Moparts

holley carb ??

Posted By: Dakota_Don

holley carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:07 PM

the carb in question is a 770 avenger vac secondaries.

the engine is a SB 410 cid, xe274h hyd flat tappet cam 4in stroke and 4.04 bore

ported 2.02 and 1.60 valves cast iron heads eddy rpm air gap intake.. long headers.. auto 904 in a dakota with 355 gears



the carb has 72 jets, and what looks like a 8.5 pwr valve.



the truck idles like crap.. its rich and plugs are blk. and my eyes burn.

i have approx 14-16 in vac..



now do i need a pwr valve that has a lower in number?



and are the jets a good starting place? or should i change them while its apart?



float level? should the float be level when looking at the back side of the bowl? where is a good place to set the leval at since its apart?



and the idle mix screws. 1.5 turns a good starting point as well?



any other tips or suggestions while its apart?



any one use percys adjust a jet?
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:21 PM

Initial timing will play a BIG part in how the engine idles. I'd make sure it has at least 16* initial on it before messing with anything in the carb. Lots of "carb" issuers aren't really rooted in the carb.

It's got pretty good idle vacuum.

Do all the basics, float level would be one area to check, just wetting the bottom of sight plug hole. Secondaries too far closed, primaries too far open, getting too far into the transfer slot.
Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:29 PM

i have it set at 16 a the moment.. forgot to mention that
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:45 PM

Should idle pretty easily at 900-950 if set correctly.
Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:47 PM

it doesnt.. and burns my eyes.. and plugs come out black.. and thats after a 20 min run or soo
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 07:51 PM

Float level would be my first check.

Is there fuel dripping from the boosters?

If you can screw the idle mix screws in all the way and it doesn't die, it's getting fuel from another source than the idle slot.

Set the idle mix screws using a vacuum gauge. Highest vac at leanest setting.

I'm a put as much initial on it as it will handle type. It may want more than 16.

That's not a big cam for a stroker.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 08:40 PM

What Rob said. float level, waterlogged float, psi too high, bad needle/seat or maybe its O ring. Screw the on the side of the metering block mixture screws in & if it doesn't die the power valve is likely blown. Either case check the PV gasket (torn or wrong one) EDIT check the float thru its' range of travel and the tang that contacts the needle
Posted By: dogdays

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/01/12 11:46 PM

First of all, what if the List number of your carb?
80770 or 90770?
Street or Truck Avenger?

Burning eyes means the carb is supplying too much fuel. At idle your main jets should not be involved with the fuel supply at all. Also, your jets should be very close to right on. I agree with the others that you have another problem.
First thing I'd suggest is to take out your needle and seat assemblies and make sure they are working properly. Then carefully set the float level.
At this point you may try to measure fuel line pressure as if it is too high it'll overpower the float and you'll have fuel injection!
The Avenger carbs have power valve protection built in, but try the old trick of turning in the idle mixture screws all the way at idle and seeing if it dies or not. Don't go overboard, just a light finger tight should do it. If the truck doesn't die, change out the power valve. I'd suggest something around a 6.5 or lower.

Go to Holley.com and find the Avenger instructions, there you will find what jets come stock in the carbs, also the power valves.

I hope that when you get the float and fuel pressure setting right, your problem will go away. But if it doesn't, perhaps there is a piece of dirt in the idle air bleed(s). Time to clean out all the passages with a good blast of carb cleaner.

I love my 570 Street Avenger and will be putting a 770 Street Avenger on my 400-inch $500 ford truck. I wish you luck sorting yours out.

R.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 05:16 AM

One other thing is to make sure the idle blade and secondary blad adjustments are right.

I recently found that my carbs adjustment blades were way out of sorts, causing a similar issue and needed to be set right before it would go right.

Also the air/fuel screws should be out 1-1 1/4 turns on each side.

mike
Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 05:51 AM

Quote:

First of all, what if the List number of your carb?
80770 or 90770?
Street or Truck Avenger?

street,

Burning eyes means the carb is supplying too much fuel. At idle your main jets should not be involved with the fuel supply at all. Also, your jets should be very close to right on. I agree with the others that you have another problem.
First thing I'd suggest is to take out your needle and seat assemblies and make sure they are working properly. Then carefully set the float level.
At this point you may try to measure fuel line pressure as if it is too high it'll overpower the float and you'll have fuel injection!
The Avenger carbs have power valve protection built in, but try the old trick of turning in the idle mixture screws all the way at idle and seeing if it dies or not. Don't go overboard, just a light finger tight should do it. If the truck doesn't die, change out the power valve. I'd suggest something around a 6.5 or lower.

Go to Holley.com and find the Avenger instructions, there you will find what jets come stock in the carbs, also the power valves.

I hope that when you get the float and fuel pressure setting right, your problem will go away. But if it doesn't, perhaps there is a piece of dirt in the idle air bleed(s). Time to clean out all the passages with a good blast of carb cleaner.

I love my 570 Street Avenger and will be putting a 770 Street Avenger on my 400-inch $500 ford truck. I wish you luck sorting yours out.

R.


Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 05:55 AM

Quote:

First of all, what if the List number of your carb?
80770 or 90770?
Street or Truck Avenger?

Burning eyes means the carb is supplying too much fuel. At idle your main jets should not be involved with the fuel supply at all. Also, your jets should be very close to right on. I agree with the others that you have another problem.
First thing I'd suggest is to take out your needle and seat assemblies and make sure they are working properly. Then carefully set the float level.
At this point you may try to measure fuel line pressure as if it is too high it'll overpower the float and you'll have fuel injection!
The Avenger carbs have power valve protection built in, but try the old trick of turning in the idle mixture screws all the way at idle and seeing if it dies or not. Don't go overboard, just a light finger tight should do it. If the truck doesn't die, change out the power valve. I'd suggest something around a 6.5 or lower.

Go to Holley.com and find the Avenger instructions, there you will find what jets come stock in the carbs, also the power valves.

I hope that when you get the float and fuel pressure setting right, your problem will go away. But if it doesn't, perhaps there is a piece of dirt in the idle air bleed(s). Time to clean out all the passages with a good blast of carb cleaner.

I love my 570 Street Avenger and will be putting a 770 Street Avenger on my 400-inch $500 ford truck. I wish you luck sorting yours out.

R.





thats kinda why i took it apart is to clean it in case its dirty.. it has a new stock small block pump.. approx 5-6 psi.. and i can screw in the mix screws and it will still run.. im looking for dirt,cracks or bad pwr valve.. so gotta be something simple..
Posted By: radar

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 03:57 PM

The idle screws only control how much fuel mixture comes out of the idle ports, the t-slot should only show a square hole below the blades at idle. If your curb idle screw is in too far it will run on the t-slot and the screws won't do much. The power valve should not figure into this at all. No gas should be visible coming out of the boosters.

I have had holleys that wanted .75 turns out on the idle screws to burn clean. This is a can of worms- good luck.
Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 11:02 PM

called holley today, to start it had the wrong power valve.. so im gonna clean it, install new parts .. set it at original settings and start from there..
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/02/12 11:41 PM

Quote:

called holley today, to start it had the wrong power valve.. so im gonna clean it, install new parts .. set it at original settings and start from there..




What a waste of time holley tech is. Doesn't matter if it's got a 2.5 or a 10.5 power valve, you've got 14 inches of vacuum.
Posted By: mopar_leaner

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/03/12 02:57 AM

also make sure you have a New fuel filter, because the smallest particle can cause the needle and seat to stick open and with the air cleaner off and the engine idling, you should see raw fuel drizzling off the boosters.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/03/12 04:18 AM

Quote:

also make sure you have a New fuel filter, because the smallest particle can cause the needle and seat to stick open and with the air cleaner off and the engine idling, you should see raw fuel drizzling off the boosters.




You sure about that or did you mean he "should not"...
Posted By: fishy68

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/03/12 04:46 AM

Don I have a 408 that is similar to yours (just a tad larger cam) and at first I had a 770 Avenger on it and it ran real good but I did have to jet it up 2 sizes in front and 5 in the rear. As Rob said Holley's tech lacks a lot to be desired. I'd like to know why they said you had the wrong power valve in it cause if you've got 14 inches of vacuum that's plenty to hold a 8.5 PV shut. IMO the 8.5 is just about perfect for it. I'm only about 35 miles from you so if you have trouble getting it worked out let me know and I can take a spin down and have a look. Just PM me for my ph. # and we'll get hooked up.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/03/12 05:11 AM

My guess.

Idle is high, mechanical timing is bleeding in, won't idle in gear because it pulls that timing out at lower idle speed. i bet it drops a big amount in gear, 250+ rpm?

I'd put a timing light on it, see where initial lies in gear. Or turn the idle down to 850 and see where it is. If it drops any, you need to reset it. Advance the timing some and see if the idle can be turned down. It's in the transfer slots and you MUST have control of mixture via the metering block screws. If not, you're DONE! Until you get it out of the transfer slots, it will never stop gassing out the neighborhood.

That engine should idle easily at 800 rpm if you wanted it that low. I'd set it around 900 rpm with plenty of initial timing. 16 is a good start, might want more.

As far as the power valve goes, two PV gaskets have caused issues before.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: holey carb ?? - 08/03/12 05:12 AM

Quote:

The idle screws only control how much fuel mixture comes out of the idle ports, the t-slot should only show a square hole below the blades at idle. If your curb idle screw is in too far it will run on the t-slot and the screws won't do much. The power valve should not figure into this at all. No gas should be visible coming out of the boosters.

I have had holleys that wanted .75 turns out on the idle screws to burn clean. This is a can of worms- good luck.



+1 said better then i could, plus Rob is right, holley tech is for [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean].

mike
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