Moparts
Trouble with Edelbrock
Posted By: moparjo68
Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 07:39 PM
Hi. I have a rebuilt 383 w/ a mild cam, stock 4 bbl intake and a 650 edelbrock carb w/electric choke. The carb has to be primed each and every time after sitting overnite or I just crank for 30 plus seconds. Once started, the motor will idle beautiful. No problems with warm up. DOES NOT TRY TO DIE when put in drive. No flat spots on exceleration. But when operated for 30 minutes or more, the motor starts to spit, splutter, and try to choke out only at low idle. Turn off motor, smell raw fuel. When I restart, motor does not want to start. (Electric choke is wide open. No problems w/choke) Have to press gas pedal half way to floor to finally get to start and I have to keep foot on gas pedal to keep motor running. Motor acts like its running on 4 cylinders. Read on Moparts about gas percolating in carb so I bought a half inch phelonic spacer. No change. So I bought a one inch spacer. No change. Tore carb apart. Checked float levels. They are perfect to factory specs. About ready to throw this EDELBROCK carb in garbage.
I once rebuilt a GM 400 and put a Carter AFB straight out of box. Had NOT ONE OUNCE of problems with the Carter. Tried to purchase a Carter AFB once again before purchasing Edelbrock I currently have but sadly found out I couldn't purchase Carter AFB's new anymore. Would love to hear from someone who has had similar problems and what carb did they change to to finally eliminate problems as I have mentioned. If changing back to Carter would eliminate this problem, I would search for a good used AFB or one to rebuild. Please help! Thanks, Joe
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 07:44 PM
Your problem is in the fuel delivery system, NOT the carburetor!
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 07:48 PM
Please explain? I have a mechanical fuel pump. Whats wrong with it?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 07:50 PM
Your vapor locking when it get's hot, is there a filter before the fuel pump? And is a clean sock/strainer installed in the fuel tank on the end of the pickup?
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 07:56 PM
The filter is new and its located before the fuel pump. The filter sock is new as well. Just replaced the fuel sending unit.
Posted By: Rug_Trucker
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:22 PM
Gotta love that ethanol!
Didn't get any bad gas did you?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:24 PM
Get rid of the filter before the pump it doesn't go there, it goes after the pump. The new sock in the tank is all that's needed and it's the way our cars came new. The 10 micron filter your using makes it really hard to suck gasoline through and can't be done when it get's hot.
And to the guys who say "I've been doing it for years", well it's wrong and todays gas can't tolorate it near as well as the old gas or racing gas.
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:30 PM
I had fuel filter in factory location at one time. Problem existed then as now. Someone wrote on board that your problem was fuel filter needs to be behind fuel pump. So I moved it to present location. No change.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:36 PM
Well I can promise you the filter will be much more useful to you after the pump.
I think you should try it without and get back to us. I'm also postive it can't go there, no way will it work.
Also I think you should jet it up one step too and make sure it's not building heat from being lean.
How's the motor run? If it is lean, it will get the motor hot and affect fuel pump performance. Or it could be timing...
Posted By: rapom
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:40 PM
I had the same problem but not as serious as yours. I run a edelbrock 800 carb. I put a carter electric (the low pressure one that don't need a regulator) pump back at the gas tank and isolated it real well so I can't hear it. Completely solved the problem for the most part. Primes the carb before startup when the engine is hot. No more long cranking times.
I was running out of gas on a fuel throttle blast when the car was hot. Bypassed the mechanical pump and solved the problem. I'm thinking that the Mechanical pump actually heated up the fuel and made it more prone to vapor locking.
I did have a filter just before the mechanical pump so that may have exsaperated the problem also.
Posted By: lewtot184
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:42 PM
Quote:
I had fuel filter in factory location at one time. Problem existed then as now. Someone wrote on board that your problem was fuel filter needs to be behind fuel pump. So I moved it to present location. No change.
never put a filter (unless its a high micron screen) on the suction side of a pump.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 08:44 PM
Above idle see if the boosters are dripping. Mine are with a stock 318 mech pump. May need a regulator. come payday I'm getting a holley low psi one for my 1406 Eddy.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 09:07 PM
Quote:
I had the same problem but not as serious as yours. I run a edelbrock 800 carb. I put a carter electric (the low pressure one that don't need a regulator) pump back at the gas tank and isolated it real well so I can't hear it. Completely solved the problem for the most part. Primes the carb before startup when the engine is hot. No more long cranking times.
I was running out of gas on a fuel throttle blast when the car was hot. Bypassed the mechanical pump and solved the problem. I'm thinking that the Mechanical pump actually heated up the fuel and made it more prone to vapor locking.
I did have a filter just before the mechanical pump so that may have exsaperated the problem also.
FOR SURE!
No doubt a properly pumbed electric pump is better at pumping todays gas, But it's not any better at sucking it because gas is very hard to suck, always has been.
So it's tough to get a good delivery volume and gravity in your favor out of a stock tank for a electric, imo.
Now a stock pump can still work with todays gas, but now the motor tune has to be right on so it don't run hot.
And it has to be setup right with no leaks and a properly vented gas tank. I'm guessing that is a problem too, all too often that the fuel pump get's blamed for.
Lastly I do have to admit that both my cars use mechanical pumps with hemi vapor separators with return line through the sending unit. I have burned alot of pump gas all over the country in real hi temps and real high altitudes and have never been let down.
2 weeks ago I was driving my 340 at near wide open throttle for like 3 miles at a time at 120 mph in 85 deree temps at 4600 feet. It never ran out of fuel and I ran the same car at bonneville a couple years ago, even more miles on a 95 degree day with no fuel delivery problems or cooling...at 120 mph.
web page
That's salt and it's everywhere underneath!
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/01/12 11:55 PM
Has anyone had these symptoms as I described with their Edelbrock and managed to keep the factory mechanical fuel pump set up and just swap out for a different brand carburetor.................and it cured the problem?????????????????????
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 03:42 AM
Anyone??????????
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 04:14 AM
Sorry man, the new gas is crap. I have dual Carter AFB's on my Hemi and they do the same thing. An electric pusher pump will solve the problem. The fuel is percolating.
Sheldon
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 05:16 AM
Did you check to see if the boosters are spitting at idle like RapidRobert suggested?
Also, I would check the fuel pressure to make sure it's not too high (nothing above 5.5psi EVER).
When it's hot, turn it off, remove the air cleaner and look down the throats. If you see fuel pushing past anything, you have an issue somewhere.
Allegedly Holleys are slightly better in the heat soak department since the bowls are insulated with gaskets from the main body, but then you would have a holley
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 05:44 AM
Quote:
Above idle see if the boosters are dripping. Mine are with a stock 318 mech pump. May need a regulator. come payday I'm getting a holley low psi one for my 1406 Eddy.
I don't know what you mean by the boosters. Also, what did you mean by getting a holley low psi for your 1406 Eddy? Do you mean in exchange for?
Posted By: moparcyco
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 06:25 AM
Quote:
Hi. I have a rebuilt 383 w/ a mild cam, stock 4 bbl intake and a 650 edelbrock carb w/electric choke.
Is that a 600 edelbrock or a 750?Dont think they have a 650.If it is a 750 throw that POS in the trash.600 will work fine same with an 800.This is not an edelbrock bashing,I have used 600 and 800's with great results.I had a 750 on a hot 360 had every problem you've described and then some.Started doing some reasearch and come to find out these carbs are CRAP.I would borrow another carb if you can and see if your problem goes away.If not fuel system somewhere 
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 06:37 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Above idle see if the boosters are dripping. Mine are with a stock 318 mech pump. May need a regulator. come payday I'm getting a holley low psi one for my 1406 Eddy.
I don't know what you mean by the boosters. Also, what did you mean by getting a holley low psi for your 1406 Eddy? Do you mean in exchange for?
The boosters are the the round things in the center of each barrel in the carb. In the first five seconds here, you can see them spitting fuel out (hope Cal doesn't mind if I link to his video 
)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ucCl8KXoU&feature=relmfu
RR is probably talking about getting a holley fuel pressure regulator.
Quote:
Anyone??????????
sounds like it is perking the gas and vapor locking when hot.
when you drive it 30 mins. does the carb get hot to the touch?
when it sits over night it can and will drain back to the tank sucking most of the gas from the fuel bowl. (they are know to crack and leak also) the exessive cranking is the fuel pump primeing and filling the fuel bowl back up,then she fires and runs great till it gets hot.
when you shut it down hot it will perk the gas out of the carb and flood it,then you have to hold the throttle open for it to fire and clear the cyls.
does it have an alum intake?
does it have some kind of heat dissapator under the carb?
does it have the heat cross over blocked?
some cures would be to...
check float level.
check fuel pressure.
check air/fuel ratio with a vac gauge and set curb idle and timeing.
add a carb spacer (eddiebroke suggest the 3/8" fiber base gasket they sell.)
block heat cross over on intake if it is alum or cast iron,let the electic choke do its job.
and what everyone else said too.
almost all of the eddie carbs I have used had this problem till I fixed it with these mods to keep it cool.
I found that the 4-hole stacked heat dissaptor works the best with the eddie carbs. i use 2-1/2" kits for a 1" 4-hole carb base spacer.
it is thin alum plates stacked with gaskets inbetween the alum plates. works awsome and adds a little low end torque with the 1" 4-hole spacer.
i drive 50 miles and cant touch the intake more than 2 sec but the carb stays luke warm 
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 05:00 PM
Are you running straight 'pump' fuel???
Posted By: moparjo68
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 06:50 PM
Is that a 600 edelbrock or a 750?Dont think they have a 650.If it is a 750 throw that POS in the trash.600 will work fine same with an 800.This is not an edelbrock bashing,I have used 600 and 800's with great results.I had a 750 on a hot 360 had every problem you've described and then some.Started doing some reasearch and come to find out these carbs are CRAP.I would borrow another carb if you can and see if your problem goes away.If not fuel system somewhere
You are right. Its a 1406 which is the 600 cfm model, NOT A 650 which doesn't exist. If I had another carb to try, I would do that. But I don't. I am using a 1 inch spacer between carb and stock steel intake manifold to try and eliminate gas perking. I can't go much higher. The air cleaner will be hitting against the hood.
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/02/12 07:09 PM
Bull-shi-ite...
Who's your 'research' source???
I've got a 'crap' 750 on a 1/2 inch spacer over an aluminum M-1...
Been on there a lot of years...
And in some EXTREME heat...
No issues...
Quote:
Bull-shi-ite...
Who's your 'research' source???
I've got a 'crap' 750 on a 1/2 inch spacer over an aluminum M-1...
Been on there a lot of years...
And in some EXTREME heat...
No issues...
it has been said that early 750 carbs had casting flaws that made them a POS,supposed to have fixed it a few yrs later... I think this is why you have ya and nay sayers on the 750 carbs.
I know good ones are out there,I have seen them,I just never got a good one.
Posted By: feets
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/03/12 04:13 AM
Drive the car. Get it hot enough to cause the hard start problem then let it sit. Once it's had a good heat soak, pull the air cleaner. Do not try to start it. Look down the throat of the carb and pump the throttle. If you see a strong stream of fuel coming out of the accelerator pump then you do not have a problem with the fuel leaving the carb.
If it's a weak stream or won't squirt the same strength 3 or 4 times then you do have a problem with fuel boiling out of the carb.
I don't know how someone can suck fuel from the carb back into the tank. The inlet is at the top of the carb. If there's enough draw to pull fuel across the air in the top of the bowls and into the fuel line, it would have enough suction to cram the needles into the seats. That would cork the hole and prevent any fuel drain back. You also run into the fact that the bowls are vented to the atmosphere and the fuel line "suction" would draw air through the vents and never pull fuel from the bowls.
your right,now i think about it,it was the weep hole on the fuel pump that leaked and would drain the fuel line and filter,then had to reprime with a long cranking till it fired.
my carb would perk/evap the fuel till it only had 1/2 a squirt when it heat soaked a while.
two different things,I said them wrong.
Posted By: MY340
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/05/12 12:30 AM
750cfm 1407 Eddie on my Duster 360 started and ran great but it wasn't great on fuel economy but made very good power on my midly built 360. I used a 1" 4 hole spacer and a manual choke for cooler weather starts. Hot weather starts were never a problem and I used 93 octane premium gas with 10% ethanol.
Posted By: Exit1965
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/05/12 01:43 AM
I have seen this issue more and more lately, more than ever. Or it could be since it's affecting me that I'm noticing it more. The new gas blends seem to be causing many problems.
On my car I have the seethrough plastic filter before the carb, and as I let my car idle I could see hot bubbling fuel in the filter, and the carb was not getting enough fuels to keep the right levels and it died.
I'm currently installing a Carter electric pump to see if that solves it. As far as what I've read, carter recommends a filter BEFORE the pump. And I would run one after it also, which I'm planning to do with the seethrough filter before the carb.
If I were you I'd put a filter before the carb, seethrough plastic, and look at it when it's running hot/crappy vs. when it's relatively cool and running fine. That will tell you a lot.
Posted By: GreenBird
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/05/12 06:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Lastly I do have to admit that both my cars use mechanical pumps with hemi vapor separators with return line through the sending unit. I have burned alot of pump gas all over the country in real hi temps and real high altitudes and have never been let down.
Installing a return line from the filter/vapor separator back to the sending unit has worked for me to avoid heat soak. My friend, who is an expert, told me it was unnecessary. I did it anyway because I had heat soak problems with my 383 engine and I figured it would be worse as I was upgrading to a RB motor stroked out to 500. With this and a 1/2 carb spacer, my Edelbrock 800 cfm AVS(1813) has worked great right out of the box. I have been using Iowa 10 percent ethanol in really hot temperatures but the engine catches immediately. I used a $6 or $7 Wix filter as the vapor separator instead of the repro ones that apparently don't work too great. Installing the return line was easy -- if you are using the existing gas tank and related components, the most complicated requirement would be to install a sending unit that accepts the return line.
Posted By: feets
Re: Trouble with Edelbrock - 07/05/12 07:30 PM
Quote:
On my car I have the seethrough plastic filter before the carb, and as I let my car idle I could see hot bubbling fuel in the filter, and the carb was not getting enough fuels to keep the right levels and it died.
That is exactly what was happening to the Imperial during the Power Tour. My fuel pump was on it's way out. Replacing it fixed the problem.