What to get for igniton system?

Posted By: itali83

What to get for igniton system? - 11/20/08 02:09 AM

Hey everyone, I'm looking to buy an ignition system for my car. I'm doing a complete restification and have already built the motor but don't have anything to work with for acessories so I need to buy everything. I definitly want electronic ignition, the motor is a mild 440, .040" over, mild hydraulic cam, aluminum heads, dual plane intake, nothing crazy. It will be a street strip car with plenty of strip time. I was wondering if I should buy the conversion kit for my current distributor or buy a completely new one. Also, should I get a MSD box , and if so, which one is the best for what I need. I'd like to have a rev limiter but being an auto car, I don't know how much that'll be needed really. I need to start looking at pricing as I now have more of a budget to follow and no more "money is no object" scenario. Let me know what combo's work for you. Thanks in advance!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/20/08 03:27 AM

I would consider FBO coil/ecu.

Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/21/08 04:40 PM

to me... Mopar performance ignition is good enough and still a Mopar

Posted By: Lefty

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/21/08 05:23 PM

I have a Pertronix distributor on the 440 in my Coronet and it works great. I checked the advance curve and it was already set up for a 440 per Ebergs article in Mopar Action. You don't need the MSD with this dist, it has the proven Pertronix module in it. I also have the 60,000 volt Pertronix "Flame Thrower" coil. The engine starts quickly with the setup. It is a vacuum advance dist. My fuel economy went up dramatically after hooking up the vacuum canister. Highly recommended for a street motor imo...

Posted By: 70dart360

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/21/08 05:24 PM

I got the MSD 6al thats black with a MP logo on it. You can run them off a stock elec distributor or points distributor, and it totally deletes that pesky ballast resistor.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 02:55 AM

Petronix is great. Have used several.

Be sure to use their coil or one that has the same specs and you should be gold.

Posted By: 383man

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 04:33 AM

The MP setup will work fine. I would price the FBO setup also as it works very good. You dont really need MSD for what you are building but of course if you want to spend the money it to will work good. As you know I run mid 11's with the MP orange ECU and the old Acell Super coil and it works great as I shift at 6200 and it never misses a beat.

Ron

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 01:40 PM

I like MSD 6AL for a few reasons,works great with Mopar distributor,rev limiter,and reliable.Oh and one more,if it ever does fail just send it back to MSD and it will be better than new for around $30.00.
Gus

Posted By: Greentween

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 05:28 PM

Quote:

I have a Pertronix distributor on the 440 in my Coronet and it works great. I checked the advance curve and it was already set up for a 440 per Ebergs article in Mopar Action. You don't need the MSD with this dist, it has the proven Pertronix module in it. I also have the 60,000 volt Pertronix "Flame Thrower" coil. The engine starts quickly with the setup. It is a vacuum advance dist. My fuel economy went up dramatically after hooking up the vacuum canister. Highly recommended for a street motor imo...

I dont recommend the Pertronix. I had bad results with it. I did back to back to back tests comparing the pertronix dizzy with my FBO dizzy and FBO box. With the pertronix the car would not idle correctly. Same timing both dizzys, no answer from pertronix as to why, although they did recommend different things to try (coil, direct 12v power feed, ect). Pop the FBO one back in and use its box, and car would idle perfect.

Plus the Pertronix you will need to grind on the head for it to fit (stock head).

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 07:52 PM

Just put the Petronix kit in an old dizzy.

Posted By: 5thAve

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 09:09 PM

Im happy with the mopar performance distributor and normal ECU I have on my 360. You can always get a better ignition box later if you want something different.

Posted By: 05dakota

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 09:52 PM

it needs a 12v feed, not thru the ballast resistor.

Quote:

I dont recommend the Pertronix. I had bad results with it. I did back to back to back tests comparing the pertronix dizzy with my FBO dizzy and FBO box. With the pertronix the car would not idle correctly. Same timing both dizzys, no answer from pertronix as to why, although they did recommend different things to try (coil, direct 12v power feed, ect). Pop the FBO one back in and use its box, and car would idle perfect.

Plus the Pertronix you will need to grind on the head for it to fit (stock head).

Posted By: 69CHARGERMD

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 11:11 PM

I would pony up for a MSD.

The 6AL should be fine,,,,i have that in the Charger (street car),,,,and have a Digital 6Plus in the Belvedere (race car)

I have run the MP orange,,and chrome,,,,and also did the FBO system...

I like the MSD by far...

Much easier on starting,,,built in rev limiter,,,car ran ALOT better..........

I "hid" mine under the dash/glove box,,,and ran the wires thru the firewall....very clean looking.......

I had nothing but problems with the FBO stuff,,,kept burning ballast resisters,,,and then a ECU box....

Posted By: Greentween

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/22/08 11:29 PM

Quote:

it needs a 12v feed, not thru the ballast resistor

Yep did that, 12v direct from battery. Unstable Idle.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 12:02 AM

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Dist...istributor.aspx

MSD ready to run pro distributor. Simple clean install with only 3 wires to hook up. No external msd ignition box is needed. However it doesn't have the multi-spark or rev limiter of the MSD boxes. If you really want a msd box, go with a 6AL, hook it up to a MP adjustable distributor. My preference would be to just go with the MSD all-in-one dist for simplicity's sake. Also I've heard enough stories of MSD box failures leaving people stranded.

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 01:42 AM

Quote:

I had nothing but problems with the FBO stuff,,,kept burning ballast resisters,,,and then a ECU box....

Same here.
Went thru 2 ballasts, then the FBO ECU failed, replaced with a MP chrome ECU, 1 more ballast then the MP ECU failed. All this within 1000 miles. I think it was the FBO coil causing the failures
Went back to a MP chrome, cheap Accel SS coil, 1.25 ohm ballast, 15,000 miles without a let down.

The MP chrome box is more than enough for most street cars (stay away from the MP orange box). If you want more, I'd go with a Mallory Hy-Fire 6al before the MSD 6al. You'll get more features for less $.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 01:51 AM

Quote:

I'd go with a Mallory Hy-Fire 6al before the MSD 6al. You'll get more features for less $.

Alright & is Mallory still made in USA.

Posted By: itali83

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 02:47 AM

Thanks everyone for your input. What is this FBO set up some are talking about. I'm really looking at keeping it simple and getting the mopar performance electronic conversion kit. Distributor, wire harness, box, ballast all in one. I can always add an ignition box at a later time if needed but I really want to get this car together before gas is illegal or 50 bucks a gallon so I need to simplify things where I can. Thanks again.

Posted By: Greentween

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 04:50 PM

Its fatory stuff. He sets up your dizzy to your combination, and supplies a factory type box, coil, ballast.
http://www.4secondsflat.com/

Posted By: Kudakidd

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/23/08 05:29 PM

Deep pockets? go MSD
Best bang for the buck. MP. Their new distributors are made by Mallory and have adjustable advance curves.

Posted By: OLD318

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/24/08 07:58 PM

IF you want a factory style electronic ignition package I would go to FBO... and get your
distributor re-curved with their package
also use their black ignition wires...
while your at it..

For an electronic setup, there is nothing better than what FBO does... PERIOD...

Forget, the MP kit, it is a flawed kit right out of the box. I would'nt even fool with it...

However,

The digital multi-spark systems out there from
MSD, Mallory, Jacobs etc..when they work..are absolutely better than the factory style
electronic setups..

Whether you go for a CD (capacitive discharge)
type ignition system or and inductive type (example: jacobs mileage master)
either one of those gives you multiple sparks per cylinder upto 3500 rpm
after 3500rpm its all just one spark...

I went with the digital system and had FBO
recurve the distributor. I've owned my 318 since
1982..

car runs fantastic..better today than EVER!
smooth, fast, quiet, and reliable (so far!)

Best of luck to you!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/24/08 09:58 PM

old318 did you have an issue with the MP dist? I have an FBO coil/ecu & was considering one for the adjustability & I understand it is made by Mallory? who I figure has better quality control than MP does.

Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/24/08 11:34 PM

The problem I have with the MSD or Petronics stuff is that when they fail they leave your car dead on the road and you know its gonna happen when you at that show thats 250 miles from home. With the stock MP stuff you can swap out the control box/ballast/mag trigger and be on your way. My orange box has been on my car since 83 but I always carry a spare box,ballast res and coil in my car. The car in the orig post above would run just fine with points and a better coil. Others have had orange boxes fail but I have 50-60 passes at the track with mine in the last 5yrs. The MP stuff is simple and reliable for a mild street/strip car.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/24/08 11:48 PM

I have the Crane HI6s box and coil with an MSD distributor in my 68 RR. Very nice and digital with rev limiter built in. For the money I'd consider the Crane ignition over the MSD 6AL.I
had problems with an MSD rev limiter on my MP
distributor. MSD says it won't work properly with a hall effects style pick up. If the new 440 source distributors will fire a Crane box that would be the way to go and definately get a vacuum advance unit. You need all the timing you can get (like 52 degrees as apposed to 38) to get any MPG...(I know I said MPG!!!)

Posted By: Kudakidd

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/25/08 12:36 AM

Quote:

The problem I have with the MSD or Petronics stuff is that when they fail they leave your car dead on the road. With the stock MP stuff you can swap out the control box/ballast/mag trigger and be on your way.

true dat

Posted By: cupcake

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/25/08 01:27 AM

the ready to run dist will run with out the box

Posted By: OLD318

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/25/08 06:04 PM

Quote:

old318 did you have an issue with the MP dist? I have an FBO coil/ecu & was considering one for the adjustability & I understand it is made by Mallory? who I figure has better quality control than MP does.

Oh yes, I bought the MP small block kit from
Glendora Dodge. Talk about a flawed kit.

First, the pickup coil and reluctor did not line up at all (vertically)..this caused the misallinged cylinders to misfire intermittantly..
and no amountof turning the allen wrench did
anything.

I replaced with Standard motor Products
Blue Streak parts reluctor and pickup coil
rotor and cap... and that fixed it.

Second, the "advance" unit which is suppose to
be adjustable,was not at all...
no amount of turning the allen wrench did
anything.

So my advance was something like 58 degrees
Which I think their instruction book says is OK in reality you want no more than 35 degrees on
any street mopar (racers maybe different)

So I got it overhauled by FBO- its great now!
(overhaul means rephased and recurved...)

You can get the MP distributor, but I would send
it to Don at FBO with your specs, engine size,
carb size, etc......

I was very glad I did this.. His e-book
"Tuning to win" is a great read on the subject.

Best of luck to you!

Posted By: GTXKen

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/25/08 06:16 PM

MSD 6AL and Pro Billit Distributer, rev limiter and easy to change curve and stop.

If you go FBO be careful, they are getting sloppy, it took them two tries and the advance range was still way off. When I returned the distributer I did a google maps view and the distributer was going back to some house in a a neighborhood, 100+ miles away from Don's. I bet hes got some kid set up with a distributer machine in a garage setting these things up now.

Posted By: itali83

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/25/08 10:33 PM

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm going to keep it simple and old school with the Mopar Performance Kit. Im not going to have someone build my distributor for me. That goes against the whole reason I'm rebuilding this car every nut and bolt. I've done everything so far and learned about it so I'm going to learn how and set up my own distributor as well. Thanks again

Posted By: 5thAve

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/27/08 02:07 AM

With the mopar performance one you can buy the mallory kit and adjust everything yourself. You might want to try that before having someone else do it.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: What to get for igniton system? - 11/27/08 04:40 AM

The current generation of orange mopar ignition boxes do not work very well. They have a tendency to retard the timing and create other maladies. The other problem is you think the car runs great with the orange box or at least ok..until you try something else. With that in mind the mopar set up is still the simplest way to go and I would just substitute the black FBO box for the orange box.