Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands

Posted By: bobs66440

Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 04:36 PM

After break-in and for a few hundred miles on my new engine (my own build), it was completely dry. Not a drop on the floor! I was so happy. Now it's starting to leave quarter to half-dollar sized spots on the floor. I just don't understand why it would change suddenly.

I'm pretty sure it's coming from the rear main as it's pretty wet inside the bell housing. It looks like the oil is getting flung around inside and then dripping down the sides.

I spent SO much time and care to get the rear main just right when I built the engine because I HATE oil leaks, and I heard how difficult it is to get one to not leak. The really frustrating thing is, the old engine I pulled out didn't leak at all, but it burned a quart in 200 miles...

Is there anyone with a dry engine??

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 04:42 PM

Troy was battling rear main seal issues that he solved. I know someone else that was having the same problem and solved his the same way too. Both were aftermarket stroker cranks. Read here:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 04:43 PM

Me, so far so good. Bult the engine myself in 2005 and no leaks yet. Don't have alot mile though, maybe 1000.
What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

My 340 don't leak either...

All factory stuff used on my rebuilds.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 04:50 PM

Quote:

All factory stuff used on my rebuilds.

Including rope seals on the rear main ?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 04:52 PM

Yes

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 05:10 PM

Is the tool for setting the seal still available ?

Posted By: HemiRick

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 05:20 PM

There's no oil on the concrete where my 451 lives, built in 06 and not many miles a thousand or 2 at most. Used the rubber rear seal that comes in a Felpro gasket set.

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 05:43 PM

Quote:

What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

.

It's a factory steel crank and 440Source main cap. I read through all the posts regarding this from the past (including all the warnings, etc) and double/triple checked everything to death. As I said, it was totally dry, and I thought I had it beat, but now it's leaking.

It also appears to be seeping a little from the head gasket (Cometic MLS) on the driver's side. I spoke to their tech line and they said to try to re-torque the head.

Posted By: 1969RR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 06:12 PM

Just went through the same issues. Built 512 stroker with 440Source kit, Mancini retainer. Replaced the rear main twice after the build due to bad leak at the right rear area. Ended up being the oil pan! New pan that would "rock" on a flat surface. Could even see light from under pan. (put a flashlight under pan on flat surface). Spent about an hour with a board, hammer & dolley to get flat again! So far - so good! Seems like everyone I talk to that has a Mopar has trouble getting the engine to seal! Sometimes ya just gotta be lucky! Jeff

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

.

It's a factory steel crank and 440Source main cap. I read through all the posts regarding this from the past (including all the warnings, etc) and double/triple checked everything to death. As I said, it was totally dry, and I thought I had it beat, but now it's leaking. It also appears to be seeping a little from the head gasket (Cometic MLS) on the driver's side. I spoke to their tech line and they said to try to re-torque the head.

Oil from the head should NOT be in the bellhousing but stranger things have happened. I'd be looking at the main seal first.

It's also interesting that you have oil leaking from a wedge head , the only place oil passes thru the headgasket is for the oil to the rockers and that would leak back into the valley ???? Are you sure it's not the valve cover leaking or your intake valley pan ?

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 06:42 PM

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 06:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

.

It's a factory steel crank and 440Source main cap. I read through all the posts regarding this from the past (including all the warnings, etc) and double/triple checked everything to death. As I said, it was totally dry, and I thought I had it beat, but now it's leaking. It also appears to be seeping a little from the head gasket (Cometic MLS) on the driver's side. I spoke to their tech line and they said to try to re-torque the head.

Oil from the head should NOT be in the bellhousing but stranger things have happened. I'd be looking at the main seal first.

I know the main leak isn't coming from the head. I just added that as an additional complaint (I know I'm whiny lol). I checked really good all around the valve cover and it's completely dry. Also checked the intake pan gasket and the oil pressure sending unit. It's definitely coming from the head gasket unfortunately. I did a search and it seems it's not that uncommon with the Cometics.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

.

It's a factory steel crank and 440Source main cap. I read through all the posts regarding this from the past (including all the warnings, etc) and double/triple checked everything to death. As I said, it was totally dry, and I thought I had it beat, but now it's leaking. It also appears to be seeping a little from the head gasket (Cometic MLS) on the driver's side. I spoke to their tech line and they said to try to re-torque the head.

Oil from the head should NOT be in the bellhousing but stranger things have happened. I'd be looking at the main seal first.

I know the main leak isn't coming from the head. I just added that as an additional complaint (I know I'm whiny lol). I checked really good all around the valve cover and it's completely dry. Also checked the intake pan gasket and the oil pressure sending unit. It's definitely coming from the head gasket unfortunately. I did a search and it seems it's not that uncommon with the Cometics.

If it were a Hemi I could see it because there are oil drainbacks on the bottom corners.

Ok the stupid question , why did you use cometics on that engine ?

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 08:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What kind of crank and retainer are you using?

.

It's a factory steel crank and 440Source main cap. I read through all the posts regarding this from the past (including all the warnings, etc) and double/triple checked everything to death. As I said, it was totally dry, and I thought I had it beat, but now it's leaking. It also appears to be seeping a little from the head gasket (Cometic MLS) on the driver's side. I spoke to their tech line and they said to try to re-torque the head.

Oil from the head should NOT be in the bellhousing but stranger things have happened. I'd be looking at the main seal first.

I know the main leak isn't coming from the head. I just added that as an additional complaint (I know I'm whiny lol). I checked really good all around the valve cover and it's completely dry. Also checked the intake pan gasket and the oil pressure sending unit. It's definitely coming from the head gasket unfortunately. I did a search and it seems it's not that uncommon with the Cometics.

If it were a Hemi I could see it because there are oil drainbacks on the bottom corners.

Ok the stupid question , why did you use cometics on that engine ?

Because they offered the thinnest gasket (.027" compressed) I needed for my build to get the compression ratio close to what I wanted. They work (supposedly) well with the aluminum heads and a bonus is they don't need to be re-torqued. Of course this situation may shoot that theory down...

Re-torquing the head would involve raising the engine a few inches to get the header off. Not a project I really want to tackle right now...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 09:07 PM

With that in mind and the origin of this engine if it truly is leaking past the head gasket you may not get it to stop , Cometics require a certain surface finish on both the head and the block to seal properly , following your build up I don't think I saw this taken into account? Did you put some type of spray sealer on the gasket?

If Cometic says to retorque then you're going to have to bite the bullet and do it .

Posted By: 383man

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 09:23 PM

No oil leaks at all with my 493.

My old 440 did drip a little at the rear main after a while. This eng I used the Hughes crank seal retainer and I have no leaks anywhere. Ron

Posted By: hemi71x

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 09:52 PM

My Hemi and 440 were always dry, when i owned them.

Attached picture 7300916-raiseyourhand.jpg

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 10:25 PM

"Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands"

448" in the Barracuda

and
440" in the Charger

No leaks anywhere

Then again some think I have an unfair advantage

What did you use to lubricate the crank & seal with?

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:00 PM

Dry spell here, just a little sweat on the sides of which I clean up every now and then.

Posted By: rth

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:07 PM

I get some seepage from oil pan gaskets. My rebuilt p/s pump also weeps from can.

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:15 PM

Quote:

"Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands"

448" in the Barracuda
and
440" in the Charger

No leaks anywhere Then again some think I have an unfair advantage

What did you use to lubricate the crank & seal with?

I used standard red grease, Valvoline or similar I think.

Posted By: bboogieart

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:26 PM

none of my big blocks have leaked in years.
Haven't run in years either.

Show of hand(?)

Attached picture 7301022-thumbsupa.JPG

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:27 PM

Quote:

With that in mind and the origin of this engine if it truly is leaking past the head gasket you may not get it to stop , Cometics require a certain surface finish on both the head and the block to seal properly , following your build up I don't think I saw this taken into account? Did you put some type of spray sealer on the gasket?

If Cometic says to retorque then you're going to have to bite the bullet and do it .

I didn't use any sealer as per their instructions. The Cometics require a very fine grit finish to seal (50 Ra or finer). The Stealth heads were as they come new. I looked into it at the time and I remember their finish being compatible.The block was very smooth. Not sure of the Ra but it was what I would estimate a finish after sanding with 1000 grit or so. Definitely smoother than the heads.

Posted By: kidmopar

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/20/12 11:40 PM

1970 440 Sixpack 200 miles = NO LEAKS!
1971 383 Challenger 118k NEVER been out of car! = few drippy-drops

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 02:33 AM

And now that I did that, I just jinxed myself and everything will start leaking like a sieve tomorrow.

Posted By: ScatPackNick

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 04:25 AM

No leaks on my 440, had it since 2000

Posted By: 72ls5fla

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 12:18 PM

rebuilt engin with 1200 miles .... no drips anywhere...

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 12:26 PM

Two,finished bird in 92,never leaked a drop,wagon a year ago,800 miles,same thing.Used O.E.M.seal's in both,use the correct stuff,do it right and you should not have a problem.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 02:59 PM

mine does leak after a year and a half..of course now that I said it there will be a big mess next time out.

Posted By: racer_amx

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 04:17 PM

No problems with my 440 so far

Posted By: Dabee

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 04:29 PM

I have three of them with no leaks two 496 and a 511.

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands"

448" in the Barracuda
and
440" in the Charger

No leaks anywhere Then again some think I have an unfair advantage

What did you use to lubricate the crank & seal with?

I used standard red grease, Valvoline or similar I think.

I can't say if that was your problem or not without inspecting the seal. However, I use and recommend Clevite Bearing Guard, Torco, Redline or equivalent liberally on the seal and crank.

My motto; Treat the seal as if it were a bearing.

It actually takes a long time for oil to migrate back to the rear seal area. Without plenty of lube it can cause a dry running condition that can damage the seal lip.

There are many areas that can also leak. Such as the base of the seal retainer not fitting properly on the block, retainer side seals, improper alignment of the two seal halves and I've seen the rear cam plugs weep oil that also look like a rear seal leak.

Hope you're able to track down exactly what the cause is

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 07:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands"

448" in the Barracuda
and
440" in the Charger

No leaks anywhere Then again some think I have an unfair advantage

What did you use to lubricate the crank & seal with?

I used standard red grease, Valvoline or similar I think.

I can't say if that was your problem or not without inspecting the seal. However, I use and recommend Clevite Bearing Guard, Torco, Redline or equivalent liberally on the seal and crank.

My motto; Treat the seal as if it were a bearing.

It actually takes a long time for oil to migrate back to the rear seal area. Without plenty of lube it can cause a dry running condition that can damage the seal lip.

There are many areas that can also leak. Such as the base of the seal retainer not fitting properly on the block, retainer side seals, improper alignment of the two seal halves and I've seen the rear cam plugs weep oil that also look like a rear seal leak.

Hope you're able to track down exactly what the cause is

I never thought of the cam plug. It's odd because after I shut it off and it sits a while, there's really no oil dripping from the rear main area. It's all up inside the bell housing and eventually drips down the sides. I just assumed that it's coming out of the rear seal and getting flung around. Now that I think of it, I've had a few rear mains leak and they have always dripped from the rear main area. I'll have to look closer. Thanks.

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 07:37 PM

My first 440 leaked from the bellhousing area. I pulled the pan twice to replace the rear seal and side seals. I later found the problem to be the rear oil gallery plugs. They weren't tight enough!

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 08:06 PM

Oil pressure sender is EZ to check.

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/21/12 10:19 PM

Quote:

My first 440 leaked from the bellhousing area. I pulled the pan twice to replace the rear seal and side seals. I later found the problem to be the rear oil gallery plugs. They weren't tight enough!

That's a good thought also. The more I think about it, it almost seems like it needs to be coming from the top to get flung around by the flywheel like that.

Posted By: jcastle1

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 07/22/12 02:32 AM

I really don't consider them to be leaks.
I think it's just "sweat" from all that horsepower!

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/06/12 05:37 PM

Just an update.

It turns out that the leak is coming from the front of the trans (A-833) Probably from the front bearing retainer. While I'm glad it's not the engine, it's a leak nonetheless and I HATE leaks.

The ironic thing is that I just had the previously non-leaking trans rebuilt ($800) due to shifting problems, and it turned out to be the shifter instead (my fault). So I spent $800 for an oil leak!

I can take it back and he would probably fix it no charge, but it's running and driving so good that I'm afraid to let him screw around with it...and I don't want to pull it myself...

It looks like the fill hole is about even with the bottom of the retainer, which would explain why it leaks only when it's running and not while its sitting. The oil is probably splashing up and out. I wonder if it will slow down once the level gets down a little. But I don't want to run it low on fluid...crap.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/06/12 08:10 PM

Bob the oil is flying everywhere when it's running so the only way the oil will be below the retainer is at rest with the engine not running.

Another leak point is the cluster gear pin. My 833 leaks there but I used the pin for an OD trans which is shorter than the NON od 833 . I cleaned it and filled the cavity with RTV, when I can I will pull it back apart and put in the right pin, with some type of sealer in the hole first.

Posted By: bobs66440

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/07/12 11:36 AM

Thanks John. I suppose the right way to do it is yank it back out. I knew that I guess. No magic bullet...I'm just terrified of letting someone tear it apart. Oh well, it is what it is.

Posted By: Commando1

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/07/12 01:27 PM

Quote:

Is there anyone with a dry engine??

Bueller?
Bueller..?
Bueller....?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/07/12 02:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is there anyone with a dry engine??

Bueller?
Bueller..?
Bueller....?

Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/07/12 06:02 PM

Quote:

"Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands"

448" in the Barracuda
and
440" in the Charger

No leaks anywhere Then again some think I have an unfair advantage

What did you use to lubricate the crank & seal with?

Not sure about a "unfair advantage" but your gaskets are the reason my 440 does NOT leak!!

Posted By: 71charger

Re: Who Has a Big Block That DOESN'T Leak, Show of Hands - 09/07/12 06:21 PM

I put my .030-over 400 together in '94 and it's still tight.