one more about B block intakes

Posted By: NachoRT74

one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 12:51 AM

Eddy performer, DP4B and MP P4532060

I know, Performer is a fairly stock replacement ( some ppl says a tad better some ppl says the same ).

Also know the DP4B is fairly similar on performance than the Performer RPM as far I have read.

but what about the P4532060 ? it looks pretty much similar to the DP4B! but stock coil location, and choke coil provision.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-PERFORMANC...406&vxp=mtr

Posted By: bschargerse

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 01:06 AM

I believe the new part number for that manifold is P4529117. I have one of each of the Eddy Performer and the DP4B, I was going to install them on my '66 Chrysler, but the A/C bracket would not clear the front runners. The Mopar one is designed exactly like the stock cast iron one, and would be a perfect fit. I have never seen any numbers on any power increase / decrease with the Mopar one.

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 01:08 AM

Quote:

Eddy performer, DP4B and MP P4532060

I know, Performer is a fairly stock replacement ( some ppl says a tad better some ppl says the same ).

Also know the DP4B is fairly similar on performance than the Performer RPM as far I have read.

but what about the P4532060 ? it looks pretty much similar to the DP4B! but stock coil location, and choke coil provision.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-PERFORMANC...406&vxp=mtr

I've heard the Performer is just an aluminum clone of the stock intake? Right? Wrong? I thought it might be a way to shed a couple pounds. Always running through scenarios in my head...

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 05:24 AM

Quote:

I believe the new part number for that manifold is P4529117.

good to know thanks!

the DP4B claims to be pretty much similar to the Performer RPM on a test made by a magazine

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 05:26 AM

Quote:

I've heard the Performer is just an aluminum clone of the stock intake? Right? Wrong? I thought it might be a way to shed a couple pounds. Always running through scenarios in my head...

supposelly, HOWEVER is not the "perfect" clone. Is a tad higher ( maybe 3/8" ), so should make longer runners, so, some difference on performance maybe.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 07:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I believe the new part number for that manifold is P4529117.

good to know thanks!

the DP4B claims to be pretty much similar to the Performer RPM on a test made by a magazine

If you have stock heads, the DP4B is a great intake. Once you move from ported stock heads to aftermarket heads you start to out flow the DP4B. I would run that intake, just not with aftermarket heads. OOTB unported 440source or edelbrock rpm heads would be it's limit, and only then with a mild cam.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 01:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I believe the new part number for that manifold is P4529117.

good to know thanks!

the DP4B claims to be pretty much similar to the Performer RPM on a test made by a magazine

Do you have a link to that article , I'm finding that hard to believe.

Posted By: Ronnman

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 02:22 PM

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/viewall.html

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 03:51 PM

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 04:30 PM

The first time I looked at a perfromer 383, I thought Edelbrock had taken a stock 383 manifold and flipped it 180 degress back to front

The old DP4B was a great manifold for a mildly warm 383; better than a performer but probably not up to the current (much taller) Performer RPM. What I've seen is the aluminum castings back then are inconsistent, some are fine but otheres are soft, esy to strip and the aluminum is 'chalky'. The DP4B I think is more on Par with the Weiand dual plane but both are a step up from the performar 383. On a 4 speed car with 3.91 and up gears I generally prefer the Holley street dominator single plane. It's softer down low but a tad better than even the RPM up top.

Performer < DP4B = Weiand Action < Performer RPM = Holley Street Dominator.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 04:33 PM

Thanks , very surprising results. It does show how bad stock iron heads really are, I can't believe they built that engine up like that then stuck stock iron heads on it.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 04:37 PM

Quote:

The first time I looked at a perfromer 383, I thought Edelbrock had taken a stock 383 manifold and flipped it 180 degress back to front

The old DP4B was a great manifold for a mildly warm 383; better than a performer but probably not up to the current (much taller) Performer RPM. What I've seen is the aluminum castings back then are inconsistent, some are fine but otheres are soft, esy to strip and the aluminum is 'chalky'. The DP4B I think is more on Par with the Weiand dual plane but both are a step up from the performar 383. On a 4 speed car with 3.91 and up gears I generally prefer the Holley street dominator single plane. It's softer down low but a tad better than even the RPM up top.

Performer < DP4B = Weiand Action < Performer RPM = Holley Street Dominator.

mmm... would like your opinions about the MP dual plane piece.... IT LOOKS fairly "the same" than the DP4B

about the Holley SD, Id' like to think the Eddy Street Master was pretty much the same, but on an earlier thread I posted maybe two weeks ago, seems wasn't on that way, being the eddy a POS ( by posters opinions )

Posted By: dogdays

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 05:53 PM

Nacho, have you seen the film, Nacho Libre? You'll either laugh or gag.....Kinda reminds me of Napoleon Dynamite with a fake Spanish accent.

The Holley Street Dominator is well known for being a great RB intake, it's not as great on the B or LA motors, nevertheless it's a heck of a lot better than a Streetmaster for any of the above. The Streetmaster was superceded by the Performer, so you know what its target was.

IIRC the Perf RPM is the third best, the Torker 383 is better and cheap on the used market, and the TM-6 is tops.

If you're building bigger than a 451, I'd look for the TM-6 (part of the Tarantula family) and settle for a Torker383. I got my Torker383 for $50, and plan to use it on my long-term stroker 451.

I am talking about intakes from the "normal" manufacturers, there may be an Indy or other like specialized intake that I don't know.

R.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 07:31 PM

Quote:

Nacho, have you seen the film, Nacho Libre? You'll either laugh or gag.....Kinda reminds me of Napoleon Dynamite with a fake Spanish accent.

No, but I have laugh with you guys from USA with comparisions LOL

as far the build... you know my build, 400 stroked to 3.75 with 4.362 bore---> 448 ( 451 wannabe )

I'm just looking for another intake options beside the Performer, which is the one I actually have... and you know my conditions. Stockish look and locations. Has been told the DP4B is one of the best, but doesn't meet my requirements with the coil and manifold choke locations. The MP uses the earlier choke setup and square bore carb, but I think would live with that using the earlier choke coil and carb adaptor... would need to use a longer choke rod of course using the plate adaptor unless I remove the backelite plate TQs uses. And would search the way to add the electric assistant choke system, from laters models

the Holley SD is another option ( being the Streetmaster has been claimed to be not as good ) but aren't supposselly the single planes able to loose bottom end power ?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Nacho, have you seen the film, Nacho Libre? You'll either laugh or gag.....Kinda reminds me of Napoleon Dynamite with a fake Spanish accent.

No, but I have laugh with you guys from USA with comparisions LOL

as far the build... you know my build, 400 stroked to 3.75 with 4.362 bore---> 448 ( 451 wannabe )

I'm just looking for another intake options beside the Performer... and you know my conditions. Stock look and locations. Has been told the DP4B is one of the best, but doesn't meet my requirements with the coil and manifold choke locations. The MP uses the earlier choke setup and square bore carb, but I think would live with that using the earlier choke coil and carb adaptor... would need to use a longer choke rod of course. And would search the way to add the electric assistant choke system, from laters models

the Holley SD is another option ( being the Streetmaster has been claimed to be not as good ) but aren't supposselly the single planes able to loose bottom end power ?

The M1 dual plane uses the 70 up choke configuration.

You can add the missing stuff to the DP4B if you're handy with a Tig welder.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 07:52 PM

which one is the M1 dual plane ? If this:

is the P4529117 I'm asking if is similar in performance to the DP4B acclaimed as one of the best ( althought I asked first for another PN which looks to be superseded by this ) and shows the earlier choke setup

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 08:02 PM

Since you're building a 451-ish stroker low deck, I'd try to find a performer RPM for a heavier tighter stall, higher geared combo or a Street Dominator for a lighter, more stall, deeper geared combo. A SD doesn't really 'look' stock (single plane) but it does have a near stock carb height, An RPM is much taller than stock and would need a drop base air cleaner. Given your parameters, the Performar may be your best bet....especially since you already have it.

The performer really isn't a "bad" piece, it's just not substantially better than stock.

Cam selection is also a critical piece for 451's in order to get the most out of them.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 08:12 PM

Wize has a point...You aren't dead yet, so you can start out with the Performer and then decide on where to go from there. People change engine combinations all the time.
My $500 ford truck with the 400 runs quite well with the Performer on it, I won't be buying anything different for it as it does everything I need and there aren't too many intakes for that engine anyway. So maybe you use what you have and step up at a later date if you wish.

R.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 08:19 PM

engine is already running since one year ago with Performer intake I bought cheap ( US$60 ) on a Crower 282 cam. MP 175K TC, 3.55 SG gears with 255/60-15 tires

Performer is definitelly higher than the stock iron. Already prooved that. Had to cut down a little bit the front coil location to be able to fit the rear AC Compressor bracket what attachs to this point. So SOME DIFFERENCE must have with the stock on performance.

Just looking forward to another options

Holley SD is not really stock look but on the first view with everything on stock location WILL LOOK stock, down the stock air cleaner, carburator and behind the AC RV2 compressor. Just the vacuum provision will make a BIG difference, being on the passenger side. The Streetmaster beats the SD on this with the EGR and vacuum provisions location... Shame by all ppl here the Streetmaster looks to be a POS.

I don't care EGR system since Venezuelan assemblied cars didn't got EGR system... at least not my car.

I'm not saying am not satisfied with the Performer, just watching for a future upgrade and note the differences.

For me, the Street Dominator is a winner to me, ( even I like more the Streetmaster look ) but wondering about this on a driver, usually low RMP car, where suposselly Single planes loose bottom end power. The magazine test prooves that. Thats why I'm looking for a dual plane option. WITH STOCK LOCATIONS ( choke and coil ). If were spread bore, even better.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 08:46 PM

Quote:

which one is the M1 dual plane ? If this:

is the P4529117 I'm asking if is similar in performance to the DP4B acclaimed as one of the best ( althought I asked first for another PN which looks to be superseded by this ) and shows the earlier choke setup

Yes that is the M1 dual plane, appears to be a carbon copy of the 70 cast iron 4bbl. With some welding on the drivers side of the intake you could turn it into a spreadbore if you want to do that way .

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/11/13 10:25 PM

SD is better than most dual planes through the middle and with 450-ish cubes (and not 383) you will like it better. it is a very good manifold.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 01:12 AM

The MP aluminum is nothing more than the stock cast iron.

The Performer is the DP4B, turned end for end and with a spreadbore carb mount.

The DP4B and Performer are considerably better than the factory manifold for performance.

Here is how different the DB4B is from factory

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 01:15 AM

Quote:

The MP aluminum is nothing more than the stock cast iron.

The Performer is the DP4B, turned end for end and with a spreadbore carb mount.

The DP4B and Performer are considerably better than the factory manifold for performance.

Here is how different the DB4B is from factory

right click SAVE ...

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 07:51 AM

Quote:

The MP aluminum is nothing more than the stock cast iron.

So no performance gains other than weight savings?
How noticeable would it be painted up on a '69 383?

Posted By: BSB67

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The MP aluminum is nothing more than the stock cast iron.

So no performance gains other than weight savings?
How noticeable would it be painted up on a '69 383?

Define noticeable? Even painted, cast iron looks different than cast aluminum. It will be missing the factory casting number and clock and the casting flash. The MP aluminum has �Mopar� cast into it. Everything else will be the same.

If you have a stock 383 engine, the factory intake is not too bad. If your 383/400 is warmed up, and you think that your intake is holding you back, get the MP aluminum and mill the divider down. If you want to step it up from there, get a DB4B or Performer, if your engine wants more, mill the divider down, if your engine wants even more, get the RPM, and after that get the SD. I'm not saying that there aren't other good manifolds. You really need to put on the manifold that the engine wants. There is no best manifold, just one or two that are best for your engine.

The Performer and DP4B will easily support 375 hp, probably 400 hp ( i.e 12 second street car), and there just aren't that many street B motors making that kind of power. Strokers are obviously a different story, but the rules are the same for selecting intakes based on power level.

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 02:25 PM

Just a stealthy looking 383. Will be building it to stock. My mind is always running about upgrading slowly, first trying to drop some weight, then the usual suspects. Cam, carb, intake, headers, etc and so forth. Clear as mud? Lol.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 03:06 PM

Russ (BSB67)

Do you have a shot of a DP4B and a Performer side by side? It's been 20 yrs since I had a 383 Performer in my hand but I remember it looking like a flipped around stocker, I've had several DP4B's and I remember them having ribs in the floor that I don't think the Performer has at all. I also seem to remember the performer might have had egr provisions like a street dominator and also slightly smaller (internal) runners than the DP4B.

Thanks!

Bobby

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 04:33 PM

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD SOMEBODY COMPAIRING THE PERFORMER AND DP4B being a pretty much same intakes but spreadbore provision. Sounds an interesting opinion

Bobby the Performer it is definitelly higher than the stock. I already have checked that because I had to cut one of the coil locations to be able to bolt the rear AC bracket. Also the air cleaner sits higher againts the rest of the engine. MAYBE ALLMOST THE SAME difference than the pic posted here between stock and DP4B. I have told around 3/8" height difference, but can be a tad more. So probably putting side by side a Performer and a DP4B they will look the same height or pretty much the same

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 04:42 PM

Well it makes sense that since the DP4B was such a good piece that Edelbrock wouldn't have changed it very much. It's just that the performers were all designed in the late 70's early 80's low compression smog era and the runners tended to be smaller than the late 60's early 70's era 'Muscle' manifolds. Compare a small block mopar LD340 to a performer and there is no comparison. It wasn't until Edelbrock regained their footing and started building the true High rise RPM serires manifolds that people started taking notice again. Edelbrock was actually recommending performer manifolds for RV's back then, lol.

Interesting topic, I really would like to see a performer and DP4B on the same table, if only for nostalgias sake lol

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 05:12 PM

Here is the performer

Attached picture 7585589-performer383.JPG

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 05:12 PM

Dp4b

They look the same but reversed as said , never knew that , also looks like there is enough meat to open the DP4B for a spreadbore .

Attached picture 7585590-dp4b.JPG

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 05:17 PM

And just for comparison , 68/69 iron intake.

Attached picture 7585595-69intake.JPG

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 05:38 PM

yeap, performer and D4PB have reversed plane feeding for cilinders. I don't think that would make a big difference. In both cases alternates planes on firing order.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 05:58 PM

Looking at each of the intakes, picture the air flow from the plenum into the upper plane's runners.On the stock intake the air has to make rather an abrupt turn to get to the #1 and #7 runners. Now study the same areas on the two Edelbrocks. Note how those sharp corners are eased (radiused)?
There's power right there. I bet the #1 and #7 cylinders ran lean at high rpm with the stocker. So to get them right, the rest of the engine had to be jetted rich. One of the secrets of making big power is getting every cylinder to be right on the money.

Just a flash as I looked at the pictures.

R.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 06:12 PM

interesting view!

that makes the DP4B gives more equal "money" to cilinders against the Performer? maybe. Performer looks to be the same to stock but definitelly softened radious thought. M1 looks more similar to the stock than the Performer at least there.

I wish had laters intake pic to compare too.

Then would need to check then the bottom plane

EDITING....

good point on 1 and 7 on DP4B, but now check the opposite side, 2 and 8 on DP4B... it pretty much the same than 1 and 7 on performer ( and stock ), but of course just due the reversed planes makes the opposite view.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 06:44 PM

Yeah, pretty much as I rememmbered them, the Performer has the EGR and no "puddle ridges" in the plenum floors.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 07:53 PM

here is the underside of the M1 dual plane , stock iron will be the same

Attached picture 7585773-alum383bottom.JPG

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 07:55 PM

underside of DP4B

Attached picture 7585776-DP4Bbottom.JPG

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 08:07 PM

Weiand Action plus

Attached picture 7585788-weiand.JPG

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 08:08 PM

bottom

Posted By: dogdays

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/12/13 10:07 PM

That Weiand "should" be a lot friendlier to a big-inch motor, with those beautiful sweeping curves. However, things aren't always what they seem.
Track data would help, especially quarter mile speeds.
R.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: one more about B block intakes - 02/13/13 01:28 AM

Quote:

Russ (BSB67)

Do you have a shot of a DP4B and a Performer side by side? It's been 20 yrs since I had a 383 Performer in my hand but I remember it looking like a flipped around stocker, I've had several DP4B's and I remember them having ribs in the floor that I don't think the Performer has at all. I also seem to remember the performer might have had egr provisions like a street dominator and also slightly smaller (internal) runners than the DP4B.

Thanks!

Bobby

No, as the Performer is still on my 383. There are enough people in disbelief on what I say about the two being the same (in the context of runner cross sectional area and configuration) I've seriously thought about pulling it and documenting it.

When I did buy it.....20 years ago, I did spend a long time with it and the DB4B side by side and used inside and outside spring calipers/dividers to check internal and external dimensions of the runners.... they are the same.

Interesting story: Mopar (Direct Connection) use to have jetting recommendations for using a Holley 750 on a DP4B. It was strange staggered jetting. I took that staggered jetting recommendation, turned it around for my 750 mounted on the Performer to match the corresponding DP4B runners, and the car picked up 2 tenths and a 1.5 mph.

That car ran 108 mph, at a 13.0 with a 2.2 sec. sixty ft. with the clutch slipping badly. That was with a tired 383, MP 280 "Hemi Grind", and 1 5/8" headers with full exhaust. It did have a decent set of heads with a back yard port job by yours truly and decent cylinder pressure. I believe that with things being right, it would go 12.7s @ 110 in street trim. Race weight was about 3700 lbs.