2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this?

Posted By: Scamp451

2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/18/12 11:53 PM

My wifes van has had new struts, sway bar bushings, sway bar links, four rack and pinions and going on the 3rd set of tires at 82k miles. Had it alined and checked by different shops, tires balanced everything is good I am told. Why are the tires wearing like this then? When braking for cruising speed the steering wheel shakes pretty bad. New brakes and rotors too which helped some but the shake will be back. Help.

Posted By: Scamp451

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/19/12 12:06 AM

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Posted By: Scamp451

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/19/12 12:08 AM

Second pic

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Posted By: Daty Rogers

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/19/12 12:23 AM

Still think the alignment is bad, shaking may be caused by out of balance tires.

-Daty

Posted By: Todd

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/19/12 03:58 AM

Looks like a an alignment issue.
Get a print out of the results. You should have .1 degrees positive camber and .10 degrees toe in.
As for the brake shake get the rotors machined and check the run out on the hub flange.

Posted By: therocks

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/19/12 12:09 PM

I agree looks like bad alingment.When the struts are replaced you have to have either new adjustable bolts installed or grind out the piece thats made in the bolt hole to adjust them for camber.The shake when braking is bad rotors.Tire balance had nothing to do with it when braking only.Ive seen new rotors out of the box that were warped.That or someone over tightens the wheels and warps them.Thats why I either use torque sticks or my T wrench.Typically new rotors are so thin that there isnt enough meat to turn them before they hit discard or minimum machine.Ive had better luck in the last 30 years at the shop using the store brand rotors than the hi buck ones.Do you have a printout from the last alingment?Rocky

Posted By: AARCONV

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 01:23 AM

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

Posted By: 383man

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 02:06 AM

Is that both front tires wearing the same ? If both front tires are wearing the same on inner or outer edges then its a toe issue. If only one side is wearing (one front tire not both) then its a chamber issue. One other thing I would see is from not rotating the tires. Does she have the tires rotated on a normal schedule like every other oil change ? You have to remember the front tires take alot of the weight when stopping and turning. It will cause the front tires to wear on the outer edges much more then the rear and if you dont rotate the tires about every 5000 to 7500 miles it will cause the front tires to wear much more then the rear. And if you never rotate them the rear tires will last about twice as long. But as was stated get the alignment printout and you can post it on here. Ron

Posted By: moretoys

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 02:10 AM

I'd like to see some alignment reading. lets say static alignment is ok. then other possibilities could be.do you ever rotate tires?? make sure tire psi is ok. Low tire psi causes positive camber to happen and rapid tire wear. the other possibility is in/out of tight spaces,wheels turned to full lock causes tires to lean out at the top.+ low tire pressure.= outside tire wear. does it handle ok?even in wet road conditions? alignment off will usually cause some instability. cheapy tires will also cause premature wear. some cheap tires have a real soft sidewall,tires kinda roll over on themselves on turns. Front tires will always wear on the outside edge.it's the leaning over on turns.
is there extra weight in the back that isn't there when you have it aligned?squatting in the rear takes weight from the front,& the tires will lean out at the top.
The shaking when braking is most likely warped rotor. Just because there new doesn't mean a thing. I've had some bad right out of the box. problem is getting worse.aftermarket parts in general are iffy.

Posted By: therocks

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 11:36 AM

Ron I forgot about tire rotation.Most people dont rotate them.I also read 4 racks.Man where are you getting them.Plus a lot of brakes.Ive found for the most part Quick Struts are the way to go.They can be installed in what 1/2 hour and everything is new.My wifes PT has 125 and only on the second set of brakes.She drives hard.My brother and nephew have Caravans and no way do they go thru that many tires or brakes.They both drive hard also and my brothers is usually loaded.As said cheap tires will also wear odd and fast.Rocky

Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 01:34 PM

Quote:

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

I would check wheel hubs for play...

Posted By: 383man

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 01:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

I would check wheel hubs for play...

That is true but since it was aligned a few times they should (the shops that did the alignments) have checked all the front end parts before aligning it. But SHOULD is the big player here.

Ron

Posted By: Todd

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 01:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

I would check wheel hubs for play...

Any reputable alignment shop would have found those issues even before hanging the heads.
If I find any problems with worn parts like that it gets fixed before the alignment. I don't want it coming back if it does I get to do it for free.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/20/12 02:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

I would check wheel hubs for play...

Any reputable alignment shop would have found those issues even before hanging the heads.
If I find any problems with worn parts like that it gets fixed before the alignment. I don't want it coming back if it does I get to do it for free.

Thats basically what I was saying as I was in the same boat where we would be doing it for free if it came back and we missed worn front end parts when doing a front end alignment. Ron

Posted By: Todd

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 12:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

you didn't mention lower ball joints or tie rods...or even a wheel bearing...bearings will give you a shake as you described..when you changed the struts in the front...did you change the top strut mounts also? is it just the outside of that one tire or both sides?

I would check wheel hubs for play...

Any reputable alignment shop would have found those issues even before hanging the heads.
If I find any problems with worn parts like that it gets fixed before the alignment. I don't want it coming back if it does I get to do it for free.

Thats basically what I was saying as I was in the same boat where we would be doing it for free if it came back and we missed worn front end parts when doing a front end alignment. Ron

You treed me by 2 minutes. I'm a slow typer.

Posted By: dvw

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 01:17 PM

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If your talking about cupping on the edges it has more to do with tread design than alignment. Assuming the alignment is correct. Cross rotating the tires from left to right so they rotate in the opposite direction is the ONLY cure. If done during normal intervals they will stay like new. If the cupping is already severe it will help but the damage has been done. Old theory suggested never to cross radials. This is not true with today's tires. I worked as a dealer tech for 27 years doing alignments.
Doug

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 02:24 PM

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WOW,, bet that drives like a car on poly glass tires on a rain slick muddy country road!!
You need some one else doing front end alignment and repairs!!!
I have seen alot of 'so called' repairs done to cars that where never done !
What a shame,
I have seen dealers tell a customer that had brought their van in 3 x over growling in the front end,, brakes wore plum into the rotor so bad you would not believe!!,, Then tell the customer , yeah we drove it and everything is fine! charge her $100 each time 'for nothing wrong' !!
On the 4 try I took it in I all ready looked at it knew the issue,
the service manager(yeah right), drove it, came back , said , " it needs new tires and shocks "!
gave us a price,, on cost to repair @ $1000,, That's when I stepped up,, said , Look dum dum, it just need brakes,!! and now rotors!!
He looked at me, said are you ASE certfied mechanic??, YES I AM !!!
He goes , well you put on the pads and rotors , when that don't fix it, you come on back we will fix it!!
Would not take a pedal car to a dealer!!

Posted By: therocks

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 05:24 PM

I cant believe the people that bring cars in for an alingnment because it has a shake in the front end.That and the ones that had bad parts that wanted an one done anyway.Id just tell them it wont fix a wobble.The ones with bad parts were told no also.Some really insisted.The Favorite saying was I know it needs TR or etc but do it anyway.I wont complain when its still bad.Politley told them either fix it or leave.Rocky

Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 05:53 PM

ck the run-out on the wheel bearings, turn replace rotor and have alignment re-checked... ck tire ballance to.. make sure all the LCA bushings are good.....

Posted By: Todd

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/21/12 06:30 PM

Quote:

I cant believe the people that bring cars in for an alingnment because it has a shake in the front end.That and the ones that had bad parts that wanted an one done anyway.Id just tell them it wont fix a wobble.The ones with bad parts were told no also.Some really insisted.The Favorite saying was I know it needs TR or etc but do it anyway.I wont complain when its still bad.Politley told them either fix it or leave.Rocky

I run into that all the time.
I get the repair order and it says, customer states has vibration wants alignment checked.
I then have to ask do you want the vibration fixed or just the alignment checked.
I guess some people just don't understand.

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/22/12 02:22 AM

Quote:

...Low tire psi causes positive camber to happen...

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/22/12 04:41 PM

After the fixes discussed are completed try 41 lbs of pressure in the tires not 36.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 2003 Grand Caravan tire wear- bad what is causing this? - 10/22/12 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I cant believe the people that bring cars in for an alingnment because it has a shake in the front end.That and the ones that had bad parts that wanted an one done anyway.Id just tell them it wont fix a wobble.The ones with bad parts were told no also.Some really insisted.The Favorite saying was I know it needs TR or etc but do it anyway.I wont complain when its still bad.Politley told them either fix it or leave.Rocky

I run into that all the time.
I get the repair order and it says, customer states has vibration wants alignment checked.
I then have to ask do you want the vibration fixed or just the alignment checked.
I guess some people just don't understand.

Sorry about treeing you on my last post.

I always like the ones that want the alignment and have the bad vibration they want looked at. So a good tech checks out the vibration of course before any alignment and then when you tell the customer they need a part to fix the vibration and then do the alignment. And they say forget it and dont do anything and they dont think they should have to pay any checkout time.

Oh they want us to work for free. Ron