are rated at 1350 when you rate a 2bbl using 4bbl factoring , the rating factor is different , they are actually more like 960 ...
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/29/13 11:10 PM

Thanks, John, the factor is square root of two.

R.
Posted By: Kirby

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 12:35 AM

I'm game to try anything- this would be the simplest/cheapest way for now. I have my daughter this weekend- so can't take em apart til tomorrow. Thanks for the advice so far!
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 06:25 AM

Quote:

I'm game to try anything- this would be the simplest/cheapest way for now. I have my daughter this weekend- so can't take em apart til tomorrow. Thanks for the advice so far!


you have a PM
Posted By: Hemi ragtop

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 12:33 PM

I have two 750 Holleys on a Stage V intake on my HEMI. I have power, good tunability and decent mileage (12-13 mpg on 100 mile cruise). However, I would probably have gone with the stock setup if I had to do it over again. I read all the talk about "feeding" a large HEMI, (540 ci), and I found the intake and carbs at a "deal" at the Nats. Here is what I DIDN'T consider: I could have bought a COMPLETE package with all NEW parts for less money at the same show from Mancini. Instead of bolting on the supplied fuel line from them, I spent DAYS fabricating lines that "mirror imaged" stock. Hollys feed on the driver side vs. Carter on the pass side. this is not as easy as it sounds, you have to clear throttle linkage etc. vs. having things split up on both sides of the engine. I would have been able to use the SUPPLIED progressive throttle linkage vs. opening both accelerator pumps and primaries every time I touch the gas. I would have been able to use the stock kickdown linkage that I already had vs. buy cable set up from Bouchelon (although it is a great set up and I love how easy it is to adjust throttle pressure). Then I would have been able to use the SUPPLIED air cleaner vs. ordering one from Canada, dealing with the hastles of importing it and then paying $300.00 to have it chromed (it came polished? aluminum). If you have the stock set up now, it would be EXPENSIVE to change to Hollys and I am not shure that you would gain anything.

Attached picture 7646716-DSCN0319.JPG
Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 02:59 PM

Holleys will fit on the Mopar marine intake or the Stage 5, but I don't think you'll have much luck getting them to fit your stock intake, especially if you have a factory ram air setup. My bro had problems with the 1407 750's on his 517, so he switched to Eddy Thunder 650 AVS carbs & that made a huge difference in driveabiity, throttle responce & mileage, too (who cares about MPG with a Hemi).
As was also posted, go get an Eddy calibration kit ($65 from Summit)&
switch out your metering rods. Holley's on a Stage 5 intake are cool, but I think two 650's will make you happy. Tim Banning (FHO), told me he's getting over 800 hp on their big stroker Hemis with 650 Thunders.
Posted By: Kirby

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 06:06 PM

I went out while she was still sleeping, and looked at the some. Rods are all 7147"s, and the # on the base ion the front are both 2540 9756S. Now- I did say was not a carb guy- so don't laugh too much. Where's the jets?
Posted By: mickm

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/30/13 10:44 PM

Quote:

I went out while she was still sleeping, and looked at the some. Rods are all 7147"s, and the # on the base ion the front are both 2540 9756S. Now- I did say was not a carb guy- so don't laugh too much. Where's the jets?




well, the first thing is to know where you are rich. idle, cruise, power? that is what is going to determine what you change. idle, like any carburetor, is just the idle mixture screws.

on these carbs, the whole top of the carb comes off. the floats are attached to the top, and the fuel bowls are in the base. no need to drain them to change jets. go to the edelbrock web site, you can download a PDF of the manual for those carbs.

i wouldn't take the tops off yet until you figure out where you are rich, and then try some metering rod changes.

i was running a 68/57 (first number is cruise, second is power) in mine. at WOT the A/F meter was showing around 14:1. i changed the rod to a 68/47, and it is now reading around 13:1. done! ready to mess with cruise a bit, and off i go.

jets are what you think they are: the bigger the jet, the richer the mixture. the metering rods sit through the jet at all times, (primaries only, secondary jets have no metering rods and so are unobstructed). the metering rod is connected to a piston which has a spring underneath it. engine vacuum overcomes the force of the spring, and sucks the piston down, so the bigger part of the rod is obstructing the jet, that's cruise. when there is little or no vacuum, WOT, the spring pushes the piston and so the metering rod up, and now the smaller part of the rod is in the jet, so more fuel will flow through.

so with rods, smaller is richer. just like my example. engine to lean on WOT, smaller rod means less obstruction in the jet means more fuel flowing through.

so figure out what you want to change first, and we'll go from there.
Posted By: 71birdJ68

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/31/13 01:38 AM

Don't forget about the air doors.
Posted By: Kirby

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/31/13 05:08 AM

Thanks Mick- have the motor out for a refresh, and a few upgrades. The carbs are on my bench- so I'll check which jets are in them as long as they're laying there. I'm not sure which end it's rich on- I have a 5 speed with 3.54 Dana. and tall 295/50/18's- so 70 is just under 2,000 RPM. I like to get on it- but not flog the crap out of it. Little idling as I live on a highway, work in a small town. The carbs come on at the same time- but I could adjust the rear to hit later with the linkage. It doesn't burn your eyes- but I can taste the exhaust some after a while.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/31/13 07:49 PM

Quote:

Thanks Mick- have the motor out for a refresh, and a few upgrades. The carbs are on my bench- so I'll check which jets are in them as long as they're laying there. I'm not sure which end it's rich on- I have a 5 speed with 3.54 Dana. and tall 295/50/18's- so 70 is just under 2,000 RPM. I like to get on it- but not flog the crap out of it. Little idling as I live on a highway, work in a small town. The carbs come on at the same time- but I could adjust the rear to hit later with the linkage. It doesn't burn your eyes- but I can taste the exhaust some after a while.



I would lok at the spark plugs to see if it is rich, lean or just right at idle If your heads didn't have the spark plug tube seals they may be covered in oil, try and look though that to see the color on the porclyn and the ground strap, if there is any small dots, pepper or bright, it is lean. If they are both black it is rich I'm sure that there are more than one example of proper spark plug appearances pictures to look at onthe net Many things contribute to what the spark plugs look like other than the jets in the carbs. Things like gasoline quality and age, spark plug heat range, ignition timing, spark plug wire type and condition, ignition type and condition,air cleaner condition, choke adjustment and so on It ain't easy to get them all perfect but it isn't impossible either, you can do it First you got to want to make it better As far as the throttle linkage adjustments to use, try it both ways and then decide
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 03/31/13 07:54 PM

Check all of the plugs and keep track of what holes they came out of. Does the intake manifold have 4 holes in the carb plenum or open? I think those are 750's and they wouldn't open on a stock manifold.

Sheldon
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Holleys for a hemi? - 04/01/13 03:35 AM

Quote:

I went out while she was still sleeping, and looked at the some. Rods are all 7147"s, and the # on the base ion the front are both 2540 9756S. Now- I did say was not a carb guy- so don't laugh too much. Where's the jets?




Those are both chrysler spec 750's ... just an FYI ...
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