Moparts
Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!!
Posted By: GTX Mike
Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 04:10 AM
440 Source crank (not knurled) with a 440 Source billet retainer. When I first put the motor together, i used a Viton seal from 440 Source and the orange silicone side seals. It leaked. The leak was definitely from the seal, not the side seals. So I decided to try a rope seal instead. That leaked too. So I decided that maybe the problem was from the back of the engine or I just didn't do a good enough job with the rope seal. I re-did the rope seal (Victor Reinz JV551}, removed the trans. and checked the back of the engine, which was dry. I grooved the retainer to make sure oil could easily flow down from the rear main cap. Today I ran it for about 40 minutes. For the first 20 minutes, it was dry. But right when I was starting to feel good, it started leaking pretty heavily - like about 2 to 3 ounces in the next 20 minutes. Again, I'm sure it's leaking from the crank and not the side seals (I can see a drop on the crank}.
I've rebuilt probably 20 engines in the past, but the only two I've ever had rear seal trouble with are this one and my last big block (another 440 Source crank). On my last 440 Source crank, I had a knurled crank. I put a rubber seal on it, and it leaked, but I then installed a rope seal (with an Indy retainer) and it was fine.
The one constant here is the rear seal retainer. I almost replaced it this last time just to be cautious. 440 Source recommends shaving 0.010 off their retainer. I didn't do this, since I'm using a rope seal, and I figured it would make no difference.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 04:31 AM
I'm using a stock steel crank and a 440 Source retainer with the rubber seal and pipe cleaner/silicone side seals that comes in the FelPro engine kit. It's sealing fine after 2000 miles. With their retainer, they recommend you silicone every sealing surface on and around the retainer except for where the seal actually contacts the crank. Also in the groove in the retainer around the outside of the seal. Everywhere.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 04:39 AM
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 09:03 AM
Quote:
Read this and see if anything there can help:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
That was actually one of my primary references when I did the seal this last time. I found it interesting that some of the billet seal retainers have problems. I think I will either use another Indy retainer this time or go with a stock style.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 02:42 PM
Doesn't the rope seal need to be used with a knurled crank ?
Posted By: phathemi
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 04:36 PM
I'm interested in following this thread, had my engine (440/stock crank, vyton seal, billet 440 cap), out three times for this too. I can't confirm the source of my leak. I've got a manual trans and I'm wondering how much crank bell housing run out can impact and make this leak. I'm just within mopar spec, barely, and makes me wonder if it's enough movement to cause this. I've also gone back to stock oil pressure sending unit and removed my mechanical just in case the oil was faking me out by running down the back and appearing to be a crank seal leak. frustrated is an understatement!
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 04:45 PM
Quote:
I'm interested in following this thread, had my engine (440/stock crank, vyton seal, billet 440 cap), out three times for this too. I can't confirm the source of my leak. I've got a manual trans and I'm wondering how much crank bell housing run out can impact and make this leak. I'm just within mopar spec, barely, and makes me wonder if it's enough movement to cause this. I've also gone back to stock oil pressure sending unit and removed my mechanical just in case the oil was faking me out by running down the back and appearing to be a crank seal leak. frustrated is an understatement!
Did you silicone seal all the mating surfaces?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 05:10 PM
Quote:
I'm interested in following this thread, had my engine (440/stock crank, vyton seal, billet 440 cap), out three times for this too. I can't confirm the source of my leak. I've got a manual trans and I'm wondering how much crank bell housing run out can impact and make this leak. I'm just within mopar spec, barely, and makes me wonder if it's enough movement to cause this. I've also gone back to stock oil pressure sending unit and removed my mechanical just in case the oil was faking me out by running down the back and appearing to be a crank seal leak. frustrated is an understatement!
If there was enough pressure from an out of spec bellhousing to cause the crank to move I think you be eating input bearings on the trans and/or the pilot bushing, make sure the trans is not leaking , bearing retainer seal and gasket and especially around the cluster gear pin ...
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 05:15 PM
Quote:
Did you silicone seal all the mating surfaces?
Absolutely. I'm always very generous with my RTV! Mating surfaces, back side of each seal, rear of seal retainer at mating surfaces (just in case the side seals leak).
Posted By: 72blubird
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 05:22 PM
Quote:
Did you silicone seal all the mating surfaces?
Absolutely. I'm always very generous with my RTV! Mating surfaces, back side of each seal, rear of seal retainer at mating surfaces (just in case the side seals leak).
You need to be careful that as everything is tightened down the silicone does not get on unintended surfaces. This happened to me after putting just enough silicon the second time there have been no issues.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 06:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Did you silicone seal all the mating surfaces?
Absolutely. I'm always very generous with my RTV! Mating surfaces, back side of each seal, rear of seal retainer at mating surfaces (just in case the side seals leak).
I'd venture to say that's about 90% of leakage problems 
Many are so damn afraid of a leak they think the "sillycone" is going to help them when in fact it causes more problems than it will cure. Especially on a rear main seal.
I can't believe people do this thinking it will "help" seal things up. I'll also take a wild azz guess that most people think about the rear seal just before they drop the crank in without any pre planning or fit up.
JohnRR 
A rope seal on a smooth crank surface = potential leak.
Knocking .010" off a retainer? For what? I assume most that do this don't even consider mocking the seal up first. And BTW how is it suggested to take the .010" off, belt sander?
Who here Loctite's their bearings in place just to make sure they won't spin one?
When installing a rear seal, leave the sillycone in the tool box
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 06:40 PM
Quote:
Who here Loctite's their bearings in place just to make sure they won't spin one?
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 07:13 PM
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Posted By: phathemi
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 07:24 PM
Thanks JohnRR, my bell housing bore measures 8-9 1000th total out, just on the cusp of needing dowels. I also DID have an input shaft leak which I just had repaired after a glazed clutch, I'm fascinated that you thought of that. My input shaft was pitted at the seal which is what we are attributing failure to, not out of round....or could it be? regardless, it's engine oil dripping off the dust collector, not tranny fluid.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 08:01 PM
Quote:
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Did you measure and inspect his block to advise removing material from the seal retainer? 
Removing .005" - .010" from the seal retainer has virtually NO effect when using a rope seal.
Removing the same amount for using a rubber seal can very well have a negative effect.
Does one make their housing bores on the rods or mains smaller to decrease bearing clearance?
Find the root cause of the problem, smooth shaft and rope seal, sillycone band-aid, retainer fitment and concentricity with the block and crank bores and parting surface alignment with a rubber seal for starters.
BTW a rod cap grinder is the proper method for removing material from the seal retainer 
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 08:51 PM
Bottom line: If I can invent a foolproof way of sealing big block Mopar rear main seals for everyone, I stand to win some kind of prize for the betterment of humanity or something, right?
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/08/13 11:22 PM
And become a billionaire!
R.
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 12:22 AM
OK. Original poster here. I went home during lunch to scratch my head a little more to figure this out. I thought about crankcase ventilation, as I wasnt' planning to run PCV, since it's mainly a race car. I figured I was OK, since I have a filtered breather plugged into the valve cover. I took out the breather and blew through it. I was surprised to find strong resistance to my blowing, kind of like trying to blow up a balloon. I'm betting this is at least part of the problem (pressurized crankcase), and it would explain why the leak is somewhat intermittent (I ran the car for 20 minutes with no leak, then it started leaking heavily).
I'll post back when I find out.
Posted By: Hooligan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 02:19 AM
I have a 440 source crank, their billet seal retainer, and their orange viton seal kit but I have yet to use them. If my aging memory serves me right...I think that Hughes Racing Engines now sells a nifty one-piece rubber rear main seal. It has a slit in it so you can slip it over the crank. If I am mistaken, then I will start taking my meds again!
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 03:07 AM
I hooked up a PCV system and, well, no change!
The PCV system was working fine - the suction held a sheet of paper in place on the opposite valve cover. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether the crankcase is pressurized or under vacuum. At idle, it hardly leaks (maybe a drop every minute or so), but at rpm, it's more like a drop every 10 seconds.
That Hughes one-piece seal sounds cool. I'll have to look that up.
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 03:23 AM
I looked for a one-piece rear main, and I didn't find anything on the Hughes site (or anywhere else). Maybe we were trying to wish it into existence. I thought about a problem with this: something that could be made to fit around a crankshaft probably wouldn't have much stiffness.
Posted By: PurpleBeeper
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 05:36 AM
I hope I'm wrong..... but was the block/main journals align honed? The only reason I can see to cut .010" off the rear main seal retainer would be to re-center the seal on the crankshaft after the block was align honed (ie crankshaft moved up in block, but rear oil seal at original/lower location). It's hard to imagine that at least the rope seal couldn't tolerate being off center slightly... but????
You also mentioned that the back of the block is dry. Are you 100% sure that's oil leaking and not gear lube out of a 4-speed trans front seal?
I'm just throwing out some other ideas here....
Posted By: GTX Mike
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 07:25 AM
Quote:
I hope I'm wrong..... but was the block/main journals align honed? The only reason I can see to cut .010" off the rear main seal retainer would be to re-center the seal on the crankshaft after the block was align honed (ie crankshaft moved up in block, but rear oil seal at original/lower location). It's hard to imagine that at least the rope seal couldn't tolerate being off center slightly... but????
You also mentioned that the back of the block is dry. Are you 100% sure that's oil leaking and not gear lube out of a 4-speed trans front seal?
I'm just throwing out some other ideas here....
I also thought about the seal having a different center than the crank and, like you, I figured the rope seal would forgive anything minor. I might wind up pulling this motor again to find out if there's something weird like that going on. I hope not. And it's an auto trans, so I'm sure it's engine oil. Thanks for the thought, though.
Posted By: Hooligan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 12:20 PM
I neglected to mention that the one-piece seal is not shown on the Hughes website. Try calling them, and I'll try remembering if it was them or a different vendor. If they don't sell them, they probably know where to get one.
Posted By: STROKIE
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 01:51 PM
Quote:
I neglected to mention that the one-piece seal is not shown on the Hughes website. Try calling them, and I'll try remembering if it was them or a different vendor. If they don't sell them, they probably know where to get one.
I contact Hughes to order the one-piece seal and the answer was: The project has been cancelled...
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 01:57 PM
Quote:
And become a billionaire!
R.
No, not really. 440 Source will come out with a cheaper one "just like it" and everybody will use that one.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 03:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
And become a billionaire!
R.
No, not really. 440 Source will come out with a cheaper one "just like it" and everybody will use that one.
GTX , ditch the rope seal AND did you check to make sure the source retainer isn't the problem ? I remember there was an issue with it being offset ???
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 04:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And become a billionaire!
R.
No, not really. 440 Source will come out with a cheaper one "just like it" and everybody will use that one.
GTX , ditch the rope seal AND did you check to make sure the source retainer isn't the problem ? I remember there was an issue with it being offset ???
They are all offset to prevent them from being installed backwards. If you measure the space in the block where the retainer goes, you will see. There was a guy at some point comparing a 440 Source cap with a factory one and showing how it was offset. But he had them up against each other at 180 degrees, so it looked off.
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 05:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Did you measure and inspect his block to advise removing material from the seal retainer?
Removing .005" - .010" from the seal retainer has virtually NO effect when using a rope seal.
Removing the same amount for using a rubber seal can very well have a negative effect.
Does one make their housing bores on the rods or mains smaller to decrease bearing clearance?
Find the root cause of the problem, smooth shaft and rope seal, sillycone band-aid, retainer fitment and concentricity with the block and crank bores and parting surface alignment with a rubber seal for starters.
BTW a rod cap grinder is the proper method for removing material from the seal
retainer
The OP stated he has already tried a rope and viton seal with no change - obviously I cannot inspect his block but I can advise him on what works for me and I did so.
He is probably going to find out his aftermarket retainer is sitting to high/poorly machined OR the seal journal is undersized on his aftermarket crank.
You brought up the belt sander not me 
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 05:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Did you measure and inspect his block to advise removing material from the seal retainer?
Removing .005" - .010" from the seal retainer has virtually NO effect when using a rope seal.
Removing the same amount for using a rubber seal can very well have a negative effect.
Does one make their housing bores on the rods or mains smaller to decrease bearing clearance?
Find the root cause of the problem, smooth shaft and rope seal, sillycone band-aid, retainer fitment and concentricity with the block and crank bores and parting surface alignment with a rubber seal for starters.
BTW a rod cap grinder is the proper method for removing material from the seal
retainer
The OP stated he has already tried a rope and viton seal with no change - obviously I cannot inspect his block but I can advise him on issues I have come across and what has worked for me.
I thought tht is what I did
Again he is probably going to find out his aftermarket retainer is sitting to high/poorly machined OR the seal journal is undersized on his aftermarket crank. I've seen it many times.
You brought up the belt sander not me and yes you do make housing bores smaller to decrease clearance so you lost me on that?
I assumed he would be going back to the viton seal this time around.
Posted By: Hooligan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 06:27 PM
Aw darn! The one-piece seal was probably being produced by BP and Exxon! Hah!Hah!
Posted By: drew72
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 06:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Did you measure and inspect his block to advise removing material from the seal retainer?
Removing .005" - .010" from the seal retainer has virtually NO effect when using a rope seal.
Removing the same amount for using a rubber seal can very well have a negative effect.
Does one make their housing bores on the rods or mains smaller to decrease bearing clearance?
Find the root cause of the problem, smooth shaft and rope seal, sillycone band-aid, retainer fitment and concentricity with the block and crank bores and parting surface alignment with a rubber seal for starters.
BTW a rod cap grinder is the proper method for removing material from the seal
retainer
The OP stated he has already tried a rope and viton seal with no change - obviously I cannot inspect his block but I can advise him on issues I have come across and what has worked for me.
I thought tht is what I did
Again he is probably going to find out his aftermarket retainer is sitting to high/poorly machined OR the seal journal is undersized on his aftermarket crank. I've seen it many times.
You brought up the belt sander not me and yes you do make housing bores smaller to decrease clearance so you lost me on that?
I assumed he would be going back to the viton seal this time around.
No, actually you make housing bores smaller to INCREASE crush. On a rigid component like a viton seal or a bearing, you change the i.d. of the bearing or seal to decrease clearance.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/09/13 07:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd cut 5/10 thou off the retainer with a cap grinder - NOT a belt sander
It is possible the crank is under spec
FWIW - I always use a shaved Original Mopar retainer - with a rope seal - light silicone on sealing surfaces and fill in the sides - no issues
Since you have a smooth seal surface - shave the cap and get a good viton seal - lube the seal heavily for startup.
Did you measure and inspect his block to advise removing material from the seal retainer?
Removing .005" - .010" from the seal retainer has virtually NO effect when using a rope seal.
Removing the same amount for using a rubber seal can very well have a negative effect.
Does one make their housing bores on the rods or mains smaller to decrease bearing clearance?
Find the root cause of the problem, smooth shaft and rope seal, sillycone band-aid, retainer fitment and concentricity with the block and crank bores and parting surface alignment with a rubber seal for starters.
BTW a rod cap grinder is the proper method for removing material from the seal
retainer
The OP stated he has already tried a rope and viton seal with no change - obviously I cannot inspect his block but I can advise him on issues I have come across and what has worked for me.
I thought tht is what I did
Again he is probably going to find out his aftermarket retainer is sitting to high/poorly machined OR the seal journal is undersized on his aftermarket crank. I've seen it many times.
You brought up the belt sander not me and yes you do make housing bores smaller to decrease clearance so you lost me on that?
I assumed he would be going back to the viton seal this time around.
No, actually you make housing bores smaller to INCREASE crush. On a rigid component like a viton seal or a bearing, you change the i.d. of the bearing or seal to decrease clearance.
The housing bore for the seal just like a bearing bore should be round. Removal of material from the seal retainer if not warranted can egg shape the bore and cause seal distortion when the retainer is torqued. Distortion can be in the form of out of round or excessive crush.
Reducing the bore diameter for the seal will not change the I.D. of the seal to be tighter without distortion
Just like rod and main bearing clearance should be adjusted using bearing size and shaft size. Not crushing the bearing on the outside and hoping the inside reduces clearances.
From what has been discussed here on the board there seems to be some deficiencies with some of the aftermarket seal retainers not having enough room between it and #5 main cap. Thoughts are that oil drainage will not be fast enough and can overload the seal. 
I have also seen main studs / bolts hang up the seal retainer and not allow it to sit flush on the block.
Undersize seal surface is a possibility along with excessive material removal from line bore / hone process causing an egg shaped and or non centered seal bore
As for the belt sander I wasn't referring to you 
but what was suggested to him by the manufacturer of them and how they recommended material removal 
I can go on about rear main seals, I have professionally for 25 years 
Posted By: RO23dave
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/10/13 08:31 PM
This might be a silly response, but nobody has addressed it, are you sure the seal was put into the retainer correctly, meaning with the beveled edge facing towards the back of the block? just my
dave #1355 ss/ea
Posted By: fuseable
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 03:10 PM
Is this the way the seal should face?
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 03:51 PM
Quote:
Is this the way the seal should face?
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 05:55 PM
Thank you Commando1
Yes this is the correct orientation
On another note Lubrication,
Again treat the seal as if it were a bearing. Lubricate with bearing assembly lube, Torco, Red-Line, Clevite Bearing Guard or even STP. Motor oil alone may not be enough as it can take quite a while for oil to migrate to the rear seal. Shaft seals are designed to ride on a film of oil just like a bearing
Posted By: Hooligan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 06:05 PM
Speaking of bearings...what about those bearings that have the angled grooves cut in them to divert oil away from the rear seal?
I don't even know if they are available anymore or if they even helped prevent leakage.
Posted By: 383man
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 07:07 PM
I bought the Hughes billet retainer and seal for my last eng and it has not leaked a drop which actualy surprised me as most seem to show small seapage after time even when they dont leak. But I stagger the lip seal. I move the seal in the block and cap so about 1/4" sticks up out of the retainer and block as that way the seal ends dont meet where the retainer and block meet. Just curious if you do that ? Ron
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 07:08 PM
Quote:
Speaking of bearings...what about those bearings that have the angled grooves cut in them to divert oil away from the rear seal?
I don't even know if they are available anymore or if they even helped prevent leakage.
From what I've heard they are no longer available.
As stated earlier the seal is designed to ride on a film of oil for lubrication. If the seal does not have a concentric location of the lip to shaft or the parting halves are not properly aligned you will have problems more often than not.
Large main bearing oil clearances, high oil pressure and restricted oil drain back can overload the seal lip causing a leak path.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 10:12 PM
Just a suggestion all silicone sealers are not the same I would use a name brand and one that is oil resistant and frankly think of using good oil fashioned Indian head brand on outside edges Also you may want to remove the plugged breather Once the leak started no way the oil is going to stop following the easiest way out and use wheel bearing Grease on the seal itself
Posted By: rss
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 11:09 PM
Quote:
Speaking of bearings...what about those bearings that have the angled grooves cut in them to divert oil away from the rear seal?
I don't even know if they are available anymore or if they even helped prevent leakage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've heard they are no longer available.
Mancini has them on their website. 440 and 426 only. It is sold as a single set for the #5 bearing. Part number is MRE4349045. $19.95.
Posted By: drew72
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 11:10 PM
The best sealant for metal mating surfaces (cap to block) is anaerobic sealer. Works great and does not change the clearance properties. Silicone will actually keep the seal retainer lifted off of the block and create more problems. Permatex makes it in small tubes.
Posted By: Mopar73340
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/11/13 11:31 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Speaking of bearings...what about those bearings that have the angled grooves cut in them to divert oil away from the rear seal?
I don't even know if they are available anymore or if they even helped prevent leakage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've heard they are no longer available.
Mancini has them on their website. 440 and 426 only. It is sold as a single set for the #5 bearing. Part number is MRE4349045. $19.95.
I've used a couple sets of those grooved bearings on small blocks years ago. I don't know weather they help or not but the new seals didn't leak. A year or so ago I had to replace rear seal on my 408, the grooved bearings were not available so I made one like the previous ones I had used. So far no issues.
Posted By: Hooligan
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/12/13 02:48 PM
Looking at a rubber seal from a design stand point...since the lip on the seal is facing inward, it looks to me like when oil goes up against the lip, it would force the lip tighter against the crank.
Just a wild guess!
Posted By: drew72
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/12/13 03:31 PM
That IS the idea!!!!
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Third rear seal leaking - very frustrated!!! - 01/12/13 04:23 PM
Actually it's for any positive pressure that may be in the crankcase.
That much oil will most definitely overload the lip capacity of the seal.
On two piece split seals there is no garter spring on the back side of the seal lip. These solely rely on an interference fit to get the job done.
I have a few concepts for some new seal designs however, it is a HUGE investment just to test their abilities.