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9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching?

Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 09:59 PM

I just discovered my VIN# stamped on the passenger side of my block just above the oil pan.It's a 70 Roadrunner (built August 1969)but my block is #2468130-12 (LL) dated 9/17/68...is there any possibility that this is the original engine or some previous owner stamping the VIN on the passenger side of the block.The stamping looks perfectly applied.I've had the car for 1 1/2 years and just noticed this today.I know production activities were "use what's around" sort of but could this possibly be it's original engine.Fender tags is as follows...

N85 N96 R11 V21 V8X 26
V1X A36 G33 J25 J45 M21
EV2 H2X9 TX9 903 046084
E63 D21 RM23 NOG ......

On the top right corner there's a "B" punched out of the tag.I'm relatively new to all this guys so if I mentioned something incorrect bare with me.If anyone has any info/advice/wisdom,whatever...please drop me a line...thanks

Dave
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 10:07 PM

Post pictures of the stampings and the tag, please.

What is stamped on the ID pad on the passenger side deck surface, this is the assembly date and model year info, the casting date is not the definitive date to use, inventory control was not that great and there could have been an issue that had that block put aside for whatever reason.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 10:23 PM

ok...pic upcoming...is it ok to put my VIN up on the site?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 10:37 PM

If you don't, I can. j/k

If you own it - there is no issue with posting the VIN; if you are chasing the car, and don't want to lose the chance to own it, don't post it.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:00 PM

...good one,and yup,I own the car..
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:23 PM

With your car being a very early built car for 1970, I can see a 69 engine in it but not a 68 engine..
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:25 PM

Engine is a re-stamp.

The punch out is an inspectors mark.

The car was built early, the Mylar month is before the scheduled production date on the fender tag.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:26 PM

Fender tag is authentic
Door sticker appears authentic
Engine VIN# has been "re-stamped" - NOT ORIGINAL
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:28 PM

Quote:

With your car being a very early built car for 1970, I can see a 69 engine in it but not a 68 engine..



The 1970 model year ran from August 1, 1969 until July 31, 1969. So this car would have had a 1969 or earlier cast block. A year or more early is fairly common.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:31 PM

Quote:

The car was built late, the Mylar month is after the scheduled production date on the fender tag.



The other way around - car scheduled for September '69 but built in August '69.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/03/12 11:32 PM

I edited it already.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 02:05 AM

So no way it's the original engine? I'm just trying to figure this all out...and yes,I'm new-ish to the car as well as the hobby.But man I love this car...
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 02:13 AM

"Re-stamped"...what does that mean? Someone simply faked a stamp of the VIN on the engine block? If that's the case someone's going to hell...I was having such a great day...
Posted By: moparjo68

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 02:21 AM

The person you bought the car from............did they advertise it as a numbers matching car???
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 02:31 AM

Quote:

"Re-stamped"...what does that mean? Someone simply faked a stamp of the VIN on the engine block? If that's the case someone's going to hell...I was having such a great day...



The factory did not stamp the full VIN on that pad in 1970 nor does the factory stamp font look like that. Someone did that to that block and they were not at the plant that assembled that car when it was done.

Whats on the ID pad up top , passenger side of the engine behind the alternator, in front of the head?
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:05 AM


These are the marks on the top of the engine on the passenger side behind the distributor.No idea what they mean aside from the obvious 383...my buddy told me it was a replacement block as the original was blown up but upon further review I ended up knowing more about the numbers on the car than he did...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:14 AM

E 383 , it's a 1969 model year engine , a REPLACEMENT engine would more than likely not be stamped with the model year , and not the year prior to the one it was installed in . It was assembled on 10/16/1968 which is right inline with it's casting date , the R tells you it was built to run on regular fuel , which means it was a 290HP 2bbl equipped 383 as originally built.

Your buddy needs to do some more studying ...
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 05:01 AM

I just crawled out from under the car and took all the numbers off the 18-spline 4spd...

Passenger side shows the following...
23113812
E3 97622
PP8332239 01 70

Drivers side shows this on a tag attached ...
C 95664 and a possible casting showing 71-8

My VIN# is RM23NOG113812...it's looking to me like someone a long time ago (not my buddy but before him) was trying to pass this car off as numbers matching?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 05:05 AM

A 383 Road runner would not have an 18 spline 4 speed , only the 23 spline with a 383 .

Go a picture of that pad also ?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 05:21 AM

Quote:

+ END
N85 N96 R11 V21 V8X -26
V1X A36 G33 J25 J45 M21
EV2 H2X9 TX9 903 046084
E63 D21 RM23 N0G 113812



Great Car!!

END = end of codes

N85 = tachometer
N96 = "AIR GRABBER" hood
R11 = AM radio
V21 = performance hood paint
V8X = deck lid stripe - black
26 = 26" radiator

V1X = vinyl top - black
A36 = "performance axle package" - 3.55s & 8-3/4"
G33 = LH remote chrome mirror
J25 = 3-spd windshield wipers
J45 = hood pins
M21 = drip trough mouldings

EV2 = body paint - "tor-red metallic"
H2X9 = high-grade vinyl bench seat interior - black
TX9 = upper door frame paint - "black velvet"
903 = scheduled production date - Wednesday, 9/3/69
046084 = vehicle order number

E63 = 383 cu.in. 4bbl engine
D21 = 4-spd manual transmission
RM23 = Road Runner 2 dr hardtop
N0G = 383 4bbl / 1970 / St. Louis MO assembly plant
113812 = VIN sequence number

A pic of my old EV2 '70 Road Runner

Attached picture 7363826-0604687-R1-E017.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 05:38 AM

Quote:

23113812
E3 97622
PP8332239 01 70



Like John suggested - Need some clarification above, but .....

RM23N0G113812 = attempt at a "re-stamp" of your VIN#

I removed my WAG

PP833 = New Process 4-spd transmission
2239 = transmission assembly date - Thursday, 9/14/67 (1968 model year)
0170 = transmission unit number
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 05:55 AM

John and Dan here is the pad on the passenger side of the car...
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 06:02 AM

Another poor attempt at a re-stamp.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 06:24 AM

Here's the tag on the drivers side...man I was having such a good day,thinking maybe,possibly that I might have something a little special.Don't get me wrong,I love my car...but it would have been pretty cool all things considered...

Boy if I could get my hands on that guy...oh well it's still a pretty darn nice 383 70 RR with an 18-spline 4spd and a Dana-60...have to look on the positive side...thanks guys for hanging in there and helping a new guy out.Very much appreciated !

Dave
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 06:31 AM

All the casting numbers are typical of PP833 4-speed transmissions. Do you know for a fact that it is 18-spline? Are there dual mounts for a shifter on the tailshaft?
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 07:12 AM

Dan do you mean like the B/E tail shaft? One spot forward for the B shifter and one aft for the E ? I don't think it does but I had the tranny out when I bought it and had it re-built.The guy who re-built it commented on it being an 18-spline unit.Once again I show my novice knowledge...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 01:58 PM

Quote:

Another poor attempt at a re-stamp.



What he said . The casting number on the shift cover is meaningless for the most part , every single 4 speed has that same cover and same number , other than the date being changed daily.

Also you car would not have had a Dana 60 from the factory .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 02:00 PM

Quote:

Dan do you mean like the B/E tail shaft? One spot forward for the B shifter and one aft for the E ? I don't think it does but I had the tranny out when I bought it and had it re-built.The guy who re-built it commented on it being an 18-spline unit.Once again I show my novice knowledge...



Yes the forward and rear mount points. If it doesn't have one then it would have a 69 trans crossmember installed because the trans mount point was moved for the 70 model year .
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:01 PM

I believe it's a 67 4spd unit.I can't believe someone would go to that extent to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] someone into thinking it is or may be a numbers matching car.Not that I was told it was in the first place but after seeing these stamps someone was definitely trying to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] someone...I still love this 70 at any rate and again guys I really appreciate all your help.This site has been a ton of help for me ever since I bought this car...cheers

Dave
Posted By: formula_s

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:14 PM

Quote:

So no way it's the original engine? I'm just trying to figure this all out...and yes,I'm new-ish to the car as well as the hobby.But man I love this car...




As you get older you'll learn never to 'love' something that can't love you back.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:15 PM

Quote:

I believe it's a 67 4spd unit.I can't believe someone would go to that extent to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] someone into thinking it is or may be a numbers matching car.Not that I was told it was in the first place but after seeing these stamps someone was definitely trying to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] someone...I still love this 70 at any rate and again guys I really appreciate all your help.This site has been a ton of help for me ever since I bought this car...cheers

Dave



68 , that ID pad is not present till the 68 model year .

Money makes people do stupid things.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*

Re: 9/17/68 383 block in 70 Roadrunner...#s matching? - 09/04/12 04:22 PM

"As you get older you'll learn never to 'love' something that can't love you back."...I'm 46 and I think I've got that one figured out just fine...it's a figure of speach...I still love that car...

and John 68 it is...thanks for your help!
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