Posted By: CUDA8U
changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 05:21 AM
will my headers,fuel pump and motor mounts fit the 400 block from my 440?
changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues?
Posted By: eightlitermopar
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 05:24 AM
Your headers will sit lower (and possibly even fit better around torsion bars, etc.) with the B motor. This depends on what headers you have of course.
Everthing else you mentioned will bolt right on like the RB motor.
eight
Everthing else you mentioned will bolt right on like the RB motor.
eight
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 05:41 AM
starter?
thanks
thanks
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 05:42 AM
Assuming the same heads or head type with the same ex port height location. The "B" will move the headers/manifolds in/down 3/4" in a V pattern as the V of the deck is shrinking that amount. Might be able to check your tube clearances now & see if they will handle that amount of change
Posted By: eightlitermopar
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 06:08 AM
Quote:
starter?
thanks
Same starter. I've used the same starter on the 318, 383, 440, 496 stroker.
Posted By: VincentVega
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 03:43 PM
since the question has already been answered, what kind of 499 are you using? Is it a kit (i.e. 440 source), home-brewed, etc? Do you like it? Are the wrist pins in the oil ring land area?
Only reason I ask is I am building a B block stroker, too, and I'm trying to learn the pros/cons and tricks
Only reason I ask is I am building a B block stroker, too, and I'm trying to learn the pros/cons and tricks
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 04:47 PM
Quote:Just my
I am building a B block stroker,
I think the best practical limit for a B is an offset ground 440 crank/RB rods for 470 cubes for several reasons: rod/stroke ratio & pin height & if more cubes are wanted/needed, to use an RB block with the 3/4" addit'l deck height to work with
Posted By: VincentVega
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 04:54 PM
470 is what I have been leaning towards, for those exact reasons. The pistons in those 500" kits are like an inch tall. I can't imagine that has any benefit aside from bob weight. there's almost nothing to prevent piston slap, it's a weaker piston, there's higher side-loading.
Since my application is a street engine, w/ pump gas, I want to build for longevity. In a race application, the issues I mentioned can be probably be planned for. Hard to give up 30 cubes though.
Since my application is a street engine, w/ pump gas, I want to build for longevity. In a race application, the issues I mentioned can be probably be planned for. Hard to give up 30 cubes though.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 05:13 PM
Quote:I totally agree & on the 30 cubes me & a friend are soon going to start on a 535 cube RB (4.5" stroke) with a 440 source kit/super stealth heads
The pistons in those 500" kits are like an inch tall. I can't imagine that has any benefit aside from bob weight. there's almost nothing to prevent piston slap, it's a weaker piston, there's higher side-loading.
Since my application is a street engine, w/ pump gas, I want to build for longevity. Hard to give up 30 cubes though.
. I told him lets go as big as we can as nobody that I have ever spoken with (or heard about) has built an engine & lamented later on after the fact that they just had too much power to deal with & didn't know what to do with it 
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 06:31 PM
Quote:My first 400 block pump gas low deck street stroker has 6.800 long rods with a 4.25 stroke (511 C.I.), pistons are very light, 458 grams with no pins or rings but with the oil ring spacer
470 is what I have been leaning towards, for those exact reasons. The pistons in those 500" kits are like an inch tall. I can't imagine that has any benefit aside from bob weight. there's almost nothing to prevent piston slap, it's a weaker piston, there's higher side-loading.
Since my application is a street engine, w/ pump gas, I want to build for longevity. In a race application, the issues I mentioned can be probably be planned for. Hard to give up 30 cubes though.
The pistons come out of the bottom of the cylinders a lttle but it has not shown any conscequences form that 
I ended up swapping the 4.25 stroke crank to a 4.300 stroke(518 C.I. now ) to move the pistons up to zero deck after swapping the iron heads to a set of Eddy RPM aluminum heads C.I. is your freind if your wanting to make power Lots of different ways to make power 
I've made the same power with different heads using a 470 C.I.(3.910 stroke) as the bigger pump gas motor with similar M.W. ported heads, the smaller motor had more compression and a tunnel ram with two 750 CFM carbs, race gas instead of using a single plane and a single 1050 Dominator on pump gas on the larger 518 C.I. motor
Posted By: VincentVega
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 06:39 PM
that's great information, thank you. I do plan on Edelbrock Performer RPM heads (there's really nothing else I'm considering, actually)
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 07:07 PM
Headers can be a problem depending on the size and brand. I used the mini-starter, but a regular starter should fit. Both my low deck engines had heads with raised exhaust ports (B1-B/s, and Victor heads) and I used the Hooker 2" super comp headers for a 440, but I did have to ding them in a few places. If it's in the budget, TTI makes headers for specific head/deck height combinations.
The low deck will need a different intake manifold.
Fuel pump, motor mounts, oil pan, will interchange.
The length of the pistons in my 500 stroker is 2.29" from the bottom of the skirt to the top of the piston. The pin is in the oil ring land, but that is not an issue. For the street with an engine that won't be reved real high, the low deck 512 will make tons of torque.
Having too much power can get expensive if you have to beef up the drivetrain (trans, driveshaft, rear axle.)
The low deck will need a different intake manifold.
Fuel pump, motor mounts, oil pan, will interchange.
The length of the pistons in my 500 stroker is 2.29" from the bottom of the skirt to the top of the piston. The pin is in the oil ring land, but that is not an issue. For the street with an engine that won't be reved real high, the low deck 512 will make tons of torque.
Having too much power can get expensive if you have to beef up the drivetrain (trans, driveshaft, rear axle.)
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/16/12 07:46 PM
Quote:
nobody that I have ever spoken with (or heard about) has built an engine & lamented later on after the fact that they just had too much power to deal with & didn't know what to do with it
Yeah, if it was built right, didn't break stuff, good chassis and good tires.
There's another thread going right now where the guy is complaining about keeping a 440 runnning for at least one season and from what I can see it's from building it beyond its abilities. It's in the Racers Forum. I'll try to find/attach it.
Most look at it as a failed block, crank or whatever but it takes too much power to find the weakest link.
FOUND IT...............
"the block cracked someware above 60 passes. just one season. broke it october a year ago.
i was 3170 me in it.
i know people with ported 915 all out roller running in the 9s but i do not really need to put a roller to see how fast it will go. low 10s is fun, good respect and not a all new setup to do low 9s with chassis mods.
bang for the buck then is my stock engine 2000 zx12 ninja running 9.25s in cold mine shaft air at cecil md.
i think with my M1 tunnel ram two 770cfm holleys and roller it would do mid 9s but sofar i do not feel the need to push it. i have had trouble with issues. first was a broken spring caused a intake head to brake and mess up 3 chambers. the next fix was not a good one then a ring land broke and that busted a cylinder. 5 years later i get it out again with the 73 block same cam and heads 3rd pass 10.20 at cecil looking like we have teens maybe 0s later on. one year later from running at numidia at 1100ft all summer i go to cecil in october with 10.42 dial on the window and pull a 10.27@131.78mph with a 1.55 bog 60ft. i fix the issue by staging higher till i get to put the yellow cam back in the rear accelerator pump and pull a 1.48 60ft. thinking i got the teens. but not running as frisky as first pass and only got a 10.24@129mph and oiled the track from the 1/8th to where i shut it off. all the water went in the oil when the block split up the mains and pushed a oil pan gasket. it did not ruin anything but............... i am sick of something going wrong every year............... i finish a season. maybe after two years of not braking i will step the power up and see what happens (i would love to) i know the car is fun. more scary to me than the bike and the bike is faster."
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/18/12 03:48 AM
i have all the specs now,has a eddy performer rpm intake pn 7186,ported polished 906's,solid comp cam 23-232-4,1/2" oil pick up,10.5-1, etc etc etc
i could email specs,just too much to type
i could email specs,just too much to type
Posted By: ahy
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/18/12 04:28 AM
Hopefully you have the accessory mounts from your low deck core; anything that has attachment points on the head will be different due to different height vs RB. If you need mounts, Bouchillon can fix you up with the late 60's/early 70's style that matches up well with currently available aftermarket WP housings and other stuff.
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/18/12 04:53 AM
none of the brackets will fit?
Posted By: ahy
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/19/12 05:03 AM
On the brackets, anything that bolts to the head or manifold + water pump (alternator, PS, AC) will be a little different.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: changing 440 out for 499 low deck issues? - 12/19/12 10:15 PM
Quote:It depends on what brackets, some the early alternator brackest had two holes in them , non air conditioning cars at least, so you could use it on both the low decks and high decks
none of the brackets will fit?
Some of the BB water pump housings have the bolt boss located in different locations so the alternatot bracket needs to match the water pump 
You can make the trianagle alternator bracket out of some flat steel or aluminum