Another dead orange box.

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 01:12 AM

I had a Chrome Box on my Dart for 5 years and nothing went wrong with it, I just wised up and put an MSD before I became a victim of the failure on one of my long trips.

I have witnessed many failed MSD boxes at the track,and we don't log on any miles there. At least with a Mopar type box a replacement is easy to find if you have a failure out on the road.
I have my fingers crossed for the Rev-N-Nator.

Keith

Posted By: JonC

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 01:33 AM

I have had an orange box on my Cuda since 1994 and still running like a champ. I probably shouldn't have said that. XX fingers crossed, knocked on wood also.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 03:04 AM

I ditched the POS ECU's and use MSD on anything that I want to actually start and run.

I've drove them thousands of miles and never had an MSD fail.

I can't say the same about ECU's.

Posted By: Erics5th

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 03:11 AM

ECU failure, both mine and what I have read here and other boards, is why I went with an HEI system.

Posted By: RangerDan440

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 03:15 AM

Quote:

Try a chrome box. Mines lasted 3 yrs and counting.

Spend the extra money, its worth it

Posted By: 666

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 04:39 AM

I ask about the box in the Challenger. My father told me after having two orange boxes fail first time out at the drag strip, that was enough of them he said. He said he put the chrome box in the car in the early eighties and it has had zero problems. He runs the box on the passenger side at the front of the rad cradle and it stays cool.This Challenger has seen the drag strip and now is only used as a street car.

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 04:56 AM

Ironic..
This issue come up every few weeks..
One can get a chrome box for about $50 why cut corners with an orange box..

The chrome box in my RR has been in there 10 years, I did try an MSD box a couple of years back...
Didn't run any better, put the MSD box in my son's car and reinstalled the chrome box...

Just my $0.02..

Posted By: cogen80

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 12:34 PM

just convert to HEI and be done with it. can even hide the module in the old garbage orange box.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

Ironic..
This issue come up every few weeks..
One can get a chrome box for about $50 why cut corners with an orange box..

Problem is the electronic conversion kit people buy comes with the orange box , you have to spend more to get the chrome box on top of the kit. Heck even the Crate motors are/were sold with that POS orange box.

It took MP 30 plus year to supply the kit with a distributor that had an adjustable mechanical advance , how long will it take for them to change the orange box to stop pulling out the retard above 4000 rpm?

MP are you listening ??? FIX the orange box or just sell the kit with the chrome box .

Posted By: 666

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 05:49 PM

JohnRR is correct.It takes Chrysler years to learn from the public. My father told me he buys the conversion kit off Mancinis at the mopar meets and they use to sub in the chrome box for 10 to 20 dollars more.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/02/12 06:22 PM

Funny!
4-5 years ago the story was, "My crappy chrome box quit. I love my new orange box."
How times change!

R.

Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:50 AM

Quote:

I ditched the POS ECU's and use MSD on anything that I want to actually start and run.

I've drove them thousands of miles and never had an MSD fail.

I can't say the same about ECU's.

Hell, just last month my MSD 6AL took a dump and almost left me stranded. Luckily I carry a spare parts store ECU with a wiring harness and ballast. In their defense though I shipped it back to MSD for repair and they only charged me $35.

It did last a lot longer than the orange box it replaced though.

Posted By: Yellow Fever

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:13 AM

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:17 AM

Yep I'm guilty of doing that conversion. But with an accel unit.. Ran strong.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:32 AM

Quote:

I'm toying with sticking one of those inside an orange box so it will plug into the factory harness . easier to just swap that out and it can be bought ANYWHERE.

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:41 AM

Now thats a hell of an idea, but I'd put it in a stock ECU.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:46 AM

Quote:

Now thats a hell of an idea, but I'd put it in a stock ECU.

If I can dig one up that would be a better option , i only have orange boxes to work with at the moment.

Posted By: Yellow Fever

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:48 AM

Now there's an idea! Room for a heat sink that can't be seen as well.

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:50 AM

I got a whole bunch on stock ECU's.. all working.. If you ever get the itch, I'll send you a couple on my dime.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 04:38 AM

FBO was putting the GM hei modules inside Mopar boxes at one time. He is trying something else now. If you guys insist on doing it,I would suggest an aftermarket performance unit. The stock ones are not a.ny better than the MP boxes. I replaced several stock ones when I was a general mechanic,they need to be mounted solidly and with dielectric grease on their back to last.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 05:52 AM

From what I read it sounds like the orange ECU's made from about 2004 maybe and up are the ones giving trouble ? Thats because I bought two orange box's in 1996 and both are still going strong right now. One is still on my 63 and has helped it run 10.70's with no ign problem at all. I do plan to upgrade to MSD one day when I can afford it a little easier. But it just seems all the newer ones bought in the last 8 to 10 years are the ones that seem to give everyone trouble. Ron

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:11 PM

Quote:

FBO was putting the GM hei modules inside Mopar boxes at one time. He is trying something else now. If you guys insist on doing it,I would suggest an aftermarket performance unit. The stock ones are not a.ny better than the MP boxes. I replaced several stock ones when I was a general mechanic,they need to be mounted solidly and with dielectric grease on their back to last.

I wouldn't waste time using a stock one , definitely a performance unit mounted to a heat sink. I like the new MSD that has a rev limiter built into it , but it's a little pricey .

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:15 PM

Quote:

From what I read it sounds like the orange ECU's made from about 2004 maybe and up are the ones giving trouble ? Thats because I bought two orange box's in 1996 and both are still going strong right now. One is still on my 63 and has helped it run 10.70's with no ign problem at all. I do plan to upgrade to MSD one day when I can afford it a little easier. But it just seems all the newer ones bought in the last 8 to 10 years are the ones that seem to give everyone trouble. Ron

Ron , have you compared the 2 you have to something else ? Have you had a timing light on it and brought the RPMS up to 5000 to see if the timing is retarding above 4? I had an orange box back in the 80's, the 340 I had it on ran better with the accel dual point race distributor I switched back and forth between.

I'd like to see someone with one of these older orange boxes do a back to back at the track with something else , even a current chrome box.

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:21 PM

Not with a orange vs chrome, but at the track my orange box crapped out, I put one of those part store 'blue' ones on. No ET difference at all. This was bracket racing and I never changed my dial in

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:23 PM

Quote:

Not with a orange vs chrome, but at the track my orange box crapped out, I put one of those part store 'blue' ones on. No ET difference at all. This was bracket racing and I never changed my dial in

That's not saying much for the orange box then is it ?

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:26 PM

i started using the mopar electronic ignition in the early '70's. i had a pre-production unit on my '68 road runner, probably in '73. i knew some chrysler people back then who would get me stuff to play with. i've used a multiple of boxes thru the years and have never broke one. this would include the early black/gold, blue nascar, orange, chrome, FBO. lx101, and even the proform cheapie. i always avoided the gold box. i believe something like bad grounds (i always run a ground wire) or some kind of electrical feedback, or poor installation is the main culprit for failures. its also my understanding that all of these boxes (other than offshore) are made by Standard.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:26 PM

I'd like to see someone with one of these older orange boxes do a back to back at the track with something else , even a current chrome box.

I never tried it at the track when I ran the MP boxes on my cars,but I have done back to back dyno pulls.
My old orange box(mid 80's unit) runs exactly the same as a chrome box I bought in 2000. The orange box I bought around 2000 runs differently.
Different coils and different ditributor's pick up coil signals make a big difference on how any of them work.
I am testing several other boxes against them all. I hope to write an article on all these very soon.
Keith

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 02:49 PM

Quote:

I'd like to see someone with one of these older orange boxes do a back to back at the track with something else , even a current chrome box.

i did some back to back tests at the track and on a chassis dyno. this was a near stock 440 with a 6-pak and auto trans. there wasn't any difference in box changes or an aftermarket ignition. i used to build a bracket 470 for some poor boys. they ran 10.00's with one of my homemade factory distributors and an LX101 box. put an MSD7 with an MSD distributor in it and it ran 10.00's. this is why i don't buy any of the ignition gadgets, especially MSD. besides, i've seen too many 6al's blow up and i don't want to be stuck along side the road. these "wonder" ignitons are only as good as the old ignition is bad. the only time i can see to run the MSD is in a bracket car that needs some electronic gadgetry to make it work.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

From what I read it sounds like the orange ECU's made from about 2004 maybe and up are the ones giving trouble ? Thats because I bought two orange box's in 1996 and both are still going strong right now. One is still on my 63 and has helped it run 10.70's with no ign problem at all. I do plan to upgrade to MSD one day when I can afford it a little easier. But it just seems all the newer ones bought in the last 8 to 10 years are the ones that seem to give everyone trouble. Ron

Ron , have you compared the 2 you have to something else ? Have you had a timing light on it and brought the RPMS up to 5000 to see if the timing is retarding above 4? I had an orange box back in the 80's, the 340 I had it on ran better with the accel dual point race distributor I switched back and forth between.

I'd like to see someone with one of these older orange boxes do a back to back at the track with something else , even a current chrome box.

Actually I have never had it to 5k with the timing lite on it. I bring it to about 3k to set total timing. But I can tell you this. We had the same orange box on my sons Dart up until 2004 and then he switched to an MSD unit. The car ran the same et and mph as it made no difference in performance or driveability. Thats about the only real test I can compare it to. Ron

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 03:43 PM

If the orange box is indeed pulling out timing above 4000 rpm then there has to be a difference especially at the track unless people are shifting at 3500 and going thru the traps at 3900 .

And I am talking about NEW, CURRENT orange and chrome boxes , not things that people did 20 yrs ago, even before 2004 if that is when they changed.

Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 07:33 PM

Another vote for HEI conversion. Those modules are small, and easy to throw a spare in the glovebox (or ashtray).

Here's a cool idea to mount it:

http://www.designed2drive.com/

Posted By: cuda-sweden

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 08:14 PM

Quote:

Now there's an idea! Room for a heat sink that can't be seen as well.

how about using a broken 404 bc box,theres a big heat sink

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/04/12 10:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Now there's an idea! Room for a heat sink that can't be seen as well.

how about using a broken 404 bc box,theres a big heat sink

what is a 404bc box ?

I want to use the cast the stock electronics come in that way you can just plug it right back into the harness .

I need to figure out to melt the potting out of one of these things , I can whip together something over the weekend .

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/05/12 01:43 AM

In this case acetone is your friend. Pour it on the resine, and let it sit for about 1/2 hour. Now the fun part, it should soften up enough to remove it (should be like scooping out cold tar). Do as much as you can and repeat. When you strike electronics, use picks or simular.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/05/12 03:00 AM

For you guys that care to check it out,I had my hands on a Rev N Nator box for some independant testing on my dyno today. I posted the results in the new products post about it.
Keith

Posted By: Wheeler

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/07/12 02:29 AM

Just out of curiosity - has anyone tried the Standard LX101 ignition box? I heard/read from several sources that it was one of the best aftermarket ignition boxes you can buy for Mopars.

Don at FBO said the LX101 box was great until Standard products started manufacturing it overseas. Not sure if this is true?

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/07/12 02:41 AM

Quote:

Just out of curiosity - has anyone tried the Standard LX101 ignition box? I heard/read from several sources that it was one of the best aftermarket ignition boxes you can buy for Mopars.

Don at FBO said the LX101 box was great until Standard products started manufacturing it overseas. Not sure if this is true?

We have had good luck with the LX-101 it holds up pretty well, the LX-101T (cheaper version) is questionable....

Just my $0.02...

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/07/12 03:24 AM

I will have to see if I have a box from Standard or not. I tried a Wells box and it pretty much died around 4000 rpm

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/21/12 04:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm toying with sticking one of those inside an orange box so it will plug into the factory harness . easier to just swap that out and it can be bought ANYWHERE.

I finally started this project yeasterday , Meliting the potting out of it is taking longer than I hoped . I just bought a generic replacement from Vatozone and a friend supplied a parts store replacement ECU for the holder.

If this works out I will look into putting an MSD brain in it .

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/21/12 08:15 PM

Quote:

Vatozone

Posted By: DusterKrazy

Re: Another dead orange box. - 05/21/12 09:52 PM

Quote:

The one thing I learned about those boxes is to have them mounted with the factory spacer that came on 75' & later Charger Brougham's. Its a cad plated piece, makes a -|__|- design....if that box overheats, the insides go melty melty...ever had the back of those things (insulation) melt and run down your firewall? Its not a pretty sight. I had a Chrome Box on my Dart for 5 years and nothing went wrong with it, I just wised up and put an MSD before I became a victim of the failure on one of my long trips.

Can somebody post a pic of that mounting bracket??

Posted By: cuda-sweden

Re: Another dead orange box. - 10/26/13 08:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now there's an idea! Room for a heat sink that can't be seen as well.

how about using a broken 404 bc box,theres a big heat sink

what is a 404bc box ?

I want to use the cast the stock electronics come in that way you can just plug it right back into the harness .

I need to figure out to melt the potting out of one of these things , I can whip together something over the weekend .

hej,i think it was the first mopar plug in box made by autotronics/msd. gold colored with big cooling fins.then came the 5c 6c 7c boxes,as far as i know

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Another dead orange box. - 10/26/13 08:48 PM

Quote:

Don at FBO said the LX101 box was great until Standard products started manufacturing it overseas. Not sure if this is true?

I bought one a month ago & it said Made in china in big bold letters on it (so I bought 2 of em to have a spare). EDIT iirc the 404 box that had the pentastar connector did not have the same wiring schematic as normal ECU's do. It'd plug in but either not work or fry something

Posted By: mosweethemi

Re: Another dead orange box. - 10/27/13 03:36 AM

Hello I had a orange box on my Hemi car for over 11 years. It got hard to start so last year after Carlisle .I put a new one in made USA and only had my car out two times this year and two week ends ago in line for the car show and my Hemi car will not start again at all. Went to a parts store and got a chep.o and put it in and it started right up. I got a new one made in the USA off of eBay for $10.00. have not put it on my Hemi car .Got mine under the battery box so it will stay cool I think. MSD on my pro street Duster,

Posted By: SattyNoCar

Re: Another dead orange box. - 10/27/13 04:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The one thing I learned about those boxes is to have them mounted with the factory spacer that came on 75' & later Charger Brougham's. Its a cad plated piece, makes a -|__|- design....if that box overheats, the insides go melty melty...ever had the back of those things (insulation) melt and run down your firewall? Its not a pretty sight. I had a Chrome Box on my Dart for 5 years and nothing went wrong with it, I just wised up and put an MSD before I became a victim of the failure on one of my long trips.

Can somebody post a pic of that mounting bracket??

Pic courtesy of Classic Industries