383 / BB oil pickup confusion

Posted By: edp

383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 06:52 PM

I thought this was interesting so I thought I'd post an update:

a while back I posted a question about BB oil pickups, its for a 69 383 HP motor - thread link below....

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7335269

The confusion came from both pictures in online catalogs as well as Mopar Performance catalog images vs. what came out of my engine & needed to go back. Everybodys in agreement, dont go by catalog images! What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

I needed to return some items to Jeg's so to solve the problem I bought both- here's some pic's & data about both....

they seem to be the same shape & size overall, I haven't measured height yet but the threads,the tube ID, the curve, the oil pickup on the bottom all seem the same. The OD however is larger on the 4529564 by .070, much thicker pipe.

So who knows which is correct for which motors, it'd be good to know & I need to figure out which one to use as well.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 07:07 PM

I went out and measured a Mopar 3/8 pickup that I have had in a motor, the tip measures .638 (using a set of dail calipers)on the outside edges of the threads at the tip that screws into the block

Try your small one in your block and then the bigger one

Use the one you like the best

Posted By: edp

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 07:43 PM

thats probably what I'll do. my other thought was regarding how close to the pan bottom the pickup screen is. Whats the max distance it should be from the bottom - any idea?

Posted By: kidmopar

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 07:53 PM

Seeing as that INSIDE DIAMETER is VERY close , it must be a "THICKER" 'wall' on the tube? I'm assuming these are 3/8" pick-ups? NOT 1/2" ?

Posted By: kidmopar

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 07:57 PM

Quote:

thats probably what I'll do. my other thought was regarding how close to the pan bottom the pickup screen is. Whats the max distance it should be from the bottom - any idea?

I would 'think' 1/4" - 1/2" MAX

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 08:28 PM

stock-flush on the bottom. high rpm/loose clearances/oil passage mods/hi vol pump/extra oil-1/8" off bottom

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/22/12 08:54 PM

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

I have used the pickup that you THINK is incorrect more than once with a 402 pan , so unless Mopar changed something since the last time I bought one , maybe 4 years ago , I don't see how it is incorrect.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 05:46 AM

Quote:

thats probably what I'll do. my other thought was regarding how close to the pan bottom the pickup screen is. Whats the max distance it should be from the bottom - any idea?

All the factory service manuals call for the bottom of the pickup to rest on the bottom of the pan

I shoot for a coat hanger width from the bottom max or or the flat part of the dipstick width on mine

I remove the drain plug while the motor is on the engine stand upside down to set that clearance. twist and

to get it there

Posted By: edp

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 04:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

I have used the pickup that you THINK is incorrect more than once with a 402 pan , so unless Mopar changed something since the last time I bought one , maybe 4 years ago , I don't see how it is incorrect.

The reasons for my showing the differences between the 2 pickups isn't because I think one is correct or not, rather to illustrate the confusion because of the catalogs & similarities between the two. I certainly didn't expect them to have virtually identical shapes. I just figured I couldn't of been the only guy ever confused by this issue & it might be helpful to show this in both pic's & spec's. Its great to know the 4529564 works w/a 402 pan w/o problems, now we also know that the 5007848 will work as well because they're virtually identical. I think it was worth an extra $24 bucks to clear up my confusion & anyone in the future can benefit from this now.

Quote:

All the factory service manuals call for the bottom of the pickup to rest on the bottom of the pan I shoot for a coat hanger width from the bottom max or or the flat part of the dipstick width on mine I remove the drain plug while the motor is on the engine stand upside down to set that clearance. twist and to get it there

They obviously must sit really close as my original one was bent really badly & the pan had a major dent in it. After threading it into the block Are you actually hammering on it while its installed to set the clearance?

Thanks all,
Evan

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 05:52 PM

Quote:

Seeing as that INSIDE DIAMETER is VERY close , it must be a "THICKER" 'wall' on the tube? I'm assuming these are 3/8" pick-ups? NOT 1/2" ?

1/2" is .500", 3/8" is .375". Looks like it's neither.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 06:17 PM

Once I get the pickup set close to level in relation to the bottom of the pan, I use a small flashlight to look through the drain plug, I do use a rubber dead blow hammer to make it fit

You can use a block of wood also, don't go crazy on the first blow, take it easy, take your time and get it right

Posted By: edp

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 06:38 PM

supercuda - weird huh! they're may be a slight roll over of the lip on the threaded end where it was cut prior to threading & it is a thinker wall tube but same thread diameter, maybe its just loosey goosey mfg-ing tolerances in the aftermarket??

Thanks for the tips Cab, I'll use your method when I get that far.

Now off to go pickup an 83/4 suregrip froma guy! Birthday present to myself

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 07:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

I have used the pickup that you THINK is incorrect more than once with a 402 pan , so unless Mopar changed something since the last time I bought one , maybe 4 years ago , I don't see how it is incorrect.

The reasons for my showing the differences between the 2 pickups isn't because I think one is correct or not, rather to illustrate the confusion because of the catalogs & similarities between the two. I certainly didn't expect them to have virtually identical shapes. I just figured I couldn't of been the only guy ever confused by this issue & it might be helpful to show this in both pic's & spec's. Its great to know the 4529564 works w/a 402 pan w/o problems, now we also know that the 5007848 will work as well because they're virtually identical. I think it was worth an extra $24 bucks to clear up my confusion & anyone in the future can benefit from this now.

Thanks all,
Evan

Huh ???

Go back a read what YOU posted

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

YOU are ASSuMEing that the number I gave you is WRONG because Mancini told you something different.

I have my 2002 Mopar Performance catalog in front of me which is where I got that P4529564 part number , The number that you got from Mancini isn't even in this catalog anywhere .

All you have is conflicting information, the P4529564 WORKS and is what MP was/is selling, it's listed application is B engine, 68-72. The majority of B engines from 68- 72, in what we'll assume is MUSCLE CAR era applications and not C bodies, came with the 402 pan installed on it ... That's B bodies and E bodies, so tell us how it's wrong, please?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/23/12 07:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Seeing as that INSIDE DIAMETER is VERY close , it must be a "THICKER" 'wall' on the tube? I'm assuming these are 3/8" pick-ups? NOT 1/2" ?

1/2" is .500", 3/8" is .375". Looks like it's neither.

Posted By: edp

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 03:10 AM

john, apparently your taking my comments personally as I've tried really hard in all my comments to not point a finger, blame, be offensive or anything of the such yet everytime I post something you jump in & tell me I've done or interpreted something incorrectly - what gives?

If I've done that I'll apologize now although I don't believe I have.

since you're hell bent on making sure that I seem to know my "assumptions" or "interpretations" are incorrect, I'll clarify...

here's the MP catalog - a later version than yours - 2009....the pic will prove that so we wont have to argue this anymore....BTW note the "supersedes all previous catalogs" in red

oil pickups - note it only differentiates hemi, B & RB - overall it lacks info. Also, the only reason I ever thought of the P5007848 pickup was because of a pic online from Summit racing, which BTW is actually accurate of the shape....

[image]http://[/image]

so the confusion initially came from images & catalog confusion - both MP & online info from Summit & Jeg's so than I called Mancini because according to their website they actually sold a 402 pan & pickup kit. When I called they didn't sell it anymore & the guy informed me the closest one to the original was the P5007848, I even asked him about the 4529564 & he insisted the 500 was closer - you see how its been confusing? Have I been asking the wrong questions or listening to the wrong people - well according to you I was but my comparison pictures seem to tell a different story & thats exactly why i got both pickups was to find out the actual answer......not prove you wrong, which is what you seem to interpret it as.

Let me be clear, I've never said you were wrong, I've never insinuated you were wrong, I've only stated what info I was told & had picked up from others in a effort to solve this problem.

the only purpose of this post was to share knowledge of a direct parts comparison which others hopefully will find helpful.

I'll finish with this - Its not all about you!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 05:58 AM

Quote:

john, apparently your taking my comments personally as I've tried really hard in all my comments to not point a finger, blame, be offensive or anything of the such yet everytime I post something you jump in & tell me I've done or interpreted something incorrectly - what gives?

If I've done that I'll apologize now although I don't believe I have.

since you're hell bent on making sure that I seem to know my "assumptions" or "interpretations" are incorrect, I'll clarify...

here's the MP catalog - a later version than yours - 2009....the pic will prove that so we wont have to argue this anymore....BTW note the "supersedes all previous catalogs" in red

oil pickups - note it only differentiates hemi, B & RB - overall it lacks info. Also, the only reason I ever thought of the P5007848 pickup was because of a pic online from Summit racing, which BTW is actually accurate of the shape....

so the confusion initially came from images & catalog confusion - both MP & online info from Summit & Jeg's so than I called Mancini because according to their website they actually sold a 402 pan & pickup kit. When I called they didn't sell it anymore & the guy informed me the closest one to the original was the P5007848, I even asked him about the 4529564 & he insisted the 500 was closer - you see how its been confusing? Have I been asking the wrong questions or listening to the wrong people - well according to you I was but my comparison pictures seem to tell a different story & thats exactly why i got both pickups was to find out the actual answer......not prove you wrong, which is what you seem to interpret it as.

Let me be clear, I've never said you were wrong, I've never insinuated you were wrong, I've only stated what info I was told & had picked up from others in a effort to solve this problem.

the only purpose of this post was to share knowledge of a direct parts comparison which others hopefully will find helpful.

I'll finish with this - Its not all about you!

Not that I want to get into a pissing contest over this but it seems you have EDITED your original post and then checked the little box to make it look like you didn't edit it ... I was going to quote the full post earlier today because I had a funny feeling this was going to happen .. but I didn't ... silly me ...

In case you forgot ... you said ...

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

Maybe you should go back and read the pages you scanned above because you will notice that it says that the P5007848 pickup is for use with the P5007848AB pan .. I am going to ASSuME P5007848AB is the REPRODUCTION 402 pan ????

Do YOU have the REPRODUCTION 402 pan or an original 402 pan ?

If you have the REPRODUCTION PAN then that is the pickup you should use based on the catalog info, but since your original post didn't say whether you had the REPRODUCTION pan or an original pan so I ANSWERED IT with the information that I had on hand, sorry but I don't have the latest catalog and if I did I still would have answered it the same way because my answer is correct for an original 402 pan. I'll ask this, if MP reproduced the 402 one might ASSuME that an original pickup for the 402 would work with it ?????

It was never about a board member till you made it about a board member ....

Quote:

What I'd thought was the correct part number I was told was incorrect by a board member but was informed by Mancini Racing differently.

My engines a 69 393 HP, windage tray, 402 pan setup.

Thanks ,Evan

I really couldn't care less, but you were given the correct info based on the way the question was asked.

Never mind that page you scanned is wrong because it says the P4529564 pickups is for a B engine with a 6qt pan, a 68-72 B engine NEVER came from the factory with a 6qt pan ... good thing it supersedes all previous catalogs ...

You can't point a finger at Summit or Jeg's ... heck or even Mancini ... they are only going off the WRONG info given to them by MP ...

check the applications on these pickups from Summit ...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4529564/Application/?prefilter=1

The P5007848 pickup states the application is for the P5007848AB pan ...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5007848/Application/?prefilter=1

The Jegs also says for the P5007848AB pan
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P5007848/10002/-1
Forget their description for the 564 pickup because the application is for 59-78 383/400 ...

Where's ZIPPY ???

But thanks for the heads up on the incorrect info in the latest MP catalog and around the internet...

Posted By: jlatessa

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 06:06 AM

The differences you see in tube sizes
may be the result of the manufacturer's decision to cut
or roll the threads.

Joe

Posted By: edp

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 06:57 AM

all I can say is wow!

I apologize to everyone else on this board for this exchange having gone this far. The intent of my comparison was only to share what I considered an interesting albeit confusing situation of parts similarities.

If my lack of experience with some of these parts allowed me to accidentally state info incorrectly my apologies again. It certainly was not to get into a ridiculous war of words & whose right or wrong.

sorry again, hopefully the value of the comparison will still be there for others who've been confused by this issue.

Posted By: rss

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 07:23 PM

Well I found this thread helpful. I decided to check on the oil pickup that I just purchased for my 383 build and figured out that I had a brain fart and ordered the RB pickup instead of the B engine pickup. Time for another parts return.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 09:17 PM

Yes there's different bends on the big block pickups and baffled/non baffled/depth pans etc but I didn't know there was a difference between B and RB in that area

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 10:00 PM

Quote:

Yes there's different bends on the big block pickups and baffled/non baffled/depth pans etc but I didn't know there was a difference between B and RB in that area

There isn't a difference between a B and RB unless the RB is a Hemi and then it's only the size of the hole drilled and tapped in the block . They list pickups by application/year, but the parts catalog is not completely accurate. That's why it's best to come onto a web forum and ask, though it's up to person asking the question how he/she will use the info gathered.

I do owe evan an apology being he is a mopar newbie. ...

But why ask a question if one isn't going to use the info, and then say you received incorrect info when you did not?

The catalog posted above clearly spells out what the application of one of the pickups in question is clearly used with and I am sure both pickups will work with either pan.

Posted By: rss

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 10:13 PM

Quote:

There isn't a difference between a B and RB unless the RB is a Hemi and then it's only the size of the hole drilled and tapped in the block .

I purchased the 4529565 which the MP catalog lists for an RB application.

Engine is 70 383 HP with windage tray.

Do I need to get the 4529564 pickup instead?

Thanks

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 10:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There isn't a difference between a B and RB unless the RB is a Hemi and then it's only the size of the hole drilled and tapped in the block .

I purchased the 4529565 which the MP catalog lists for an RB application.

Engine is 70 383 HP with windage tray.

Do I need to get the 4529564 pickup instead?

Thanks

What pan do you have ? The 565 is a straight tube and it is to be used with the 6qt HEMI pan , it will work with the 187 pan after a slight bend and/or adding a windage tray and gaskets .

If you have a 402 pan, which is what was installed on a 70 383, you need the 564 pickup.

This is where the applications in the catalog are screwed up because a 68-69 440 (RB) uses the 402 pan ... the 893 pan for the A body can use the 564 pickup I set one up with it earlier this year ..

Though the other pickup with it's thinner tube wall might be easier to bend ??? But be careful bending it, either use heat or some type of tubing bender, you don't want to break the boss off in the block.

Posted By: rss

Re: 383 / BB oil pickup confusion - 09/24/12 10:34 PM

I've got a 402 pan, so looks like I'll be ordering another.

Thanks for the help