Moparts

Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO?

Posted By: nutso suave

Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/28/12 02:00 AM

here is the question...should you put slapper bars on a mopar? i was laughed out of the forum 5 years ago when i asked this question, but since then several drag racers have told me that traction bars work better than adjustable pinion snubbers. what is the consensus here?

if i was going to add a set, i'd use these ansen ground grabbers:



Attached picture 7182425-ansen2.jpg
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/28/12 02:22 AM

Well I added a set to my XHD springs and well...the 60 foot was worse, but I had some other issues as well so I'm not sure I want to blame it all on them yet. They get one more chance and they wil come off. Right at th etrack as a matter of fact.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/28/12 02:46 AM

Well I think the answer is "relative".

Mopar always claimed that their springs were biased side to side and the muscle cars had longer front segments to minimize wind-up. Fine - for the stock tires!

But as soon as you stuck some different rubber on the rear that changed things. Now you had the option of a s/s spring, an adjustable snubber or both.

Let's face it, a) the springs weren't cheap and b) the snubber was either "on" or "off", meaning to make it plant the tires it pretty much had to be touching the floor and that gave you a lousy ride if you left it there.

The slapper bars were a different animal, relatively inexpensive and they could be "tuned" such that they wouldn't do anything until you "got on it" and the springs started to wind up.

So my opinion is if they work for your Mopar, they belong on it.
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/28/12 02:49 AM

Not no.......but HELL NO!

Springs, shocks, pinion angle, drive height, weight transfer, tire compound, etc, etc.

But not slappers.

And, to be honest, the only thing that pinion snubbers ever did for me was stop the rear U-joint from being twisted out when I had poor rear set-ups way back when.
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 02:25 AM

If your springs a set up properly, the body will seperate from the axle, or rise, and snubber and/or slappers are rendered useless.

Slappers typically hit the leafs just aft of the main eye, right in the weakest part of the spring. If the are doing that, good chance your going to bend your main leaf as it trys to lever the car's body up. Think of it this way, would you use a floor jack in this spot? That's what slappers are doing.
Posted By: feets

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 02:49 AM

I get between 4 and 5 inches of lift out of my rear springs. The snubber does not contact the floor.

I certainly don't need slappers.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 01:00 PM

Quote:

but since then several drag racers have told me that traction bars work better than adjustable pinion snubbers.




CalTrac's obviously work and they are slapper bars that were refined to a fully functioning level. The "poor man's 4-Link" as one could say. They basically reapply the wind-up forces into a downward motion for the axle.

And one of the reasons the old Direct Connection manuals pumped up the P-snubber and rejected the slapper bars was to sell their own product.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 04:14 PM

Quote:

If your springs a set up properly, the body will seperate from the axle, or rise, and snubber and/or slappers are rendered useless.

Slappers typically hit the leafs just aft of the main eye, right in the weakest part of the spring. If the are doing that, good chance your going to bend your main leaf as it trys to lever the car's body up. Think of it this way, would you use a floor jack in this spot? That's what slappers are doing.



traction bars should be pushed forward up under the leaf spring mount, not under the spring itself.
Posted By: Golden-Arm

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 04:48 PM

caltracs, the "hi-tech" slapper bar. they do what they are supposed to do. so does the pinion snubber, if your ride isnt jacked to the sky.
Posted By: Leadfoot

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 05:24 PM

All traction bars do is control any wheel hop issues you may have. Pinion snubbers do the same thing. They keep the pinion from walking up the ring gear.
Like this:

Traction bars stop it and snubbers stop it. One stops it from the center and one stops it from the outside. The reason traction bars are frowned on in the Mopar ranks is because Mopar sells a snubber. Reason two is that a lot of traction bars are built for Brand X and therefore extend beyond the front shackle. In fact a lot of traction bars are 21 inches or better but the front spring segment is 20 inches for A-Body and as long as 24 inches for the Barges. I believe Mopar Performance also sold clamps for the front spring segments to stiffen the front segment up. So yes. If you're getting wheel hop then traction bars can and will work. The only thing about traction bars is that some of "Those Guys" have been known to twist their housing on launch.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:06 PM

Quote:

All traction bars do is control any wheel hop issues you may have. Pinion snubbers do the same thing. They keep the pinion from walking up the ring gear.
Like this:

Traction bars stop it and snubbers stop it. One stops it from the center and one stops it from the outside. The reason traction bars are frowned on in the Mopar ranks is because Mopar sells a snubber. Reason two is that a lot of traction bars are built for Brand X and therefore extend beyond the front shackle. In fact a lot of traction bars are 21 inches or better but the front spring segment is 20 inches for A-Body and as long as 24 inches for the Barges. I believe Mopar Performance also sold clamps for the front spring segments to stiffen the front segment up. So yes. If you're getting wheel hop then traction bars can and will work. The only thing about traction bars is that some of "Those Guys" have been known to twist their housing on launch.



Your graphic is bassackwards in direction
Posted By: Leadfoot

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:10 PM

I didn't really even notice that. I copied it off the internet without paying attention to the arrows. I just assumed they were made to advance to the next screen as part of a slide presentation or something like that. I wonder how many people now have their traction bars sticking out the back thanks to me.
Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

All traction bars do is control any wheel hop issues you may have. Pinion snubbers do the same thing. They keep the pinion from walking up the ring gear.
Like this:

Traction bars stop it and snubbers stop it. One stops it from the center and one stops it from the outside. The reason traction bars are frowned on in the Mopar ranks is because Mopar sells a snubber. Reason two is that a lot of traction bars are built for Brand X and therefore extend beyond the front shackle. In fact a lot of traction bars are 21 inches or better but the front spring segment is 20 inches for A-Body and as long as 24 inches for the Barges. I believe Mopar Performance also sold clamps for the front spring segments to stiffen the front segment up. So yes. If you're getting wheel hop then traction bars can and will work. The only thing about traction bars is that some of "Those Guys" have been known to twist their housing on launch.



Your graphic is bassackwards in direction



You sure about that? It looks like the front of the car would be to the right of the graphic (we're looking at the right side of the car in the diagram), the rear leaf spring shackle is on the left side of the graphic, at the back of the car.. it looks like the tire is rotating clockwise, moving the car forwards... looks correct to me.
Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

All traction bars do is control any wheel hop issues you may have. Pinion snubbers do the same thing. They keep the pinion from walking up the ring gear.
Like this:

Traction bars stop it and snubbers stop it. One stops it from the center and one stops it from the outside. The reason traction bars are frowned on in the Mopar ranks is because Mopar sells a snubber. Reason two is that a lot of traction bars are built for Brand X and therefore extend beyond the front shackle. In fact a lot of traction bars are 21 inches or better but the front spring segment is 20 inches for A-Body and as long as 24 inches for the Barges. I believe Mopar Performance also sold clamps for the front spring segments to stiffen the front segment up. So yes. If you're getting wheel hop then traction bars can and will work. The only thing about traction bars is that some of "Those Guys" have been known to twist their housing on launch.



Your graphic is bassackwards in direction



You sure about that? It looks like the front of the car would be to the right of the graphic (we're looking at the right side of the car in the diagram), the rear leaf spring shackle is on the left side of the graphic, at the back of the car.. it looks like the tire is rotating clockwise, moving the car forwards... looks correct to me.



Wrong! When you look at this picture, the pinion is going towards the ground, that is the opposite of what happens. When you accelerate the pinion will go in the opposite direction, or up.
Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:31 PM

D'oh, good point.. they have the rotational twisting effect going in the wrong direction !
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 07:45 PM

Tire direction is OK, pinion deflection direction wrong, spring wrap/movement is opposite what is shown... other than most everything backwards it's a great diagram.

On a well set up leaf spring car, a pinion snubber is a band aid at best. Great for propping the door of the shop open for a breeze. Clamp the snot out of the front segments and the snubber isn't even needed.
Posted By: Reggie

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 04/29/12 08:30 PM

Found this on the web and tweaked it a bit.....

Attached picture 7184601-AxleWrapUnderAcceleration.jpg
Posted By: nutso suave

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 02:12 AM

Thanks for the info...sounds like it is a bad idea.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 01:36 PM

I use a south side machine lift bar thats for an A-body mopar(I have the A-body 8 3/4 on top of the mono-leaf spring with a shackle flip in the 88 440 truck),looks like a traction bar but replaces the shock plate and clamps to the leaf spring in the same spot caltracs does,just behind the front spring eye.

it lifts the back of my truck about 4-5 inches and plants the tires on the launch.

I dont mind the snickers about the traction bars on a mopar thing,it works for me,with out them it goes up in smoke and has some wheel hop with 12" rim and a 29x15x15 M/Ts that is not good.

with the lift bars it hooks out the hole and no spin or hop from the alxe.

i would run the ansen ground grabbers or ssm lift bars not the cheap autozone/lakewood slapper bars for chebbys

run what ya brung
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 01:48 PM

Quote:

I use a south side machine lift bar thats for an A-body mopar(I have the A-body 8 3/4 on top of the mono-leaf spring with a shackle flip in the 88 440 truck),looks like a traction bar but replaces the shock plate and clamps to the leaf spring in the same spot caltracs does,just behind the front spring eye.

it lifts the back of my truck about 4-5 inches and plants the tires on the launch.

I dont mind the snickers about the traction bars on a mopar thing,it works for me,with out them it goes up in smoke and has some wheel hop with 12" rim and a 29x15x15 M/Ts that is not good.

with the lift bars it hooks out the hole and no spin or hop from the alxe.

i would run the ansen ground grabbers or ssm lift bars not the cheap autozone/lakewood slapper bars for chebbys

run what ya brung



those SSM lift bars are great. ran them on an old 68 Dart. They do make the ride a tad rough... I was thinking of trying them on the Charger as they are a lot cheaper then Cal-Tracs
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 03:50 PM

Quote:


traction bars should be pushed forward up under the leaf spring mount, not under the spring itself.



The operative and key word here is SHOULD. Since most slapper bars are sold for GM F bodies, they tend to be sold in lengths that bolt directly on to these cars. Sticking them under a mopar means they end up in some position other than the optimal. Now, I don't doubt that back in teh day some manufacturer somewhere had taken the time to measure and layout a set up that would work properly with differing mopar applications, but my bet is that most have not and do not take that into consideration and most of these are sold as a universal application.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 03:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:


traction bars should be pushed forward up under the leaf spring mount, not under the spring itself.



The operative and key word here is SHOULD. Since most slapper bars are sold for GM F bodies, they tend to be sold in lengths that bolt directly on to these cars. Sticking them under a mopar means they end up in some position other than the optimal. Now, I don't doubt that back in teh day some manufacturer somewhere had taken the time to measure and layout a set up that would work properly with differing mopar applications, but my bet is that most have not and do not take that into consideration and most of these are sold as a universal application.



You can get direct fit units...they are 3-4x the cost of the uni's.
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/01/12 04:57 PM

That doesn't surprise me.

So I guess the question for the OP is are you willing to pony up the $$ for the correct style slappers or are you looking to make your $20 swap meet scored units fit?

Another reason to not like slappers, their low hanging position makes them susceptible to speed bump damage. Hit one of these at speed, and you could really mess up some stuff under your car.

Personally, I'd try adding clamps to my front segment before going to a set of slappers. I'd even try adding more leafs or half leafs before going slappers.
Posted By: nutso suave

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/02/12 06:54 AM

i was thinking of adding some period correct ansen ground grabbers.
Posted By: cudaboone

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 03:10 PM

I put a set of caltracs on my 72 cuda yesterday. Don't know if they help anything but they sure look tough. Pinion snubber was beating a hole in my floor pan and that's the real reason i put them on. Biggest problem was pushing out the old bushing.
Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 03:23 PM

Care must be taken when selecting traction bars. Make sure they don't contact the ground when a rear tire goes flat. Bad things WILL happen. DAMHIK.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 04:17 PM

I would never use traction bars because a: they look stupid and b: they look way too GM to me (sorta like cowl hoods! )

In any case, I think an adjustable snubber or proper spring setup does the trick just fine. I've owned dozens of GM cars and the main reason for the traction bars were the very weak stock springs compared to a Mopar HD setup.


Dave
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 04:22 PM

i am going to reinstall my cheap lkwd bars at some point and with the u bolts it can be moved to hit the spring eye and is not locked on to the axle pad.give it a shot if you have the $$ but most of all do what you want. do you have any video of the car launching?
Posted By: 383man

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 04:39 PM

I would not use traction bars on a Mopar. I dont use anything other then SS springs that are clamped in the front. Not the greatest 60 but it has pulled a 1.50 on old slicks. Ron
Posted By: patrick

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/03/12 05:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

but since then several drag racers have told me that traction bars work better than adjustable pinion snubbers.




CalTrac's obviously work and they are slapper bars that were refined to a fully functioning level. The "poor man's 4-Link" as one could say. They basically reapply the wind-up forces into a downward motion for the axle.

And one of the reasons the old Direct Connection manuals pumped up the P-snubber and rejected the slapper bars was to sell their own product.



the mopar spring design with the assymetrical leafs (short front segment, long rear segment) are basically a leaf spring trying to be a ladder bar. in theory, the front segment is essentially rigid (especially if the leaves are clamped), and all of the flex is in the rear segment.

a cal-trac is a better version of the same thing. it replaces the spring pack usually with a single spring, where the front segment isn't as stiff as the stock one), and uses the bars as the link to locate the axle relative to the body.

traction bars/slapper bars are used to control axle wind-up in symmetrical/long front segment springs. they typically aren't clamped to the front of the spring, but are designed to make contact with spring wind up (hence "slapper bars". being clamped to the springs, cal-tracks are a totally different animal, they basically turn a mopar leaf spring setup into a quasi leaf sprung ladder bar setup. a true leaf sprung ladder bar setup would have the ladder bar pivoting on the body, and shackles front AND rear on the leaf spring.

my boss actually designed and built a leaf sprung 4 link setup for his trail wrangler.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/04/12 07:27 PM

i had slappers on a 340 duster that worked GREAT. the only reason i removed them was a peace officer took exception to them. he said (and this is the absolute truth), "they're too low. you'll get a flat tire, the bar will dig in to the pavement, you'll lose control, and be killed." ok.
Posted By: MadMez

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/05/12 02:06 AM

I had traction bars on my Challenger. I swapped in a 340 and four speed in place of the 318 automatic. It wheel hopped like crazy before I put them on. Also with slicks at the track it would just dead hook from 4500 rpm. My car had the soft 318 suspension so it needed something and the traction bars were free.
Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/05/12 02:10 AM

Quote:

i had slappers on a 340 duster that worked GREAT. the only reason i removed them was a peace officer took exception to them. he said (and this is the absolute truth), "they're too low. you'll get a flat tire, the bar will dig in to the pavement, you'll lose control, and be killed." ok.


Thats exactly what happened to me.. minus the getting killed part
Posted By: cudaboone

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/05/12 03:35 PM

No problem on my cuda. bracket is about even with the bottom of the rim. So the pavement will slightly hit the rim before the caltrac bracket. That would be after the tire shreds from the rim. Am going for the mono leaf springs and shock when i get the moola. Now have hemi rear leaf springs.
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/05/12 07:37 PM

I went with the Cal-trak system and picked up 4 tenthes over the worn out s/s springs.They adjust so the launch stays straight.I have not tried preload yet because I'm so inconsistant.Maybe this year with the right carbs on it now I can really fine tune the rear suspension.

Attached picture 7193540-2009-04-25-1548-32.jpg
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/06/12 07:20 AM

First, I think traction bars are meant to be used INSTEAD of Super Stock springs, not WITH them. The whole purpose of the extra leaves in the SS springs is to stiffen (and in some cases shorten) the front segment to try to reduce wrap-up/wheel hop, which they do at the expense of ride quality. Clamping the front segments along with the use of properly installed traction bars will eliminate wheel hop and increase traction without stiffening the ride.

As to the snubber, while it does a limited job of eliminating front segment wrap-up, especially if the front segments are clamped, they do NOTHING to prevent the axle rotation from trying to pick up the passenger side tire. This is not the ring gear trying to climb the pinion; this is the ring gear trying to rotate around the pinion, which tries to pick up the passenger tire ( the reason why open carriers always spin only the right tire). Slapper bars can be pre-loaded to give more lift to the passenger side.

Slapper bars got a bad reputation from poor installations and a lack of knowledge about suspension engineering - pure and simple. With a little work they can do a fantastic job of stopping wheel hop and enhancing traction.
Posted By: goldmember

Re: Final Showdown: traction bars - YES or NO? - 05/06/12 08:14 AM

Lots of options,but YES traction bars can work well on a mopar. I have used the south side machine bars for years on a low 10's 130mph car and even a high 10's 123mph street pick up truck. You could build your own or buy a set off ebay for a few $$ and with a bit of shock tuning you'd be set. There are other good choices but for a bang for the buck setup they can be very effective.

Attached picture 7194303-hoodspring288.jpg
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