looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle

Posted By: feets

looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/20/12 08:11 PM

I'm looking for a drop in alternator with a high output at idle.
I understand the Powermaster alternators will do that but they don't drop in without changes to the brackets.
I don't have time to cobble something together before the power tour but I'd like to change the alternator.

The blower motors each pull 20 amps. If I have the A/C running and lights on at idle it will pull the stock alternator down pretty hard.

Does anybody have any experience with an alternator that fits these needs?

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/20/12 08:48 PM

http://store.alternatorparts.com/partnoho-7015.aspx

Posted By: feets

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/20/12 09:49 PM

I know about hot rodding the stock alternators but they're not known to charge well at idle.

Posted By: ahy

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/20/12 10:53 PM

The best stock square back is the late 70's 78 amp unit. Its available as reman. The Chrysler case Powermaster ususally rated 75 amps will have similar performance. 50 amps at idle is about as good as it gets with either of these. Depending on what you have now, that may be a worthwile improvement.

With iron heads, the 140 amp Powermaster may bolt in and work. When I tried it on a lowdeck with AC type brackets it bolted up... only problem was the back of the alternator and the Ed heads wanted to take up the same space if it was adjusted in. I returned it and ran a 75 A Powermaster for a while. With a big EFI fuel pump it just didn't do so well - big discharge at idle and barely kept up with AC and brights on running down the road. I finally cleaned up the brackets I had for the "big Chrysler" 100 A alternator from a '78 Cordoba. With a reman alternator, my power problems are solved. Its just heavy.

These cars survived a long time with the idle discharge from new. As long as you haven't added much load and aren't running sensitive electronics, you might be able to just get along with it using one of the better squarebacks. A good big battery helps.

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/20/12 10:55 PM

Feets I have a Denso unit from a Toyota pick-up I scored during cash for clunkers and it performs flawlessly at all RPM's

Get the parts to install it from AndyF's site www.arengineering.com
Gus

Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 12:16 AM

""I understand the Powermaster alternators will do that but they don't drop in without changes to the brackets.""

Both of my Powermaster alternators dropped right in with no problems to the brackets. 63a at idle and 90a max. is what my current tag states.

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 12:19 AM

Would a different diameter pully help ?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 12:21 AM

Quote:

Would a different diameter pully help ?

Sure would. Smaller Alt, or Bigger Crank.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 12:23 AM

dropped in a Power Master 140amp on my 70 Charger, 440 Non-AC, never modified a bracket for it. You gotta make sure its tightened good though. When I put my foot down the belt would tighten up, flex the alternator and the back of it would tap the cylinder head, kill the fusible link.

Clean up your engine bay, remove your voltage regulator. I run a Delco on my 69. Cleaner engine bay, less wires, Start the car, rod check to 1500rpm's. Alternator on and charging at 14.0v. 100amp alternator

Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 12:30 AM

Quote:

I'm looking for a drop in alternator with a high output at idle.
I understand the Powermaster alternators will do that but they don't drop in without changes to the brackets.
I don't have time to cobble something together before the power tour but I'd like to change the alternator.

The blower motors each pull 20 amps. If I have the A/C running and lights on at idle it will pull the stock alternator down pretty hard.

Does anybody have any experience with an alternator that fits these needs?

130 amp denso of an 02 RAM van bolts to a 440 with the smallest of mods. Trim 1/2" of one bolt spacer, get a used 70's GM alt pulley, go to hardware store and buy 2 nuts. It doesn't get much easier than that. of course you have to a little wiring but that's going to have to be done on ANY high output alternator you get.

It will sit close to the block, but it's workable. I've had mine on the charger for 10 years and it flat out kicks azz. With every single thing in the car turned on (electric fuel pump, electric fans, hi brights, heater on high) I still measured 14v at idle. There are other versions of this alternator. I remember seeing a lot of them in the 90 amp range and DIRT cheap.

Denso Alt Swap Linky

Posted By: feets

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 01:58 AM

I ran one of the Denso alternators on the hot rod. It required different brackets and pulleys. I compared the Denso alternator with an old square back today. The pulleys don't quite line up. I would have to cut down the alternator bracket that bolts to the cylinder head then see what other changes would be required.

The Imperial has a smog pump, A/C, power steering, and water pump to run off the crank pulley. I have axed the smog pump but it still required a different crank pulley.

I am not going to have the time to fiddle around making brackets. Between now and the Power Tour I have exactly one free day to play with the car.

Posted By: ahy

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 02:29 AM

I think there is a decent chance the 140A MOPAR adapted Powermaster will bolt in and clear with iron heads. If you really need the juice, worth a try. Summit took mine back when it didn't fit w. Ed heads. As backup, I'd have a 78 amp parts store reman squreback or a 75 amp Powermaster square back on hand.

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 02:30 AM

Quote:

.....The blower motors each pull 20 amps. If I have the A/C running and lights on at idle it will pull the stock alternator down pretty hard.......

Sounds like you just need a bigger alternator. Period.

Posted By: feets

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 02:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

.....The blower motors each pull 20 amps. If I have the A/C running and lights on at idle it will pull the stock alternator down pretty hard.......

Sounds like you just need a bigger alternator. Period.

It's a completely stock setup. The alternators were sufficient for most cars. The Imperials really could have used more output.

Posted By: jsully

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 03:05 AM

Have you considered installing relay's? I added them to my headlights and fuel pump with great results (no dim lights and full 13volts to the pump). Battery power straight to Lights / fans / pumps...just an option.

Posted By: DirectSubjection

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 03:26 AM

I was looking into the same thing and ruled out the Powermaster 140 too.

I see Tuff-Stuff makes some listed at 100A units, this one is Chrysler square back and externally regulated (internal version there too). But I have no experience with them on knowledge of what they really put out.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFF-7509RCSP/

Posted By: ahy

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 03:36 AM

I understand the Tuff Stuff 100 A unit has idle output in the 40-50 A range - similar to or slightly less than the OE 78 amp or Powermaster 75 amp.

Posted By: jbc426

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 06:02 AM

I'm using an AC Delco CS 144 alternator on my 1970, because it puts out 115 amps at idle over 200 amps above a fast idle. Nothing mentioned here even comes close.

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Posted By: Pyper70

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 04:09 PM

Quote:

I'm using an AC Delco CS 144 alternator on my 1970, because it puts out 115 amps at idle over 200 amps above a fast idle. Nothing mentioned here even comes close.

Yeah but most of us don't need 200 amps. What can you possibly install on the car that would require such a large draw? two ...maybe four speakers? A subwoofer? An amplifier? A pair of electric seats, heated cup holders? a set of electric fans...push it and say you wanna have HID headlights. Bit excessive

Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 04:18 PM

Anybody here running one of these Quick Start upgrade kits ?

Posted By: DrCharles

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm using an AC Delco CS 144 alternator on my 1970, because it puts out 115 amps at idle over 200 amps above a fast idle. Nothing mentioned here even comes close.

Yeah but most of us don't need 200 amps. What can you possibly install on the car that would require such a large draw?

It's probably the 115 amps at idle he's more interested in. Say you have a large electric fan (40 amps), headlights (20 amps), MSD ignition, electric fuel pump, HVAC blower on high... that's 80 amps right there!

I hate that annoying discharge/dimming at idle from a too-small alternator also. Got a clean "Duralast" rebuilt CS-130 for $20 at a swap meet and surprisingly it tested fine at the local Autozone (the core charge is actually more than $20)

Posted By: jbc426

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 05:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm using an AC Delco CS 144 alternator on my 1970, because it puts out 115 amps at idle over 200 amps above a fast idle. Nothing mentioned here even comes close.

Yeah but most of us don't need 200 amps. What can you possibly install on the car that would require such a large draw?

It's probably the 115 amps at idle he's more interested in. Say you have a large electric fan (40 amps), headlights (20 amps), MSD ignition, electric fuel pump, HVAC blower on high... that's 80 amps right there!

I hate that annoying discharge/dimming at idle from a too-small alternator also. Got a clean "Duralast" rebuilt CS-130 for $20 at a swap meet and surprisingly it tested fine at the local Autozone (the core charge is actually more than $20)

Exactly!

It's the amps at idle I need. I'm running a pretty significant aftermarket electrical load including: dual high-performance Spal fans, a very large electric fuel pump, MSD, A/C, and I always run with my headlights and driving lights on.

I looked at a lot of the options mentioned here, but nothing even comes close to the CS144 at idle, and it pretty much bolts right in too.

Be prepared to read, understand and upgrade your electrical system to safely distribute and take advantage of all this extra amperage using the Mad Electric concepts and others.

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Posted By: MarkZ

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 07:19 PM

Check out Mancini Racing. http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/delialbrpk.html

I bought their 60 amp Denso kit for my small block and couldn't be happier. Running the blower at full blast with the lights on at idle with a turn signal on doesn't dim the headlights anymore. The brackets lined everything up just right too. While I can't speak for the big block 120 amp setup, they do sell the kit with brackets.

Posted By: finadk

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 09:48 PM

Check out www.powerbastards.com, I just picked up the Fitzall 220 unit that puts out 110 amps at idle and a full output of 220A. It is a very nice new unit at a good price. It may not be exactly a drop in but its pretty close, very similar to the Denso unit. I needed to put a bushing in the mounting hole to go from a 1/2 bolt to a 3/8 mounting bolt (got it from McMaster and I have a spare if you need one).

The power lug ends up about 3/4 inch from the head, a but close, but no closer than some factory GM stuff I have seen.

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 09:59 PM

Quote:

Exactly!

It's the amps at idle I need. I'm running a pretty significant aftermarket electrical load including: dual high-performance Spal fans, a very large electric fuel pump, MSD, A/C, and I always run with my headlights and driving lights on.

I looked at a lot of the options mentioned here, but nothing even comes close to the CS144 at idle, and it pretty much bolts right in too.

Be prepared to read, understand and upgrade your electrical system to safely distribute and take advantage of all this extra amperage using the Mad Electric concepts and others.

+1! I'm also going with coil packs & injection so I'll need a constant 80-85amps at idle with everything on.

Posted By: feets

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/21/12 10:14 PM

Quote:

I'm using an AC Delco CS 144 alternator on my 1970, because it puts out 115 amps at idle over 200 amps above a fast idle. Nothing mentioned here even comes close.

That alternator will not work in the Imperial without some fabrication.
I need a dual V belt pulley in the stock location since the alternator and compressor run off the same belts.

Posted By: feets

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/22/12 01:50 AM

The Denso alternator I had on the hot rod will not fit the Imperial. It would require custom brackets and it hits the cylinder head.
I am not going to alter the positions of EVERYTHING hanging off the front of the engine. There is neither the desire nor the time required to do something that invasive.

I guess I'll stuff a standard style alternator on there and let it go.

Posted By: silvercloud

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/22/12 02:42 AM

What about the last ('87-89) Chrysler alternator series? 90-120 amp IIRC and supposedly bolts in place of the earlier ones. These were the transition piece between the old-style units and the Nippondenso ones. I have never used one but have stumbled across them on Rams/Dakotas at the wreckers. Trying for an image link off RockAuto-let's see if it works....

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimag...tnbr%3D334-2219

Here's a couple of Allpar pages referencing it too:

http://www.allpar.com/eek/ELECTRIC.HTML

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html

HTH
Jason

Posted By: ahy

Re: looking for high amp alternator that charges at idle - 05/22/12 02:46 AM

Sounds good. Later on when you add power hungry goodies you can figure out a high amp option. For now, I bet she'll do fine with a good squareback.