Moparts
late model hemi swap is it worth it ?
Posted By: NoFrills
late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 01:47 AM
I am thinking about swapping a 5.7 hemi into my 67 belvedere station wagon. I was wondering if people that have swapped them into older stuff think it was worth it in the end. My car is a running driving 440 auto. I like taking it for rides with my kids but it gets terrible mpg and don't really make that much power. I would want to leave the hemi injected and would put a 518 behind it.
Posted By: BDW
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 03:00 AM
Wondering the same thing.
Posted By: moparpollack
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 03:52 AM
Quote:
I am thinking about swapping a 5.7 hemi into my 67 belvedere station wagon. I was wondering if people that have swapped them into older stuff think it was worth it in the end. My car is a running driving 440 auto. I like taking it for rides with my kids but it gets terrible mpg and don't really make that much power. I would want to leave the hemi injected and would put a 518 behind it.
It's a big investment to save gas money. At the end of the day it's still 375 hp for a newer hemi. Case in point where do you drive and how far. On the highway my friends 512 charger got 17mpg on the highway with 3:55 gears 28" tires. In town not so much. My new challenger does 70mph at 1500 ish rpm. It's boring as all get out putting down the highway like this.
My main grpe about putting a newer engine in an old car is what happens if you break down? Most parts are custom like the spark controller or any sensor. How do you diagnose this and get back on the road? With old school technology most can get it going with basic hand tools.
My buddy drove older cars cross country with points because he knew he could fix them in twenty minutes. Only basic hand tools were all he took. 
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 04:24 AM
You would be cheaper off rebuilding the 440 for a decent mix of power and mileage.
If he was to swap in a 5.7 and keep the injection, I'm assuming he would be using a factory computer. In that case the sensors and everything is the same as the donor vehicle it came out of. Reliability not an issue in that case because nothing is really aftermarket. So long as the wiring job is done right, you're fine.
Posted By: ahy
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 04:58 AM
The 3G Hemi is a great engine. I'm on my third (DD). It likes to spin and is easily upgraded for more power with great flowing heads. It likes at least 4 gears... more is better. It will loaf along at low RPM in OD and get good mileage but again, it likes to spin to get up and go. The 440 is a great engine also. With tight quench, good CR, OD and a well tuned carb or EFI it can be reasonably efficient. Its strong point is mid range torque... different animal.
Is it worth it? Up to you. I believe the 3G swap is getting easier but not yet "easy" and that's a consideration.
Posted By: wldtm
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 05:02 AM
Mine gets 25 MPG at 70 mph with 3.91 and 28 tall tire in an A body. Yes, it has a .64 overdrive in the 5 speed.
Is is quick as h*ll, no. Can I drive it anywhere, yes. I built it for that reason.
Reliability is great, because as mentioned earlier, it has factory efi and the DLC connector. go to any dealership or autozone and get the codes and trouble shoot from their
I love it, but would probably get beat in several street races.
All up to the end goal of your vehicle.
JM
Posted By: cageman
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 10:30 AM
I would just use the 545 that the hemi came with, thats what I did, easy (either way you have to do floor pan mods). Has a speed signal an auto meter speedo can read, and a tach signal an auto meter tach can also read. I used an 03. If I was to do it over, I would have dumped the 03 computer, which has two, one for the engine and one for the trans for an 05 computer, and put a 500 hp tune on it and away I go. With an 05 you need an adapter for the tach and speedo, but they make em. I guess With the tti's it is supposedly 400 hp, but you touch the key it is running and it idles great and will run for 200,000 miles. Try that with a carb engine, ha ha, yeah right. I can hook the scanner up to it and see what is going on, that too is nice. I used a hotwire wire harness, Chris was very helpful, will use him again.
Right now Im finishing up the stainless fuel tank I made, it is turning out sweet, I used the rams fuel pump, so it was designed for this engine.
Posted By: NoFrills
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/12/13 10:46 PM
I can get a good deal on a new 5.7 truck motor and a frend has a fast xfi that he never used that I can get for cheep. Really I would like to put a t56 in in but I have a fresh non lock up 518 laying around. The 440 is ok was suposed to be fresh when I got it. If never really impressed me stock cam 915 heads. It will detinate with out 93 octane gas and im lucky if it gets 10 mpg even on the high way. I think it will end up costing me around 4500 to do the swap with me doing the labor. I also realize 4500 will buy alot of gas for the 440.
Posted By: cageman
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 02:52 AM
I have a thousand into the wiring, I used the stock fuel pump, made my own stainless tank, all the fittings and what not, I'll have 5 grand into it easy. But I also rewired the whole car, new aluminum radiator, put the ac delete pulley on it, made my own driveshaft, All new auto meter guages and all the little stuff.
But it starts with a simple turn of the key and it idles perfectly. Cant beat the oem engineeering. All the hotwire wires clip right together, it took me ten minutes to wire that part.
Todays gas and carbs dont mix. Fuel injection is the only option it seems.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 06:38 AM
Quote:
I can get a good deal on a new 5.7 truck motor and a frend has a fast xfi that he never used that I can get for cheep. Really I would like to put a t56 in in but I have a fresh non lock up 518 laying around. The 440 is ok was suposed to be fresh when I got it. If never really impressed me stock cam 915 heads. It will detinate with out 93 octane gas and im lucky if it gets 10 mpg even on the high way. I think it will end up costing me around 4500 to do the swap with me doing the labor. I also realize 4500 will buy alot of gas for the 440.
Something is big time wrong with your 440 if a "fresh" 440 with a stock cam is only getting 10mpg. With a fresh 440 with decent compression pistons and a stock cam and 727 with some granny highway gears in the rear you should be knocking down mid-upper teens even in a station wagon that's no doubt heavier than a regular b body. Did you take the time to jet your carb properly and tune your distributor advance (initial, total and vacuum)?
Posted By: 72N96RR
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 06:46 AM
The last two issues of Mopar Action magazine has gone into great detail about putting a 6.1 HEMI in old school muscle..They are now convinced after dynoing a solid 750 hp motor that produced 600FT lbs of torque,, that this motor is the end all best hemi setup (OLD OR NEW) available today as far as a pump gas motor with little to no maintenance..
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 06:59 AM
That 750hp 6.1 would be super cool, but that could NOT have come cheap!
Posted By: Daty Rogers
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 07:12 AM
Not only yes but heck yeah! Weighs as much as a slanty, and the weight is further back and down because of the smallness of the motor.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/favl...amp;postmarker= is my thread on the install.
-Daty
Posted By: 74yellowduster
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/13/13 02:25 PM
Quote:
It will detinate with out 93 octane gas and im lucky if it gets 10 mpg even on the high way.
displacement and "type of ignition" "type of injection" have far less to do with mpg than the following:
weight of the vehicle (heavy = more gas)
torque converter (old type that doesnt lock up = your gas goes down the drain)
so a heavy station wagon with a non-lockup converter, even with a 318 is going to get crap mileage.
you need a manual trans or a lockup converter.
a manual trans w/overdrive or automatic with lockup & overdrive will do a lot for you. spending $1000's on special stuff to put in a modern hemi is kind of going in the wrong direction to fix the problem.
Posted By: a12rag
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 12:09 AM
In all my C bodies that I had 440's in, I would get 16mpg all day on the highway - from 60mph - 80mph ! Didn't seem to care . . . I think you should revisit the tuning of the 440 and see what you can do there . . . just my two cents . . .
Cheers
Mark
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 01:32 AM
Inject the 440 and put that 518 behind it. Would be less work and expense, wouldn't it? Will the XFI system you can get cheap be made to work for the 440?
Posted By: NoFrills
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 02:59 AM
I actually have a older holey projection set up the the wagon was suposed to get on the 440 but I never made it that far
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 04:53 AM
How old? I've heard some horror stories about the holley projection kits.
Posted By: moparpollack
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 05:16 AM
Quote:
I have a thousand into the wiring, I used the stock fuel pump, made my own stainless tank, all the fittings and what not, I'll have 5 grand into it easy. But I also rewired the whole car, new aluminum radiator, put the ac delete pulley on it, made my own driveshaft, All new auto meter guages and all the little stuff.
But it starts with a simple turn of the key and it idles perfectly. Cant beat the oem engineeering. All the hotwire wires clip right together, it took me ten minutes to wire that part.
Todays gas and carbs dont mix. Fuel injection is the only option it seems.
Any pictures?
Posted By: patrick
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/14/13 02:22 PM
considering my 4200 lb 2011 charger R/T is a ~13.7 second ride in the quarter mile with the A580 auto and 2.65 rear gears, I'd love to take a bone stock 2009-up 5.7 eagle motor and put it in my duster with it's current gearing of an A833OD and 3.23's....would easily be a 12 second car, that on the highway would get about 27-28mpg....
Posted By: NoFrills
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/15/13 12:56 AM
I guess im doing it not went to buy one and came home with 3
Posted By: BDW
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/15/13 01:15 AM
On sale I guess, haha.
Looks like a nice score. What's the going rate?
Posted By: 72d100
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/15/13 05:00 AM
Quote:
I guess im doing it not went to buy one and came home with 3
wow i couldnt even find 1 when i was looking
Posted By: patrick
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/15/13 01:16 PM
Quote:
I guess im doing it not went to buy one and came home with 3
buy 2, get 1 free?
Posted By: JDMopar
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/16/13 03:47 AM
Quote:
I guess im doing it not went to buy one and came home with 3
You should have put the buggy in the rack after you got done loading them. It could roll off and hit someones car! 
Posted By: NoFrills
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/16/13 06:09 PM
After I came to my senses I realize I don't need 3 5.7's. Two of them are going up forsale if anyone is interested. They are both brand new fully assembled never fired 09 truck motors. One has a cracked air cleaner is missing the balancer and is missing a sensor Id like to get 2200 for it. The other is all good looking for 2500.
Posted By: JDMopar
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/16/13 10:52 PM
WOW! New from Chrysler new, or rebuilt motor new? You should list them in the for sale section under All Hemi motors. You should be able to get the one you're keeping to be able to run in your wagon after you spend 4 to 5 more grand. Headers and motor mounts will be about a grand. Wiring harness and ECM from Hotwire will be close to 2 grand by the time you get the drive by wire stuff. New gas tank with an in tank pump will be close to a grand. Since it's a B-body, you might get lucky and be able to use Jeep Grand Cherokee exhaust manifolds to save some money. If your wagon has power steering, and you want to keep it, you will have to swap to a GM pump that won't blow the guts out of you PS box. You could call Bouchillon Performance in SC, and talk to them about the swap. They sell tons of stuff to do it, and know all the tips and tricks from experience. Good luck with the swap. Looking forward to reading about the progress.
Posted By: wldtm
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/16/13 11:33 PM
Quote:
After I came to my senses I realize I don't need 3 5.7's. Two of them are going up forsale if anyone is interested. They are both brand new fully assembled never fired 09 truck motors. One has a cracked air cleaner is missing the balancer and is missing a sensor Id like to get 2200 for it. The other is all good looking for 2500.
If you are talking about the engines in the back of your truck those are not 09 truck engines. The engines in the back are 03-05 truck/durango engines. You can tell by the coil and the intake.
Maybe you have some other ones. I just wanted to make sure know one tried to sell you a bill of goods. I had a guy in Michigan tell me had 3 6.1s forsale. None of them were 6.1s. They had all kinds of crap missing, etc.
Needless to say I was a little disapponted.
Posted By: NoFrills
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/17/13 01:04 AM
I need to check what year they are the guy said he thought 09. They where brand new form chrysler. He said they where geting the 10 at a time for use in drag boats. These where what was left over. I would like to use a in tank pump but I don't think it would work in the wagon tank they set vertical in the one quater panel.
Posted By: JDMopar
Re: late model hemi swap is it worth it ? - 02/17/13 09:04 PM
Dang! I forgot about the location of wagon tanks.
You could use an external pump right next to the tank. You'll just have to make a bigger pickup tube, and leave the sock off of it. Be careful of what the micron rating is of any external filter you would use. EFI filters need a different rating than carb motors if I remember correctly. Just be careful to not let the fuel level get below a quarter tank, and the fuel slosh with no baffle may not be an issue.