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18 spline 4 speed recomendations?

Posted By: Silverbullet2

18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 01:02 AM

I read something about having some of the gears "faceplated". What does that mean? My car will be 99% street driven so I'm pretty sure I don't want it "pro-shifted" or anything that would affect normal driving. About the only failure I ever had with this trans was a broken 3-4 fork. Does anybody make a stronger, better fork? Would it be advisable to replace the synchros, blocking rings, and sliders? (It's a 1968 box and mostly original.) I've heard some of the new replacement bearings are no good and won't last. Is there a source for good quality bearings? I like the old borg and beck style clutch too. Does anybody make that style of clutch with a button type disc? I don't really want a double disc and I figure the button type would probably stand a little more (occasional) abuse. Thanks!
Posted By: mark7171

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 01:10 AM

I'm not really sure? But....

I went to brewers and they hooked me up with a new E body 18 spline. Ready to go for $1,800 can't beat that. No tax, core, or shipping. They can tell you what is what.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 01:17 AM

Well the Faceplate is a much more streetable modification than Pro-Shift gears having driven both types.My Richmond 5-Speed is faceplated and it drives OK on the street.You can still get the big 308 bearing made in America but it is rather expensive.For the rebuild I would contact Jamie Passon over at Passon Performance for all the top quality rebuild parts and some world class advice the 833 transmission.I always used the steel forks from the later model units and cut the detent pin off.I prefer Mcleod clutches and they do make racing style discs but some of the friction materials don't come back once you smoke them.
Here is a pic of my Faceplate internals.As you can see they replace the syncronizer assemblies with a Dog and ring setup.
Gus

Attached picture 4809313-smallerrichmond.jpg
Posted By: gearbanger

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 01:35 AM

Very informative and interesting comments there Savoy man. I was wondering if the syncro hub and slider teeth get chewed up as much with the dog and ring style. The way power changes from one gear to the next has changed, but not how you connect the hub to the slider. I've seen this before on a factory slick shifted 18 spline. I guess shock loading at 6000rpm does stuff like that.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 01:45 AM

There is such a huge window to hit the gear it hardly even clashes like a slick or Pro-shift unit.I got tired of constantly replacing the 3-4 slider and dressing my gears I just bit the bullet on the 5-speed and got it done right the first time.They are doing faceplate mods third and fourth for the 833 now but first and second are still an issue because of the reverse gear being part of the slider.
Gus
another pic

Attached picture 4809380-smallcompletew.shifter.jpg
Posted By: gearbanger

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 02:11 AM

I guess like everything on these old cars, technology has made modifications or replacements necessary to handle more power or be more reliable. Sorry to get off topic a bit there Silverbullit. For what you want to do, I wouldn't stray to far from stock configuration, but use good components and properly assembled with the guidance of Mr. Passon.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 02:49 PM

I would just keep the trans stock , Savoy has given you some very sound advice , use it as you see fit .
Posted By: 69Y2RT

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 03:52 PM

We have new steel 1/2 and 3/4 forks that are a direct replacements for the brass forks.
No modifications are necessary and they fit the holders much better than the over drive forks.

$48.55 for the 1/2 fork
$23.72 for the 3/4 fork

Attached picture 4810357-1-2and3-4fork.jpg
Posted By: IMGTX

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 04:11 PM

I agree with JohnRR the stock trans for a street car is fine.

If you need bearings or parts I have personally used Brewers and have zero complaints. The same with Jamie Passon and his stuff too.

Assuming you have a Solid trans & Shifter, good synchros, clean shifter, shift rods not worn out. etc, for the trans to shift right you need these things right.

1. Properly adjusted clutch
2. Properly adjusted shifter
3. Correct Trans fluid.

I mix my own Trans Fluid but Jamie makes some bang up stuff now. Worth the money from everyone I have talked to that has used it.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 04:29 PM

Quote:

We have new steel 1/2 and 3/4 forks that are a direct replacements for the brass forks.
No modifications are necessary and they fit the holders much better than the over drive forks.

$48.55 for the 1/2 fork
$23.72 for the 3/4 fork



Why the huge price difference between the 2 forks ?

I modified the OD forks and used them , didn't notice that they were loose in the shift levers ??
Posted By: domingo

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 04:31 PM

they might fit loose if they are worn out I guess!!! I use the OD forks on my 4 speeds as well. Nice to know there are new replacements though...its getting progressively harder to find parts for the old mopars...heck, I could go to the junkyard and finds lots of 383s small blocks, eventually a 440 and several 4 speeds, the OD units being more common.

Now I cant find not even an oil pan for a big block. Everything went to the scrap pile or foundries.
Posted By: 69Y2RT

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 07:58 PM

The 3/4 fork fits other applications so more were made so we got a better pricing on them.
The 1/2 fork got some additional attention in adding the third pad on them so there was some extra expense to have them made.

The difference in the fit in the holder is noticeable when you compare the two side by side.
The new ones are supported the full length of the holder so that may be the difference.

We were having a hard time finding od forks that were good and finding them at a reasonable price,
so we stepped up and had them made. Not to replace anyone else's product, more to give people another option.
Posted By: Cuda340

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 08:03 PM

Quote:

The 3/4 fork fits other applications so more were made so we got a better pricing on them.
The 1/2 fork got some additional attention in adding the third pad on them so there was some extra expense to have them made.

The difference in the fit in the holder is noticeable when you compare the two side by side.
The new ones are supported the full length of the holder so that may be the difference.

We were having a hard time finding od forks that were good and finding them at a reasonable price,
so we stepped up and had them made. Not to replace anyone else's product, more to give people another option.




Why do they have to be the OD forks? The interlocking lever design came out in 1970 5 years before the first OD. Aren't the forks the same between the 75 and up OD and 70 and up non-OD interlocking lever design?
Posted By: 69Y2RT

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/13/08 08:56 PM

You are right, I have a habit of calling them the od style fork.
I should be calling them the scissors interlock style fork.
Posted By: Cuda340

Re: 18 spline 4 speed recomendations? - 11/14/08 02:05 PM

Quote:

You are right, I have a habit of calling them the od style fork.
I should be calling them the scissors interlock style fork.



Thanks... I was just curious b/c I put together my 1969 18 spline A-body custom 4-speed and I didn't use the OD forks, but I did use the steel forks and cut the nipple off. It works great... I just assumed they are all the same...
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