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Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car?

Posted By: DrCharles

Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 01:36 AM

I've relocated the battery to the trunk in my 451 Dart. I have the appropriate heavy cable. Should I run it under the car, where it could be damaged by rocks or other debris, or through the passenger compartment where it's protected but could be more of a fire hazard in the event of a short... thoughts?

thanks
-Charles
Posted By: finadk

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 03:04 AM

I would run it inside the car. Just be sure to use a good fuse back at the battery and you wont have a fire hazard.
Posted By: BrianShaughnessy

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 03:28 AM

Quote:

I've relocated the battery to the trunk in my 451 Dart. I have the appropriate heavy cable. Should I run it under the car, where it could be damaged by rocks or other debris, or through the passenger compartment where it's protected but could be more of a fire hazard in the event of a short... thoughts?

thanks
-Charles




I had a fire in Sinnamon back around 1980 when a couple big friends sat in the back leaving some club one night.
Back seat shorted the + cable. Had to kick out the back seat bottom and put the carpet fire out. Not fun.

I leave batteries up front anymore. Less drama.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 03:31 AM

Run a ford solenoid in the rear so the fat wire isn't hot all the time. From your battery cut off switch, run a 6-8 gauge wire up to your power distribution point. Easier to fuse the 6-8 gauge as well.

I don't like having that fat 1 gauge or so wire hot all the time.
Posted By: DrCharles

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 03:53 AM

Thanks for the solenoid suggestion! Think I'll do it that way

I should point out that the common Ford part, intended for starter use, has an intermittent-duty coil and will overheat (and probably fail) if used continuously. There is an identical looking part that has a continuous-duty coil and that would be the one to buy...

I don't have the p/n handy at the moment, but I bought one for my '87 International big-truck years ago after discovering it had been "rigged" for yard-dog use with the intermittent one
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 04:05 AM

S-605 continuous duty relay.

Here's a schematic using a ford solenoid and S605 in the alt line. I trigger the S605 from a keyed sources on street driven stuff so it doesn't draw when the master cutoff is on.

Posted By: Todd

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 05:24 PM

Quote:

S-605 continuous duty relay.

Here's a schematic using a ford solenoid and S605 in the alt line. I trigger the S605 from a keyed sources on street driven stuff so it doesn't draw when the master cutoff is on.






I did it the same way except I added a fuse between the solenoid and the alternator wire.

Attached picture 7215086-DSC00788(Large).JPG
Posted By: jbc426

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 05:47 PM

I think a properly fused cable will always be safer than an unfused cable that's triggered by a relay/solonoid.

Modern large amperage fusing solutions are compact, easy to install and very reliable, they protect the cable 100% of the time and you don't have to run a redundant second wire for power/charging.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 06:00 PM

Quote:

Run a ford solenoid in the rear so the fat wire isn't hot all the time. From your battery cut off switch, run a 6-8 gauge wire up to your power distribution point. Easier to fuse the 6-8 gauge as well.

I don't like having that fat 1 gauge or so wire hot all the time.





This is basically what I did as my battery cable to the starter goes under my carpet and is only hot while cranking as I use a Ford style starter solenoid. Then I took a 60 amp type of fuse link with eyelet terminals on it and bolted it right to the battery and ran 8 gauge wire from it to the hot terminal on the factory starter relay to feed everything in the car. That way the hot feed wire is fused with the 60 amp fuse. Ron
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 07:18 PM

Quote:

I think a properly fused cable will always be safer than an unfused cable that's triggered by a relay/solonoid.

Modern large amperage fusing solutions are compact, easy to install and very reliable, they protect the cable 100% of the time and you don't have to run a redundant second wire for power/charging.




Safer is a loose term.

My reason for using a relay in both starter and alt lines is when you throw the master, EVERYTHING outside about a 2' cube around the battery is dead. No live alt wire to the front. If you've never seen a car burn because of a live alt wire, even with a fusable link, you just haven't lived...

I don't like running the starter amperage through the master cutoff.

Fuse a 1 gauge cable with a fuse large enough to handle starter load and it can and will smolder for a long time before that fuse pops, if that's what you are using it for. At what cost as well.

I'll take the 2-4 extra pounds that I might have over the other methods that I've seen, like the minimum std. Just personal preference.

Pick your preferred method and run with it.
Posted By: MoparMarq

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 07:35 PM

Quote:

I did it the same way except I added a fuse between the solenoid and the alternator wire.




https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7215086-DSC00788%28Large%29.JPG

Don't mean to hijack, but are those two terminals through the sheet metal by the license plate inset meant for a battery tender or power takeoff or something?

I'd like to do something similar to mine so I don't have to open the trunk to put on the battery tender in the off-season.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/21/12 07:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I did it the same way except I added a fuse between the solenoid and the alternator wire.




https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7215086-DSC00788%28Large%29.JPG

Don't mean to hijack, but are those two terminals through the sheet metal by the license plate inset meant for a battery tender or power takeoff or something?

I'd like to do something similar to mine so I don't have to open the trunk to put on the battery tender in the off-season.




Yes, its terminals for a battery charger.

Attached picture 7215265-2011-06-1116.01.58(Large).jpg
Posted By: DrCharles

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 01:41 AM

Quote:


My reason for using a relay in both starter and alt lines is when you throw the master, EVERYTHING outside about a 2' cube around the battery is dead. No live alt wire to the front. If you've never seen a car burn because of a live alt wire, even with a fusable link, you just haven't lived...

I don't like running the starter amperage through the master cutoff.

Fuse a 1 gauge cable with a fuse large enough to handle starter load and it can and will smolder for a long time before that fuse pops




I concur, and as overweight as I am, an extra couple lbs for another wire and relay is immaterial

An intermittent duty starter solenoid (for the starter line) is easily found. But I'm getting nowhere with Internet searches for "S605" or other continuous duty relay... the local chain stores probably won't help much since they are conditioned to parrot "year, make, model". Would they actually know what that part number is??
Posted By: Todd

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 03:01 AM

The one I have is from Napa. These are the same ones used on electric golf carts if that helps.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 03:16 AM

The Napa site used to be good, type in a different manufacture number and it would kick out their item...

Found this site. May help.

http://www.ase-supply.com/Solenoids_s/44.htm

200 amp cole hersee for mif $30 range. 85 amp one in there too.
Posted By: MadMatt

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 04:04 AM

I have a 70 Dart and I was able to squeeze the battery cable into the wire trough that runs along side the seat and under the sill plate. It then goes behind the kick panel and comes out under the dash. Since I have an automatic I put a bulkhead terminal in the hole for the clutch push rod and then ran the same diameter wire on the other side down to the starter. Then a wire from the starter up to the solenoid.
Posted By: DrCharles

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 05:28 AM

Thanks for the link, RobX... they're on the way from ASE Supply, one intermittent and one continuous-duty

I am also planning to run the heavy starter cable (hot only on start) in the left hand wiring trough. Probably will use a #4 for the alternator to minimize drop (since it's a CS-130) back to the trunk, but it'll be shorter to run it on the right since the battery and alt are both on that side.

Then I need to run one more feed back to the dash and underhood area to power everything... HHR fan, MSD, headlights, instruments, heater fan, accessories... if it weren't for the need of a master cutoff switch I could just power everything off the alternator hot stud without all the extra copper...

Bulkhead terminals are neat but they add two more points to corrode or come loose... thinking of holesaw + grommets instead
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 06:08 AM

Happy to help. There are lots of ways to do this,

You could also break the alt line back to the battery, put in a power distribution stud/panel and run the lights/fan power from there with relays being triggered from switches on the down stream side of your master switch.
Posted By: kielbasa

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 03:46 PM

about running a jumper wire on the starter (instead of switched +12V to just the small terminal on starter), are you guys experiencing starter run-on and/or starter crank without the pinion engaging by doing this?
I ran into this situation when doing the same on a permanent magnet starter on v-twin lawn garden engine. I think the starter begins to act as a generator and keeps itself energized for a few seconds after engine starts.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the link, RobX... they're on the way from ASE Supply, one intermittent and one continuous-duty

I am also planning to run the heavy starter cable (hot only on start) in the left hand wiring trough. Probably will use a #4 for the alternator to minimize drop (since it's a CS-130) back to the trunk, but it'll be shorter to run it on the right since the battery and alt are both on that side.

Then I need to run one more feed back to the dash and underhood area to power everything... HHR fan, MSD, headlights, instruments, heater fan, accessories... if it weren't for the need of a master cutoff switch I could just power everything off the alternator hot stud without all the extra copper...

Bulkhead terminals are neat but they add two more points to corrode or come loose... thinking of holesaw + grommets instead





3 cables from front to back? Are you going to fuse the second and third cables or are you going to use the solonoids to turn them off like your doing with starter cable?

Inexpensive modern fuses can easily handle loads as heavy as a cranking starter and still blow almost instantly before you smoulder a cable.

If you are burning up wires before your fuses blow, you're either using the wrong gear, or don't have your set-up wired right.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/22/12 09:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for the link, RobX... they're on the way from ASE Supply, one intermittent and one continuous-duty

I am also planning to run the heavy starter cable (hot only on start) in the left hand wiring trough. Probably will use a #4 for the alternator to minimize drop (since it's a CS-130) back to the trunk, but it'll be shorter to run it on the right since the battery and alt are both on that side.

Then I need to run one more feed back to the dash and underhood area to power everything... HHR fan, MSD, headlights, instruments, heater fan, accessories... if it weren't for the need of a master cutoff switch I could just power everything off the alternator hot stud without all the extra copper...

Bulkhead terminals are neat but they add two more points to corrode or come loose... thinking of holesaw + grommets instead





3 cables from front to back? Are you going to fuse the second and third cables or are you going to use the solonoids to turn them off like your doing with starter cable?

Inexpensive modern fuses can easily handle loads as heavy as a cranking starter and still blow almost instantly before you smoulder a cable.

If you are burning up wires before your fuses blow, you're either using the wrong gear, or don't have your set-up wired right.




Pony up an alternative with the inexpensive solution with part numbers etc. you are suggestion. I'm all for seeing different ways of doing this.

You have basically 3 load carrying wires in my setup.

Alt - only hot when relay is switched.
Accessory to front power distribution - only hot when master is turned on.
Starter cable - only hot when relay engaged.

Mine vs some of the others with a constant hot starter cable, through the master (ugh), is I have to run a couple more feet for the accessory wire supply. I'll take that.

My bottom line is I don't want any hot wires in the front of the car/engine compartment when your master is thrown, fused or not.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Trunk battery cable - inside or under the car? - 05/23/12 06:31 PM

Quote:

about running a jumper wire on the starter (instead of switched +12V to just the small terminal on starter), are you guys experiencing starter run-on and/or starter crank without the pinion engaging by doing this?
I ran into this situation when doing the same on a permanent magnet starter on v-twin lawn garden engine. I think the starter begins to act as a generator and keeps itself energized for a few seconds after engine starts.






No problems what so ever as I use a small jumper from the starter stud to the solenoid terminal. Ford actually did this back in the late 60's and early 70's on some of the bigblock T-birds and Lincolns with 429's and 460's. They use the started solenoid mounted on the fenderwell and also had a solenoid style starter on the car with a metal link they used from the starter stud to the solenoid. Most Fords used the starter without a solenoid mounted on it as it used one of the electric magnetic poles to engauge the starter. But I have had no run on or any problem like that. Ron
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