Moparts
Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run
Posted By: moparmedic
Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 04:39 PM
I am going to look at an engine that was rebuilt 5 or so years ago but never has been run. They guy sold the car it was going into. What are some issues that I should look for? On something like this, should it be taken apart completely, lubed and reassembled or just run it?
Posted By: Swedcharger67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 04:58 PM
It better be cheap...I would take it apart and check everything...very little you can trust nowadays...
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 05:03 PM
Quote:
It better be cheap...I would take it apart and check everything...very little you can trust nowadays...
For sure, it would be worth a lot more in my mind if it had be run.
I would never run it without taking it all apart to check everything. Most home rebuilt engines have problems.
Even if a known pro assembled it I would not trust it without disassembly. Too many if's.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 05:06 PM
To me it comes down to if any rust has formed. Alot of parts are oiled as part of the assembly process as you know but there's alot of bare machined metal that ain't touched with lube even if 5qts of oil was added & it was prelubed. I would at least pull the pan & possibly the intake. My #1 Q would be was it stored in a heated facility because if not, temp changes that get the ambient temp dropped below the dew point make moisture condense & rust ferrous parts. Also another consideration would be how expensive this eng is
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 05:36 PM
Yep how it was stored is definitely going to be an issue. I had mine rebuilt years ago and then lost funding for the project. I took out the push rods and that sealed the cylinders and relaxed all the springs. The rest was buttoned up with cheap gaskets. I just opened it up for a look last summer and it is still all nice and shiny metal but I will still go through the whole thing top to bottom before I fire it up.
My motor cost just over 2 grand in 2008 for a long block, just to compare price.
Who rebuilt it and what is the price?
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 06:39 PM
Take it from my experience. Do not assume it's been done correctly...or even done at all. Unless you can take it completely apart and check everything, assume that the entire engine needs to be rebuilt and pay accordingly.
If you get it home and it looks good, bonus for you.
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 08:19 PM
any way he will let you fire it up before money is exchanged?local guy?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:05 PM
Just because it runs doesn't mean squat , especially if the cam is a flat tappet and it's not broken in yet.
Treat it like a CORE motor unless it comes wit ha warranty or you are a gambler ...
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:05 PM
He is local. He says it was all done at a machine shop but has no receipts for the work and the shop has changed owners. So all I can really do is look at it. He said we can pull the pan and heads. Said he has over $4000 into it and is asking $1100 for it. It is a 383 with 915 heads. Says the heads were ported and the bowls blended and the block was bored 30 over and that all parts were new at the time.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:07 PM
Quote:
He is local. He says it was all done at a machine shop but has no receipts for the work and the shop has changed owners. So all I can really do is look at it. He said we can pull the pan and heads. Said he has over $4000 into it and is asking $1100 for it. It is a 383 with 915 heads. Says the heads were ported and the bowls blended and the block was bored 30 over and that all parts were new at the time.
RUN ... 
.... RUN
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:19 PM
why'd the shop changed hands? because the previous shop couldn't turn a profit because their work was so shoddy that they had to keep doing re-work for free?
I would DEFINITELY be afraid of this engine...it was built by someone who couldn't keep their doors open.
the engine needs to be completely disassembled. all machined surfaces need mic'd and bearings checked for proper clearances. bores and pistons need mic'd to be sure they are true, no taper, and proper piston to wall clearance.
but...then again, consider that a complete core 383 goes for what...$300-$500? if you're only paying $1100, are you ok with the fact that you might have to rebuild it yourself if it doesn't last?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:25 PM
I don't see anything spectacular enough there to be worth taking a gamble on a 383.
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 09:47 PM
I was able to call the shop, it has the same phone number just different name and owner. The last owner died and the widow sold the business. This seems plausable to me. I initially called to see if the owner either had records or remembered the build.
Good points on all of this, it is a huge gamble unless I can get it for the price of a core engine which I doubt, so I will pass unless I can get it cheap.
As always, I appreciate the advice.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 10:07 PM
Quote:
To me it comes down to if any rust has formed. Alot of parts are oiled as part of the assembly process as you know but there's alot of bare machined metal that ain't touched with lube even if 5qts of oil was added & it was prelubed. I would at least pull the pan & possibly the intake. My #1 Q would be was it stored in a heated facility because if not, temp changes that get the ambient temp dropped below the dew point make moisture condense & rust ferrous parts. Also another consideration would be how expensive this eng is
Rust doesn't bother or worry me like some. I have put some rusty stuff togeather and it stayed togeather and ran a long time.
The short block 440 motor that is in my 71 sat uncovered in a shed in Detroit for many years, lot's of rust, even on the cyl walls. Took scotchbright pads and removed most of the rust off of connecting rod and deck surfaces. One cly had some serious deep pitting in a 3" circle in one of the clys. It surely was not able to be cleaned up with a hone and I wasn't gonna bore the block again because of rust in one cly. I honed all 8 holes again and all the rings sealed up great.
I put higher compression pistons in it without rebalancing and it runs great. The cly with the rust was a non issue.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 10:11 PM
If I were selling such an engine for $1100, I would be willng to spend 1-2 hours disassembling with you to inspect to your satisfaction. Not to measure every component, but to make general the assessment that things had been been machined and were still untarnished (that it was not a junkyard rebuild).
Provided, of course, that you assured to me
first that you were a serious buyer and that if the engine were found to be acceptable inside that you'd hand over the full $1100 (or a close amount agreed to beforehand).
If it appears to be a good build with some performance parts inside, try spending $1100 on a fresh build and see how far it goes. I'd rather have an $1100 383 than a $3300 440.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/13/12 10:28 PM
I have bought a few racing engines over the years,like 6 of them.
My first racing hemi was bought from Chuck Beard from assumtion Ill. I spent 12 hours the first day in his shop on Jan 1, new years day and 6 hours the second day. We took the whole engine apart and put it back togeather. And then I decided to buy a trans from him also and took it all apart and back togeather.
Can you say it was termendous learning experience? It was huge and worth a lot of $$ to me.
I have done the same thing for guys who I have sold engines too, start with a complete engine and take it all apart with the potentional buyer. I have done it several times.
This time the guy did not buy the motor, only a supercharger.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/14/12 12:06 AM
Good choice passing on the engine. Just not worth the risk in my opinion.
Posted By: Chargerfan
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/16/12 06:30 AM
For $1100 I would buy it if I could see the inside to make sure they are new parts and see the condition of the block. Try rebuilding one for $1100. If I did buy it, I would definitely pull it apart and lube everything and put it back together. But that's just me.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/16/12 11:36 AM
Quote:
why'd the shop changed hands? because the previous shop couldn't turn a profit because their work was so shoddy that they had to keep doing re-work for free?
I would DEFINITELY be afraid of this engine...it was built by someone who couldn't keep their doors open.
I'm just curious, is that really the first thought that popped into your head?
Quote:
I was able to call the shop, it has the same phone number just different name and owner. The last owner died and the widow sold the business. This seems plausable to me. I initially called to see if the owner either had records or remembered the build.
I would agree with partially disassembling the engine for inspection. on the other hand, do you have the tools like mic's and bore guage and expertise to measure everything and reassemble it properly on your own? if not it might be a can of worms.
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/17/12 05:37 AM
[quote I would agree with partially disassembling the engine for inspection. on the other hand, do you have the tools like mic's and bore guage and expertise to measure everything and reassemble it properly on your own? if not it might be a can of worms.
That's really the problem, I have no idea what to look for except nice freshly milled iron and I don't have the tools to check it. Sounds like a good deal if it is what he says it is but you never know for sure.
Posted By: roe
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/18/12 12:23 AM
Quote:
[quote I would agree with partially disassembling the engine for inspection. on the other hand, do you have the tools like mic's and bore guage and expertise to measure everything and reassemble it properly on your own? if not it might be a can of worms.
That's really the problem, I have no idea what to look for except nice freshly milled iron and I don't have the tools to check it. Sounds like a good deal if it is what he says it is but you never know for sure.
Can u get someone from the board who is near you to measure the important stuff for you? There are plenty of great guys on here who are normally willing to help.
Also, maybe don't be so skeptical, everyone isn't out to "get you". Lol.
I did the unthinkable. I bought a used engine, unseen, from over 1000 miles away from someone I only spoke to by phone with a description and like 4 pictures. I had a really good feeling about the guy. I paid to have it shipped, with him assisting me on crating it, painted it, swapped a car pan/pickup, and put it in my car. Dialed in the carb and timing, and then drove it over 1100 miles from FL to TX 
Its still running strong. What kind of gut feeling do you get from the guy. Its a huge plus that he's local.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 02:17 PM
Quote:
That's really the problem, I have no idea what to look for except nice freshly milled iron and I don't have the tools to check it. Sounds like a good deal if it is what he says it is but you never know for sure.
Keep in mind that in any machine-shop thread on here, lots of people will tell you to double check their work and measure everything. So you can get a $4000 rebuild or $1100 rebuilt engine - same advice to remeasure it.
As mentioned, if you get good vibes from teh guy, take a chance. If you have some time, buy $3-400 worth of measuring tools and a blueprinting book and learn about measuring while become familiar with your new engine. Might last forever and be the cheapest engine you'll ever buy.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 03:17 PM
I'm with Roe, if your gut feels good & you open it up a bit & it ain't rusty then I would jump on it. He wont object to a bit of surgery as he's potentially going to get a grand in his pocket & if he did squawk then get a set of gaskets & button her up & call it good. But his 4K quote does sound a bit inflated but I cant say for sure on that
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 04:23 PM
I couldnt help myself and went and looked at it yesterday, and bought it. It was obvious that all the internals were new at the time of the rebuild and that there had been extensive machine work (bored, and balanced, and rebuilt 915 heads. It also came with a brand new performer RPM intake and a brand new Mopar electronic ignition conversion all still in the boxes. He also threw in the engine stand it was on. We haggled a bit and I think I got a good deal.
I will take it to a machinist to be sure everything is good to go.
Thanks for the advice, hopefully this works out in my favor.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 04:30 PM
So <$1100 for a rebuilt engine, with a perfomance build, + $400 worth of intake and ignition, and an engine stand?
Posted By: roe
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 07:25 PM
Quote:
So <$1100 for a rebuilt engine, with a perfomance build, + $400 worth of intake and ignition, and an engine stand?
[/quote
Posted By: 67Satty
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 07:32 PM
I think you got a good deal, I'm glad you just went for it and got it.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 10:00 PM
I agree. If you listen to all the old ladies on this board you will end up with $5000 stock 383s.
Now if you're turning it to 9500rpm, things change. But we seem to forget that engines are just lumps of iron and aluminum. The fact that the guy's local and you had a good feeling about it even after listening to all the carping means it's most likely going to work out for you.
R.
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 10:25 PM
Yeah, I think I did good. Super nice guy and I believed his story and it appears to be as described.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 10:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
[quote I would agree with partially disassembling the engine for inspection. on the other hand, do you have the tools like mic's and bore guage and expertise to measure everything and reassemble it properly on your own? if not it might be a can of worms.
That's really the problem, I have no idea what to look for except nice freshly milled iron and I don't have the tools to check it. Sounds like a good deal if it is what he says it is but you never know for sure.
Can u get someone from the board who is near you to measure the important stuff for you? There are plenty of great guys on here who are normally willing to help.
Also, maybe don't be so skeptical, everyone isn't out to "get you". Lol.
I did the unthinkable. I bought a used engine, unseen, from over 1000 miles away from someone I only spoke to by phone with a description and like 4 pictures. I had a really good feeling about the guy. I paid to have it shipped, with him assisting me on crating it, painted it, swapped a car pan/pickup, and put it in my car. Dialed in the carb and timing, and then drove it over 1100 miles from FL to TX Its still running strong. What kind of gut feeling do you get from the guy. Its a huge plus that he's local.
I'm glad that worked out for you. I am usually trusting also and I like to think there are honest people left out there. But I did what you did...trusted the word of a stranger...and got burned. When I bought my "rebuilt" engine for $1800, he described it as ready to drop in and run. Rebuilt bottom end, heads with only 5000 miles on them, etc. He too was a really nice guy and made all the right noises....really sounded solid. Well, the bottom end was done like he said, but the rest of the engine was little more than scrap metal. If I had tried to start it, all kinds of carnage would have happened. When I called him to ask why he screwed me, he didn't return my call. Shocker.
In any case, I sincerely hope it works out for the OP...
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 11:06 PM
Yeah, I hear you. This one will not get run without a trip to the machine shop.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 11:14 PM
Quote:
I agree. If you listen to all the old ladies on this board you will end up with $5000 stock 383s.
Now if you're turning it to 9500rpm, things change. But we seem to forget that engines are just lumps of iron and aluminum. The fact that the guy's local and you had a good feeling about it even after listening to all the carping means it's most likely going to work out for you.
R.
God forbid people on the board look out for one another .
I know of at least one board member getting taken by another board member with a TAILLIGHT WARRANTY ...
I personally looked at the engine and passed on it because I didn't like what I saw/was told along with said taillight warranty, the member that bought it was so lucky ...
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/19/12 11:49 PM
I appreciated hearing both sides which is why I posted the question. I had to go look for myself because it sounded good, maybe too good, but was only an hour drive so what the heck.
I will post what the final outcome is after I get it back from the machine shop.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/20/12 02:34 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If you listen to all the old ladies on this board you will end up with $5000 stock 383s.
God forbid people on the board look out for one another .
But you can't deny there is a strong contingent of folks that believe anything not done to the nth degree, or was done by somebody else, is junk and worth only core price so that it can be redone again 'properly'. That's why the $5000 383 remark.
When it's someone else's money, people frequently lose sight of the original budget and/or goals (yes, I know OPs don't always tell us).
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/20/12 04:24 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you listen to all the old ladies on this board you will end up with $5000 stock 383s.
God forbid people on the board look out for one another .
But you can't deny there is a strong contingent of folks that believe anything not done to the nth degree, or was done by somebody else, is junk and worth only core price so that it can be redone again 'properly'. That's why the $5000 383 remark.
When it's someone else's money, people frequently lose sight of the original budget and/or goals (yes, I know OPs don't always tell us).
Point taken and I have a $5000 383 because the last 2 PROFESSIONAL engine shops screwed things up, just because it's freshly rebuilt does not mean it's right.
Everything to me is a CORE unless I personally know who did it and what equipment it was done on.
Posted By: BDW
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/20/12 05:06 PM
Got to ask,
What's a "tail light warranty" ?
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/20/12 07:00 PM
A warranty that expires when the seller sees your taillights as you drive away.
R.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/20/12 08:07 PM
Quote:
A warranty that expires when the seller can no longer see your taillights as you drive away.
R.
fixed 
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 12:13 AM
What are your expectations or goals? If the goal is to have a motor that can run okay with minimal work, could be fine.
If your looking for a high performance engine for possible future hp upgrades, its probably not worth it.
Here is my observation, 100% of the time....when a guy that really does not know much about engines/parts/machining, buys a completely rebuilt engine for a price that is too good to be true....it always is.
The one redeeming aspect is the 915 heads. You might be able to actually get 9:1 CR out of it, if the pistons arent .100" in the hole (like some are). I'm yet to see a guy that is on a budget do a set of factory heads correctly in the last 5 years as the cost is higher than new Stealths.
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 06:46 AM
My goal is a good reliable street engine.
Dropped it off at the machine shop this morning. They should be able to tell me whether I did good or not next week sometime.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 06:48 AM
Have them measure the compression distance when they pull the head.
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 06:57 AM
They are going to check everything including rechecking the ballancing that was done.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 12:16 PM
Good. But you need to get the compression distance now before the engine is disassembled so you can estimate what you have in compression ratio, and will be able to start making good informed decisions now regarding what you might want/need to do. If you are looking to make this a high performance engine, you need this piece of information before you spend money on anything else.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 11/21/12 02:29 PM
Good luck sounds like you will do OK!
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/14/12 05:28 AM
I finally heard back from the machine shop. All the machine work that was done is good. The bore, balance, hone, all that. They recommend decking the block and surfacing the heads and redoing the valve job. The pistons are good quality but the rings are low bid. The machinist said they used mismatched main and rod bearings as if they just used left over parts from other jobs.
Basically this engine was a good start and could have been run as is.
I got it for $800 so I think I got a good deal. Just have to tweek it a bit now.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/14/12 01:34 PM
Good news!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/14/12 02:20 PM
Quote:
I finally heard back from the machine shop. All the machine work that was done is good. The bore, balance, hone, all that. They recommend decking the block and surfacing the heads and redoing the valve job. The pistons are good quality but the rings are low bid. The machinist said they used mismatched main and rod bearings as if they just used left over parts from other jobs.
Basically this engine was a good start and could have been run as is.
I got it for $800 so I think I got a good deal. Just have to tweek it a bit now.
yes you did...
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/14/12 08:43 PM
Quote:
The machinist said they used mismatched main and rod bearings as if they just used left over parts from other jobs.
I've heard of engine builders using bearing halves from different sets to tweak the final clearances. I'm not saying it's right or what I'd do, just putting it out there.
Congrat's on a good deal otherwise. 
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/15/12 01:40 AM
Yeah, not sure about that either. The guys at the machine shop didn't mention that as a possibility but could be. Just showed me the ones they took out and there were 3 different brands and one that wasn't marked and was a different color than the rest. Kind of weird.
Should get it back next week and get my tranny from Passon Performance in a couple weeks and be close to driving my Challenger. Just in time for winter...
Posted By: roe
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/16/12 05:59 PM
I'm glad it seems to all be working out for you
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/16/12 06:46 PM
Quote:
I've heard of engine builders using bearing halves from different sets to tweak the final clearances.
Right, but not from different manufacturers.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/16/12 06:53 PM
Quote:
I finally heard back from the machine shop. All the machine work that was done is good. The bore, balance, hone, all that. They recommend decking the block and surfacing the heads and redoing the valve job. The pistons are good quality but the rings are low bid. The machinist said they used mismatched main and rod bearings as if they just used left over parts from other jobs.
Basically this engine was a good start and could have been run as is.
I got it for $800 so I think I got a good deal. Just have to tweek it a bit now.
Did you get the compression distance or compression height of the pistons from the machine shop?, or piston manufacturer and part number?
Posted By: moparmedic
Re: Buying a rebuilt engine that has never been run - 12/17/12 01:31 AM
I didn't. I am just doing a street engine, not going to go really wild with it. Just cleaning up a few things that the machine shop recommended and put it together and run it.