Moparts

General "no start" questions

Posted By: Tomsecks

General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 07:20 PM

Ok, this is a NON Mopar specific question, but I know I'll get an answer here - as my attempts at a brand specific forum have turned up little for me.

99' Grand Prix, 3100 engine. Car will only start when jumped. I have:

New battery (800 crank amps, Duralast)

alternator checked; charging just fine

starter taken off and checked; fine

checked for voltage at the solenoid on the starter when key is turned, checks out fine

took ground cable off, clean connector up

new neutral safety switch too

WHAT is wrong with this car??? Starter bad even though it worked on the test bench? I am just about ready to take it to the mechanic, which is a low in my book.

Thanks for any help.
Posted By: moepwr

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 07:22 PM

Maybe the battery has a bad cell????

I know it is new but that doesnt always mean good
Posted By: buildanother

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 07:45 PM

Sounds like battery, I'd borrow a known good batt from one of your neighbors, the one with the chevy truck. I worked on a car years ago that would not keep running without jiffy jump hooked up ONLY because the batt was shorted inside. That alt was fine as well.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 08:04 PM

Yep, I would swap in another battery, Check battery voltage, start it, and immediately look for charging voltage (something over about 13.25) AT THE BATTERY terminals. Rev it up and make sure you get 13.5 to 14.5 (ish). If so, you've pretty much determined its either a bad battery or a parasitic drain on the system when you shut it off. Check for that next.
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 08:55 PM

I'll try a known good battery. I'm pretty sure there's not parasitic drain. Should the battery not work.... any ideas????
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:06 PM

the known good battery WILL work (you said you can start it by jumping), the CHARGING system may not work as measured AT the battery... which could be an electrical connection, voltage reg, alternator etc.

If you don't see charging voltage at the battery I would start inspecting connections in the charging circuit.
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:22 PM

u said it won't start, do u mean that it turns over too slow like a dead battery or are u turning the key with no response ?
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:32 PM

Sorry should have been more clear, won't turn over. When I throw a set of jumper cables on, it'll turn over and fire right up. Runs fine too once it's going, but once it's off, gotta be jumped again. I took it out and drove about 20 miles on the interstate the other evening, tried to start it right after I turned it off, wouldn't turn over. I had Autozone (since I got the battery there) check the alternator, at idle it was putting out 13.5 - 14.0 volts.
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:48 PM

Is there any response when you turn the key , do you have any headlights while trying to start it , or , is it like there is no battery in the car at all .what i'm trying to find out is if there is any reponse when you turn the key ? does it grunt , tic tic tic or NOTHING ? sorry i wasn't clearer .
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:48 PM

It does sound like a defective battery. Has autozone load tested the battery? I doubt it would pass...even after a charge.
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/26/08 09:56 PM

I have full electronics. Lights, radio, etc all work with the car off and key in "run" position. When I hit the key, I get voltage at the solenoid on the starter. So it's getting signal to turn over. But it doesn't. I get a slight "click" from the fuse box area whenever I hit the start portion of the ignition, yet there doesn't seem to be an ignition relay there. I toss cables on the car, and it'll turn over, fire up, and continue to run. I didn't have a load test done to the battery.
Posted By: dynorad

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/27/08 01:02 AM

Check battery voltage on the battery terminals while someone tries to crank. If the voltage doesn't change you have a high resistance connection somewhere between the battery and the starter.
If the voltage at the battery drops below 10-11V you have a bad battery.
If the voltage at the battery doesn't change check the same way on the terminals instead.
You can use the same technique moving along the cables until you find where the big voltage drop is.
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:46 PM

Update time, and more input needed.

Battery is good. Tried a known good battery, responded the same. Also, tossed my battery in a friend's newer Silverado, turned it over with ease. So battery is not the issue.

I double checked my voltages, the main power to starter 12V, 12v to the switched portion of the starter relay when key is turned to start.

I took the starter out to test it again, can make it turn over if I hook it up to the battery directly.

I am certain it is grounded well when it's bolted in place, I even hooked up an extra ground to try to test it, no luck.

Other thoughts??? I'm about ready to go
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:51 PM

How are the battery cable ends on the car?
Could be a bad connection that by having the jumper cables hanging on them is helping it to get a better contact (for full starting current) or the wire itself perhaps ?
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:54 PM

I cleaned up the connections, so they are corrosion free and even put a little dielectric grease on them. The positive cable is wrapped in that plastic wrap stuff, so I can't see any visible defects.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:57 PM

Ok...after all else you tried it was the only thing that came to mind (and something that I've encountered a couple times on later GM's..)
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:58 PM

Quote:

How are the battery cable ends on the car?
Could be a bad connection that by having the jumper cables hanging on them is helping it to get a better contact (for full starting current) or the wire itself perhaps ?



Take the bolts out of the cables, clean the pocket behind the bolt head, if there is more than one wire in the connection take them all apart & clean everything....I've had a few GM's have this sort of failure...
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 05:59 PM

Quote:

I cleaned up the connections, so they are corrosion free and even put a little dielectric grease on them. The positive cable is wrapped in that plastic wrap stuff, so I can't see any visible defects.



Did you pull the bolt out or just clean the areas that are visable? Cause I've done that & still had a no start...
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 06:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How are the battery cable ends on the car?
Could be a bad connection that by having the jumper cables hanging on them is helping it to get a better contact (for full starting current) or the wire itself perhaps ?



Take the bolts out of the cables, clean the pocket behind the bolt head, if there is more than one wire in the connection take them all apart & clean everything....I've had a few GM's have this sort of failure...



Yep, forgot to mention the part about taking the bolt out and cleaning that too..One Camaro I had, couldn't get it figured out. In the end I just sliced away the plastic from around the terminal end in frustration and wire wheeled the end and bolt and other cable, and it worked perfectly after that..
Posted By: Jim L

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I cleaned up the connections, so they are corrosion free and even put a little dielectric grease on them. The positive cable is wrapped in that plastic wrap stuff, so I can't see any visible defects.



Did you pull the bolt out or just clean the areas that are visable? Cause I've done that & still had a no start...




How did you add a jumper for the ground cable? Have you checked voltage drop between battery + and starter? It sounds like a cable issue. I recently had a new VW Beetle doing this same thing. It would show 12V at the starter in start, but a test light from battery negative to engine ground would also light up-obviously meaning a bad ground somewhere. With a jumper cable set, I hooked one cable from battery - to engine ground and it started. It would also start jumping engine ground to chassis ground-it had a bad ground strap from trans to chassis. You might want to recheck the cables, battery bolts, etc.
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 08:18 PM

I will pull the bolts out of the battery cables and clean there too, I had not done that yet.

I used a set of jumper cables, hooked the positive to the post on the starter, grounded it to the battery ground, chasis, and engine. Nothing made it work. I did so with the start not bolted in place, just to ensure there wasn't a bind with the converter or anythig like that. The positive cable doesn't have any cuts or anything like that in it, so visually it seems ok.

Just for piece of mind, hooked up a MP mini-starter that I had laying around that I know is good, it didn't work either.

Is there any other start/safety stuff on the car? It doesn't seem like fiddling with the shifter, wheel, brakes, etc has any effect on things.

I'm just stumped. I'll go check the other grounds and clean under the bolt heads on the cables too. Thanks for the help so far.
Posted By: buildanother

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 08:39 PM

So, you're saying that you can hook the jumper cables directly to the cable ends that screw into battery, and it starts right up? Then the problem can only be at the cable ends and how good of a connection they have to battery lugs...(silly side terminal and all.) Or are you using the provided junction posts that make it easier to jump rather than getting to the hard to access batt posts?
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 10:42 PM

buildanother-

Essentially, it still doesn't fire up everytime I hit the key though. But it increases the odds of it turning over. I'm using the side posts, my jumper cables fit on there just as easy as the junction post.
Posted By: Tomsecks

Re: General "no start" questions - 11/29/08 11:37 PM

FOUND IT (I hope)!!!! BOTH positive & negative cables had cuts in them. About 12" down from the battery connector. Somebody did black tape them together though.... so how this car hasn't burned to the ground, I don't know.

Thanks for the help.
© 2024 Moparts Forums