WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY?

Posted By: CUDA8U

WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 12:09 AM

I've reading many reviews on different aluminum heads with good/bad about them all.

Which heads are best for a 440 street car 550-600hp on pump gas and 3" exhaust....considering a 493 stroker.

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 12:14 AM

While the Edelbrock RPMs may be able to make 600 horsepower, I'd suggest the Indy SRs for that many cubic inches. As I posted earlier today, though, they have raised exhaust ports and require the purchase of TTI headers.

Posted By: ahy

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 12:47 AM

I've got Ed heads on a 550 ish HP 496. Well made and compatible with widely available and robust valvetrain and exhaust parts. They do start to run out of airflow capability as you get to 600 HP. If you want best high RPM performance at the 600 HP level one of the bigger or raised port options may be better.

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 01:11 AM

I have Indy EZ's because they give you more room to grow in the future

All the stock intake and exhaust fits along with your rocker gear and holdowns. Buy them from a reputable dealer and have the valve job checked and some good springs and retainers installed.
I got mine from Nick Wilson at www.compu-flow.com
Nick can also set you up with a good quality 493 stroker kit and cam while you have him on the phone

Gus

Attached picture 7228822-savoyburnout.jpg

Posted By: 383man

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 01:13 AM

Quote:

I have Indy EZ's because they give you more room to grow in the future All the stock intake and exhaust fits along with your rocker gear and holdowns. Buy them from a reputable dealer and have the valve job checked and some good springs and retainers installed.
I got mine from Nick Wilson at www.compu-flow.com
Nick can also set you up with a good quality 493 stroker kit and cam while you have him on the phone
Gus

I did the same thing but I bought my EZ heads and custom grind cam from Dwayne Porter at Porter racing heads. The stroker kit is from 440Source. Ron

Posted By: Dragula

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 01:17 AM

Quote:

I have Indy EZ's because they give you more room to grow in the future All the stock intake and exhaust fits along with your rocker gear and holdowns. Buy them from a reputable dealer and have the valve job checked and some good springs and retainers installed.
I got mine from Nick Wilson at www.compu-flow.com
Nick can also set you up with a good quality 493 stroker kit and cam while you have him on the phone
Gus

Ditto! We run a set, they really fly even when unported.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 01:19 AM

Edelbrock RPM for a real street car. Indy heads for a race car with license plates.

Do you have a copy of my big block book? I covered all the heads choices in the book.
http://arengineering.com/home-page/books/

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 03:36 AM

I'd have to agree with Andy on this one, Performer RPM.. imo the best all round cylinder head. Pretty potent combo with the Performer RPM intake & camshaft package too.

And yes, for those who don't have Andy's book, one should buy it.

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 04:55 AM

sounds like my m1 single plane has to go

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:03 AM

Quote:

Edelbrock RPM for a real street car. Indy heads for a race car with license plates.

Do you have a copy of my big block book? I covered all the heads choices in the book.
http://arengineering.com/home-page/books/

is this book fully detailed on assembly?

i'm not a mechanic but have some experience

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:06 AM

If you already own a M1 single plane, use it, it will work just fine with the Edelbrock RPM heads on a 493.

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:11 AM

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:54 AM

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

Ov all the "cheap" big block aluminum heads out there i still like the Brodix B1BS heads... thats what i bought. They will cost a bit more by the time the car is running... this i wasn't prepared for and it broke my budget, but to most here that wouldn't be a problem. I also think they have the most ultimate potential ov all the heads mentioned.

If i was to buy heads for my next big block build though, i'd go way off the reserve and go with Mopar Stage 6 heads... but i would only buy them from a known builder and only after they've been checked for all the problems they've become known for. I'd also have them ported while they were out.

If i had a lot ov money, i'd find a set ov those Chapman Stage 6 heads and not look back. I'd love to get a set ov those... i might actually want to keep the big block in my car if i had some.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:57 AM

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

From personal experience:

M1 single plane
850 cfm Mighty Demon
451 cubic inch stroker, 9.5:1 compression
452 ported factory IRON heads 295 cfm @ .700"
Comp solid street roller 256/260 @ .050", .600" lift
621 HP @ 6100 rpm and 588 TQ @ 4600 rpm

Brodix heads, ah, way expensive for the same or less flow out of the box as the RPM head.

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 06:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

From personal experience:

M1 single plane
850 cfm Mighty Demon
451 cubic inch stroker, 9.5:1 compression
452 ported factory IRON heads 295 cfm @ .700"

just bought my holley 850 and my heads are STAGE 1 MUSCLE MOTORS "STREET KILLER" 250 cfm @ .500 LIFT ,CAST HEAD

10:1 COPRESSION
COMP CAM 21-224-4
M1 SINGLE PLANE
ROSS FLAT TOPS
CAT RODS

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 06:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

From personal experience:

M1 single plane
850 cfm Mighty Demon
451 cubic inch stroker, 9.5:1 compression
452 ported factory IRON heads 295 cfm @ .700"
Comp solid street roller 256/260 @ .050", .600" lift
621 HP @ 6100 rpm and 588 TQ @ 4600 rpm

Brodix heads, ah, way expensive for the same or less flow out of the box as the RPM head.

Flow is not everything. There is a lot more to making big power than just flow. Chamber design is a big deal i think, and in that Edelbrock is most definitely a compromise design. One thing i dont like about the B1's was the weight... they're not much lighter than the iron... you save only 14lbs per set! Its great that they're such a stout, well-built head, and that they can be taken quite far, but weight-savings is important too.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 06:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

From personal experience:

M1 single plane
850 cfm Mighty Demon
451 cubic inch stroker, 9.5:1 compression
452 ported factory IRON heads 295 cfm @ .700"

just bought my holley 850 and my heads are STAGE 1 MUSCLE MOTORS "STREET KILLER" 250 cfm @ .500 LIFT ,CAST HEAD

10:1 COPRESSION
COMP CAM 21-224-4
M1 SINGLE PLANE
ROSS FLAT TOPS
CAT RODS

In what application are you using these "STREET KILLER" heads? They would be a little soft for a big 493 street stroker.

The ones we ported were 90 cfm @ .100", 166 @ .200", 218 @ .300", 255 @ .400", 278 @ .500", 288 @ .600" and 295 @ .700".

As your stated goal was 550-600HP the RPM head is fine for a 493. The RPM heads do have the potential to go 750+ HP with good porting, but if you ever plan on that much horsepower, you would be better to start with a better head than the RPM.

Posted By: jamesc

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 07:07 AM

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

where does this come from? i admit my engine is nothing outstanding and the car is light but a mild flat tappet 451 by a backyard hack running 162 mph with that (stock) manifold has to be doing better than 500. this is with <11:1 CR, rpm heads and a .585" flat tappet. what would it do with tweaked 13:1 roller and better heads? imho the m1 flange manifold goes to 650 with no extravagant measures.

as to the original question imho the rpm head fills more voids than ANY other bb chrysler head offered. with the right selection of parts this is a 600 hp head all day long at a reasonable price point, a minor cleanup/backcut would be beneficial

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 09:01 AM

550-600 HP with a stroker can be done somewhat easy with the Edelbrock RPM, or 440 Source Stealth, but they won't have much room to grow if you want more power. Those heads are good for lower cost street applications, they both use stock offset rockers, and have fairly large 80-84cc chamber volume. The large chamber volume helps lower compression for a street engine, even though a stroker may still need dished pistons depending on the compression ratio your looking for. The Victor heads have smaller chambers (I think 74cc) and better ports, but take offset rockers, and raised exhaust ports. The intake ports are raised also, but will still accept a standard intake. The B-1 B/S heads have small 65cc chambers which would put compression around 14:1 or Higher with flat top pistons. They are well sized for the 440 and 451 bracket engines where a flat top piston will get about 13:1 compression. The B-1 B/S heads flow about what the RPM heads do out of the box. I think a ported B-1 B/S will flow a bit more than a ported RPM head, but it requires an offset intake rocker, and the exhaust ports are raised (I think more than the Victor heads?) The issue with the raised ports relates to header selection. On a low deck engine you may be able to use 440 headers, but on a raised deck, you may have to use the specific TTI headers or custom headers.
I haven't keept up with all the variations of Indy heads, so I'll leave that to those who know them better.

Posted By: alice

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 09:46 AM

I'd love to get a set ov those... i might actually want to keep the big block in my car if i had some.

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 02:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

isn't the single plane only good til 500hp?

also just realized no one mentioned brodix heads

From personal experience:

M1 single plane
850 cfm Mighty Demon
451 cubic inch stroker, 9.5:1 compression
452 ported factory IRON heads 295 cfm @ .700"

just bought my holley 850 and my heads are STAGE 1 MUSCLE MOTORS "STREET KILLER" 250 cfm @ .500 LIFT ,CAST HEAD

10:1 COPRESSION
COMP CAM 21-224-4
M1 SINGLE PLANE
ROSS FLAT TOPS
CAT RODS

In what application are you using these "STREET KILLER" heads? They would be a little soft for a big 493 street stroker.

The ones we ported were 90 cfm @ .100", 166 @ .200", 218 @ .300", 255 @ .400", 278 @ .500", 288 @ .600" and 295 @ .700".

As your stated goal was 550-600HP the RPM head is fine for a 493. The RPM heads do have the potential to go 750+ HP with good porting, but if you ever plan on that much horsepower, you would be better to start with a better head than the RPM.

the street killer cast heads are on there now and this is why i'm asking about aluminum heads,i know i can't reach my goal with these heads

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 04:25 PM

I've dyno and raced motors with ported stock cast iron heads, stock Eddy RPM, CNC ported Eddy RPM, small 440 standard ports B1-BS, same B1-BS heads CNC ported to M.W., Indy SR with M.W. ports and 440-1 CNC ported. If you want more power later buy the best heads you can afford now, at least with M.W. port sizes

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 05:10 PM

Quote:

set ov those

PLEASE tell me that was a slip of the finger and we don't have two of you now that can't spell OF!

Dave

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 08:49 PM

so it sounds like most are suggesting the eddy rpm heads.The fact that i don't have to buy after market valley pan,intake and headers is appealing.The only thing i've read is that the valve seating/alignment is off along with rockers....not sure

i am considering the TTI headers though.

600hp would be my max since i don't plan on sittin at the track all the time,i like to cruise.Pump gas is a must since the $$$$$ for it is already crazy.

Since my diff(742 case) is stock and i think the trans(both rebuilt) what would i have to upgrade on these to handle 550-600hp?

i'm running street tires so real hard hook ups probably won't happen.

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 05/31/12 11:09 PM

Quote:

so it sounds like most are suggesting the eddy rpm heads.

Not me!

470 cubes or less......Stage VI MP (standard rocker offset)

493 stroker or more........Indy EZ's w/max wedge porting (easy header fitment)

That's what I have ended up with once I started looking for some cylinder heads.

Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 12:25 AM

RPMs are about $1400.

What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

I know folks here bash 'em, but at least they look like stock iron heads.

Guess no one has tried the Super Stealths yet. I figure that would run about $1700-2k done?

Posted By: ahy

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 02:02 AM

Quote:

so it sounds like most are suggesting the eddy rpm heads.The fact that i don't have to buy after market valley pan,intake and headers is appealing.The only thing i've read is that the valve seating/alignment is off along with rockers....not sure

i am considering the TTI headers though.

600hp would be my max since i don't plan on sittin at the track all the time,i like to cruise.Pump gas is a must since the $$$$$ for it is already crazy.

Since my diff(742 case) is stock and i think the trans(both rebuilt) what would i have to upgrade on these to handle 550-600hp?

i'm running street tires so real hard hook ups probably won't happen.

On the valve alignment, its pretty common with any aftermarket heads or even stock heads with aftermarket rockers to need adjustment. On my Eddy's with Comp pro-magnum rockers, sweep over the valve was near perfect. Alignment along the shaft needed some tweaking. I had my MP aluminum hold downs milled a little on the sides to create extra clearance then used a couple packs of rocker shaft shims to dial in the rocker tip position.

The transmission and rear end should be fine on street tires. If you run slicks and hook, the rear is probably not going to be happy.

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 02:52 AM

Quote:

RPMs are about $1400.

What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

I know folks here bash 'em, but at least they look like stock iron heads.

Guess no one has tried the Super Stealths yet. I figure that would run about $1700-2k done?

Still not as good a deal as a set of EZ's that really respond to a minor cleanup with stock port window.You can get them around $2000.00 give or take a few hun depending on who you get them from.Open them up to Max-Wedge port and then you really have a nice head

I use a Performer RPM with a pretty mild flat cam and they really pull hard down low with a 5-speed with some nice gearing

Gus

Attached picture 7230405-savoyburnout.jpg

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 04:38 AM

thanks everyone!!!

i hate to drag this post on or start another but one more question

what can i expect to pay to match port my m1 to a set of heads?

Posted By: DrCharles

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 02:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

Still not as good a deal as a set of EZ's that really respond to a minor cleanup with stock port window.You can get them around $2000.00 give or take a few hun depending on who you get them from.

The CNC-ported Stealths are $2000 a pair from 440source and the flow table looks good, 321 cfm at .650-up lift... how do the EZ's compare if they're the same price?

Posted By: 383man

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 04:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

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What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

Still not as good a deal as a set of EZ's that really respond to a minor cleanup with stock port window.You can get them around $2000.00 give or take a few hun depending on who you get them from.

The CNC-ported Stealths are $2000 a pair from 440source and the flow table looks good, 321 cfm at .650-up lift... how do the EZ's compare if they're the same price?

My EZ's are not CNC ported as they were just cleaned up a bit. They are Max Wedge size and flow 340 @ .650. But I am surprised to see Steaths flow 321 @ .650 as I have not heard of them flowing that good. Ron

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 04:25 PM

Quote:

RPMs are about $1400.

What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

I know folks here bash 'em, but at least they look like stock iron heads.

Those are what I'd buy for a strong street engine; good performance with a stock look all painted up =

Dave

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 04:36 PM

Has anyone here bolted the $1000 Stealths on right out of the box? I know it's not the best, but I'd be interested in hearing reports of taking the Stealths and bolting right them on and going...

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 05:48 PM

Quote:

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What about ported Stealths? I figure they would come around $1400 as well, but would it flow more than stock box RPMs?

Still not as good a deal as a set of EZ's that really respond to a minor cleanup with stock port window.You can get them around $2000.00 give or take a few hun depending on who you get them from.

The CNC-ported Stealths are $2000 a pair from 440source and the flow table looks good, 321 cfm at .650-up lift... how do the EZ's compare if they're the same price?

My EZ's are not CNC ported as they were just cleaned up a bit. They are Max Wedge size and flow 340 @ .650. But I am surprised to see Steaths flow 321 @ .650 as I have not heard of them flowing that good. Ron

Here are the flows from our bench on the out-of-the-box standard Stealth and then after some serious porting. It is why I say if you already have ANY aftermarket aluminum head, you don't need to buy another head to get 750 HP. Why buy another head that you will still have to port to get 750 HP if you already own a set of aluminum heads? If the Stealths can do it, which heads can't?

Lift.........OOTB Stealth......LaRoy Ported Stealth

.100"...........66....................71cfm
.200"..........142...................153
.300"..........205...................217
.400"..........240...................265
.450"..................................287
.500"..........255...................301
.550"..................................325
.600"..........267...................333
.650"..................................339
.700"..........268...................344
.750"..................................348

Posted By: 70VcodeCoronetRT

Re: WHICH ALUMINUM HEADS AND WHY? - 06/01/12 06:31 PM

Chapman stage 6s. Oh crap they don't make them anymore