Moparts
All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help
Posted By: 73rrak
All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 04:46 AM
I bent all of my intake push rods on my new 440 on start up / break in. Besides all of the push rods do I need to replace cam and lifters ? Or could they have survived. What else could be damaged ? any way to measure for correct push rod length with intake still on ? I'm using a Hughes whiplash cam with hydraulic lifters and stock rockers and shafts.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 05:06 AM
i would be looking at why they bent,did they hit the piston?
i bet they have some eyebrows in them now
did the pistons have valve notches?
are the in the hole the correct way for the VN to line up with valves?
has it been decked or heads shaved?
did it make the cam break in or part way thru?
did you have any rocker to retainer problems?
did you check valve seal boss and retainer clearance for the lift on the whiplash?
did you check valve to piston clearances?
did you check the exhast PR to see if they are bent?
you may want to pull the heads to make sure no bent valves or binding in the guides.
lots to check IMHO
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 05:09 AM
To bend all the pushrods, either your valves hit the pistons or you hit valve spring coil bind. Did you use hughes recommended valve springs and spring install height? Did you trim down the valve guides? I think the stock valve guides are too tall for much lift. As much as you don't want to hear this, you have have to pull the heads.
Posted By: 64Post
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 05:53 AM
Did you turn the engine over by hand a couple, three or four times before starting?
I might pull all the push rods first and try to borrow and install a checking push rod then turn the engine over by hand to see if you can isolate the problem. Depending on how fast you shut it down, the least of your problems would probably be coil bind.
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:06 AM
I'm sorry to hear this, as I can immagine how deflating this must be when hoping to hear a new motor fire to life. Bummer!
You definately have to completely disassemble the motor and identify exactly what happened. If the valves hit the pistons, as I'm sure you'll find, You'll want to look closely at rod bearings as well as the camshaft intake lobes. Rocker gear... everything needs to be closely inspected. You'll want to take the heads to a shop to see if you've damaged the valve's and guides as well. Just a guess, but I'm willing to wager that the pistons were installed backwards.
Best wishes, man. you'll get it figured out, and be wiser for it.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 07:46 AM
The heads were cut 10 and the block was cut 30 but it had steel shim head gaskets and I put composite gaskets in so they should have made up at least 20. I do remember the guy from the machine shop that put the motor together say that he put the pistons in backwards for some reason but I can't remember why.
I have an inspection camera that I will stuff in a spark plug hole in the morning It's new and the batteries need to charge over night. Once I know if the valves hit the pistons or not and whether this motor needs to come out and apart I will make a decision of what I want to do.
I may end up walking away from this project this car is friggin possessed I think I know now why this car sat in a field for 15 years and only has 50,075 miles on it........ it's possessed. I've been calling this car "Enitsirhc" Christine spelled backwards because it doesn't fix itself it keeps breaking itself. Everything on this car has had to be done twice and it hasn't even left the garage yet.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 08:41 AM
If he intentionally put the pistons in backwards, it sounds like you have a set of stock type flat top pistons? Flat with no valve reliefs?
Don't give up on it when you're this close. It was likely just one stupid mistake that put you in this position. Show it who's boss by making it work!
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 11:43 AM
Yes, I'm very interested to see what it was. You are this close. If nothing else, it will be a valuable learning experience.
Sorry for the trouble though, I've had cars like that. Very frustrating.
Posted By: 6PakBee
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 12:19 PM
Quote:
......I do remember the guy from the machine shop that put the motor together say that he put the pistons in backwards for some reason but I can't remember why......
Probably trying to get rid of the stock piston pin offset.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 01:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
......I do remember the guy from the machine shop that put the motor together say that he put the pistons in backwards for some reason but I can't remember why......
Probably trying to get rid of the stock piston pin offset.
thats the only reason i can think of doing it
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 02:10 PM
I feel your pain. I never thought I'd get this thing to the track, one thing after another, 2 engines and a trans and everything on the car is NEW.
As mentioned to bend t hem all they probably either hit the pistons or the springs weren't set right. The heads will have to come off and checked out. You'll probably wantto drop t he pan and see if you have any metal in it. If you do I'd swap out the oil pump and wash down the returns really good. Hopefully you didn't wipe the cam and/or mushroom the lifters.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 02:46 PM
Don't give up hope. take a step back, do what it takes to get it right.
know that there will be some hard work to do, but in the end, it will be worth it.
I'm fighting a stupid bone stock rebuild of a magnum 318 that's kicking my butt right now. thought it was done and ready to go, but it had all kinds of valve clatter. So far, I think the cam is advanced because the dots on the cam gear were wrong, and the lifters had too much pre-load because the heads were shaved. got the degree wheel on it now, and will be going slow and steady till it's right.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 04:28 PM
I vote for either spring bind or retainer-to-valve stem seal/guide collision.
Putting the pistons in backwards is an old stock drag racer trick that seems to give a little extra power but no one can agree on why it works. If the pins were offset the standard 0.060, then turning them around moves the piston pin nearly 1/8 inch. One explanation is that when the crankkpin is at 12:00, the connecting rod already has a little angle. Others dispute this and say it's because the piston is at TDC either earlier or longer. Most high performance pistons have zero pin offset so it's a moot point.
The reason the pins are offset in the first place is because it quiets piston slap so the engine runs "smoother".
A competent engine builder should put the pistons in so any valve pockets are in the right location for the head even if he "puts them in backward". I don't think you'll find your problem there.
R.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 04:46 PM
The funny part of this is .... My father in law who's not much of a car guy called me Sunday and asked me to wait until Monday to start the car for the first time because he wanted to watch. I told him I had to start it Sunday because with the history of this car I will need Monday to pull the motor back out. It was kind of funny Sunday but it's not so funny today.I'm getting ready to stick a camera down a cylinder to see how much damage I have.... I will let you guys know in a few.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 05:17 PM
Ok I just looked down one of the cylinders with a bent push rod. I can't see any evidence that a valve hit a piston. The pistons have 4 valve reliefs in them so maybe I got lucky. Do any of the chain parts stores carry a length checking push rod ? or does anybody have a picture of a home made one ? I have plenty of push rod parts to make one out of ... hahhahahah
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:17 PM
Quote:
I have plenty of push rod parts to make one out of ... hahhahahah
At least you can laugh about it!
Autozone says they carry it...but it's special order.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...fier=86110_0_0_
I thought about making one out of two pieces of 3/8" threaded rod (or smooth rod and thread them) and a coupler nut in between for the adjustment. You can use a jam nut against the coupler to hold it once you get the length.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:27 PM
Quote:
Ok I just looked down one of the cylinders with a bent push rod. I can't see any evidence that a valve hit a piston. The pistons have 4 valve reliefs in them so maybe I got lucky. Do any of the chain parts stores carry a length checking push rod ? or does anybody have a picture of a home made one ? I have plenty of push rod parts to make one out of ... hahhahahah
You need to yank the heads, and check the cam. Since it was running before the destruction I'm going to guess you wiped the cam 1st... AMHIK. At least your piston didn't look like this.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:29 PM
I don't think pushrod length was your problem. If you had a solid cam, then maybe. When the engine was turned off, and before you bent the intake pushrods, were any of the rockers loose? With the lifters bled down and some of the intake valves closed, those rockers should have some play, as in you can wiggle them a bit by hand.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:34 PM
i would be looking at why they bent,did they hit the piston?...... No I looked down the bore with an inspection camera and saw 4 valve reliefs and no evidence of damage from valves touching them
i bet they have some eyebrows in them now .... no see above
did the pistons have valve notches?...... yes 4 on each piston
are the in the hole the correct way for the VN to line up with valves? ...... The pistons are in backwards but they have 4 valve reliefs in them
has it been decked or heads shaved? ...... Yes the heads were shaved 10 and the block was shaved 30 ... The motor had steel shim head gaskets and now has composite
did it make the cam break in or part way thru? ....... yes at least 20 minutes
did you have any rocker to retainer problems? No
did you check valve seal boss and retainer clearance for the lift on the whiplash?.... No
did you check valve to piston clearances? ..... no
did you check the exhast PR to see if they are bent? .... No but I will
you may want to pull the heads to make sure no bent valves or binding in the guide ......
The machine shop checked the part numbers for the springs and said they have 1.800 installed height and are good for .600 lift. The cam info is below. My intake rockers are stamped ( + I72 ) and my Exh rockers are stamped ( +I71 ) can anybody tell me what ratio these are from these numbers ?
Camshaft Technical Details
Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .518"
.518"
Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .552"
.552"
Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 232°
245°
Lobe Separation Angle 107º
Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 14° BTC
54.5° BBC
Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 38° ABC
10.5° ATC
Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI
Sweet Spot RPM 1800-5200
Posted By: 64Post
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 06:35 PM
Deleted...
Posted By: cjs69mope
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 08:09 PM
Liquid fuel running down into the cylinders due to stuck floats can cause hydraulic lock and bend the the push rods if enough liquid was in the cylinders. I have also seen bent rods from this type of engine flooding also. that is why i never start a new motor with a used carb unless it was running the day before on my own stuff.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 09:37 PM
Quote:
Ok I just looked down one of the cylinders with a bent push rod. I can't see any evidence that a valve hit a piston. The pistons have 4 valve reliefs in them so maybe I got lucky. Do any of the chain parts stores carry a length checking push rod ? or does anybody have a picture of a home made one ? I have plenty of push rod parts to make one out of ... hahhahahah
if you have a hollow pushrod you can make a checker , just cut an inch or so out of the pushrod and tap the inside for 1/4-28 and get 2 nuts and a length of 1/4-28 threaded rod .
Posted By: B1duster
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 10:31 PM
Did it start and run ? Did it die right after starting , seconds, minutes ???
Posted By: 64Post
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/07/12 11:09 PM
Quote:
Did it start and run ? Did it die right after starting , seconds, minutes ???
He finally posted that it ran 20 minutes. That changes things a bit...
I was under the initial impression it only ran for a few seconds.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 12:10 AM
Wow !!! I'm sorry I didn't realize that I did that.... Yes it did run for about 20 minutes then it started sounding like it had a fouled plug and it started again the next day after I replaced the plugs but still ran like crap. Here's link to the post that lead up to me finding out that the push rods were bent.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7057485
Posted By: dogdays
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 12:33 AM
You said stock rockers and shafts. stock rocker ratio is 1.5 if you are lucky, most are less. Also this means you couldn't have adjusted the valves wrong because no adjusters on the stock rockers.
Your valve lift is just a hair over 0.500 inch. Your springs are good to 0.600 lift IF (and only if) they are set up for installed height of 1.800". But that info comes off the spring box. Was the installed height measured?
I seem to remember stock bigblock heads having a shorter installed height than that.
I keep coming back to either coil bind or retainer running into the valve guide/stem seal. Your seeing no indication of collisions on the piston tops, and the fact that you haven't told us all the intake valves are leaking because they're bent, leads me to think it wasn't valve/piston interference. So what else could it be? Best answer lies on top of your heads.
R.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 12:56 AM
I'm making a push rod length checker now. I'm hoping that my pushrods were just too long and caused the problem.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 01:05 AM
Quote:
I'm making a push rod length checker now. I'm hoping that my pushrods were just too long and caused the problem.
when it was runnig for 20 minutes was it a clicky clackety mess? did it run ok? if they were too long you probably wiped the cam. Have you drained the oil yet? Drain it and toss a magnet in it, then pull it out. Or if you have a magnetic drain plug..well you'll know when you pull it out and it looks like Beaker from the Muppets.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 01:09 AM
It seems to me if the push rods were too long, it wouldn't have run good for 20 minutes. I would think it would go south within seconds...
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 01:15 AM
It was a little noisy but not real bad .... it was after break in and after it started sounding like it fouled a plug that #1 started clattering which made me go look at oil pressure but it was ok. The clatter from #1 made me think that it was #1 that had the fouled plug.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 01:27 AM
might of fouled from being hung open???
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 01:29 AM
Quote:
Best answer lies on top of your heads.
What I was thinking, intake stem to guide clearance but not sure how they got the intakes too tight & not the ex (which run hotter). keep us abreast. Been thinking of a borescope, do they show a clear shot? NO P/V touching right? Just before I hit the OK submit button it hit me that I bet there was a collision
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:08 AM
Yea I had a clear shot of the piston and there is definitely no damage on the piston at all. I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder. I'm in the process of trying to get my camera out of the cylinder with my old borescope. so I've been looking at this piston for the last hour or 2 and it has no damage on it . Man I should have taken up gardening. Hhahahah
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:16 AM
Quote:
I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder. I'm in the process of trying to get my camera out of the cylinder with my old borescope.
Holy crap! Are you freaking kidding me??!! Lucky your fingers / arms weren't near anything. Man, this is just a bad time, you can't make this stuff up!. Good example why disconnecting the battery is a good idea. But cripes, you shouldn't have to worry about that type of hazard. 
Posted By: StukaJU87
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:16 AM
Quote:
I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder.
Sorry to laugh, but that is funny.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:19 AM
it's not your pushrods. I'd almost guarantee it.
if the pushrods were too long, then you'd have lifters bottomed out and hanging valves open.
who's valve springs are they? Hughes recommends their own springs/retainers to run with their cams, especially with the whiplash cams.
put a good pushrod into the valve train, and slowly crank the engine over by hand, again and again, let us know what you find. does it crank over smoohtly the whole way? do you feel anything binding up? can you visually inspect the valvespring/valves to ensure the coils are not binding up or the retainer hitting the valve guide?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder. I'm in the process of trying to get my camera out of the cylinder with my old borescope.
Holy crap! Are you freaking kidding me??!! Lucky your fingers / arms weren't near anything. Man, this is just a bad time.
Wow! bummer. Sorry it made me laugh a little. Gardening ain't bad.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:34 AM
Quote:
Yea I had a clear shot of the piston and there is definitely no damage on the piston at all. I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder. I'm in the process of trying to get my camera out of the cylinder with my old borescope. so I've been looking at this piston for the last hour or 2 and it has no damage on it . Man I should have taken up gardening. Hhahahah
I admire you for being able to laugh. Wow.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:34 AM
That's how this whole project has gone so it was no real surprise to me. I'm telling you this car is possessed. 2 weeks ago I jacked up the front of the car to purge the air out of the motor. I was going to the back of the car to put gas in it getting ready to start it for the first time and it fell off the jack. It took out the billet aluminum crank pulley, Radiator, aluminum fan shroud, electric fan and the tranny cooler lines. I have never had a car even come close to falling off of a jack before this car. Just about everything on this car has had to be done twice. Things I've done dozens of times on other cars have to be done twice on this car. I was thinking of putting a cross in it but I'm afraid it will burn my house down ..... Hhahahhahhaha
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:44 AM
Quote:
it's not your pushrods. I'd almost guarantee it.
if the pushrods were too long, then you'd have lifters bottomed out and hanging valves open.
who's valve springs are they? Hughes recommends their own springs/retainers to run with their cams, especially with the whiplash cams.
put a good pushrod into the valve train, and slowly crank the engine over by hand, again and again, let us know what you find. does it crank over smoohtly the whole way? do you feel anything binding up? can you visually inspect the valvespring/valves to ensure the coils are not binding up or the retainer hitting the valve guide?
I bought the whole Hughes setup.... Cam, lifters, springs and retainers. They told me that my springs would be fine because they only had 50,000 miles on them but I bought them anyway. I had them installed by a machine shop that has been doing work for me for years with no problems.
I think I will leave the camera in the cylinder and get the push rods checked and measured because it sounds like the heads are coming back off anyway.
Posted By: 67Monaco
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:49 AM
Quote:
That's how this whole project has gone so it was no real surprise to me. I'm telling you this car is possessed. 2 weeks ago I jacked up the front of the car to purge the air out of the motor. I was going to the back of the car to put gas in it getting ready to start it for the first time and it fell off the jack. It took out the billet aluminum crank pulley, Radiator, aluminum fan shroud, electric fan and the tranny cooler lines. I have never had a car even come close to falling off of a jack before this car. Just about everything on this car has had to be done twice. Things I've done dozens of times on other cars have to be done twice on this car. I was thinking of putting a cross in it but I'm afraid it will burn my house down ..... Hhahahhahhaha
You sure you wanna drive it if you ever get it done? I'd be concerned for personal safety..
Posted By: 4spdswinger340
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 02:51 AM
If you took .010 off the heads and .030 off of the blocks deck and are running thin .020 gaskets, you would have needed shorter push rods or shim your rocker shafts to compensate the difference. Otherwise you would have to much preload. I wouldn't think it would be enough to bend push rods but it wouldn't help matters if you did not. Did you do so?
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:01 AM
Quote:
If you took .010 off the heads and .030 off of the block you would have needed shorter push rods or shim your rocker shafts. Did you do so?
But he also said that he went back with a composite head gasket, vs the original shims, which adds most of that thickness right back in.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:03 AM
Quote:
If you took .010 off the heads and .030 off of the block you would have needed shorter push rods or shim your rocker shafts. Did you do so?
It had the steel shim head gasket from the factory and I put a composite head gasket on so the should have taken up .020 of the .040 that was cut from the block at least that's what I thought. I hope I was wrong and the problem is just push rods too long.... and maybe a ruined cam.
When I take this car for it's first drive I think I'll bring a priest with me and drive it to my enemies house park it in his driveway then have the priest do an exorcism on the car so all the evil and demons go to my enemies cars ...... hahhahahahha
Posted By: 4spdswinger340
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:08 AM
Had a buddy that bent a few pushrods in a 383 by milling the heads and installing a .509 cam @ the same time. He milled .070 off the heads and was running a .040 gasket. Only reason I mentioned it. His retainers were hitting the top of the valve seal. We changed the seals, bent push rods and then shimmed the rocker shafts and it is still running good 5 yrs later. Can you tell if the top of your seals are stove up?
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:09 AM
Quote:
Quote:
If you took .010 off the heads and .030 off of the block you would have needed shorter push rods or shim your rocker shafts. Did you do so?
It had the steel shim head gasket from the factory and I put a composite head gasket on so the should have taken up .020 of the .040 that was cut from the block at least that's what I thought. I hope I was wrong and the problem is just push rods too long.... and maybe a ruined cam.
When I take this car for it's first drive I think I'll bring a priest with me and drive it to my enemies house park it in his driveway then have the priest do an exorcism on the car so all the evil and demons go to my enemies cars ...... hahhahahahha
Or maybe have your enemy take it for the first drive
Posted By: 64Post
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:25 AM
Quote:
Quote:
it's not your pushrods. I'd almost guarantee it.
if the pushrods were too long, then you'd have lifters bottomed out and hanging valves open.
who's valve springs are they? Hughes recommends their own springs/retainers to run with their cams, especially with the whiplash cams.
put a good pushrod into the valve train, and slowly crank the engine over by hand, again and again, let us know what you find. does it crank over smoohtly the whole way? do you feel anything binding up? can you visually inspect the valvespring/valves to ensure the coils are not binding up or the retainer hitting the valve guide?
I bought the whole Hughes setup.... Cam, lifters, springs and retainers. They told me that my springs would be fine because they only had 50,000 miles on them but I bought them anyway. I had them installed by a machine shop that has been doing work for me for years with no problems.
I think I will leave the camera in the cylinder and get the push rods checked and measured because it sounds like the heads are coming back off anyway.
Please try to leave everything assembled. Leave the camera in for now and fab the push rod checker. When that's done work on getting the camera out. Bring that cylinder up close enough to TDC by hand to get the camera out. It sounds like the engine turns over ok since the kid bumped the starter. Then we'll go from there...
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 03:25 AM
I can't really see the seals through the springs but from the little glimpse I can get they look normal but I can't say for sure until I get the locks, retainers and springs off.
Posted By: smracing
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/08/12 04:53 AM
i would do a leak down test to check for bent valves before pulling the heads back off
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... update ! - 02/09/12 03:16 AM
Ok I got my push rod length checker made and these are the numbers I came up with :
Stock rod = 9.292
Rod checker results from lifter cup to rocker cup :
intake = 9.203
exhaust = 9.210
Is this enough to cause all of my intake push rods to bend. It doesn't look like a whole lot to me.
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 05:52 AM
I put up a new thread because it looks like this one died.
Posted By: Oyvind Mopar
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 11:55 AM
Sorry about your mishaps with the car. What car is it?
And for the pushrods: Maybe they are just too weak for the type of springs and cam. I have seen 5/16" hollow pushrods bent like spaghetti on a 440 with obviously too hard springs (for those rods). I have bent pushrods myself due to sticky valveguides (because of old gummy fuel)
My
Posted By: 73rrak
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 12:36 PM
The push rods are solid not hollow and the valves were cleaned and inspected when the new springs and locks were put on. The fuel system was clean and new fuel before fire up.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... update ! - 02/09/12 02:43 PM
Quote:
Ok I got my push rod length checker made and these are the numbers I came up with :
Stock rod = 9.292
Rod checker results from lifter cup to rocker cup :
intake = 9.203
exhaust = 9.210
Is this enough to cause all of my intake push rods to bend. It doesn't look like a whole lot to me.
Did the stock length pushrod bottom out the lifter ? If the pushrod were to long and bottomed out the lifter I don't think it would have run fine for 20 minutes .
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 02:53 PM
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The push rods are solid not hollow and the valves were cleaned and inspected when the new springs and locks were put on. The fuel system was clean and new fuel before fire up.
If I am reading this right all you did was change the springs and retainers ? if so your problem is the retainers probably hitting the tops of valve guides because that cam has a lot of lift , pull a spring and look at the stem seals , they should show evidence of being crushed between the retainer and the top of the guide .
Also a hollow pushrod is stronger than a solid one .
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 03:43 PM
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The push rods are solid not hollow and the valves were cleaned and inspected when the new springs and locks were put on. The fuel system was clean and new fuel before fire up.
If I am reading this right all you did was change the springs and retainers ? if so your problem is the retainers probably hitting the tops of valve guides because that cam has a lot of lift , pull a spring and low at the stem seals , they should show evidence of being crushed between the retainer and the top of the guide .
Also a hollow pushrod is stronger than a solid one .
John I think it ran for 20 minutes, then on the next re-start all the push rods bent. Remember he had a carb issue too. I think he wiped the cam then the push rods got hung up and bent.
73 Did you check the other bank? How do the ex push rods feel? Pull the dip stick and see how "sparkely" it is.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 03:51 PM
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Liquid fuel running down into the cylinders due to stuck floats can cause hydraulic lock and bend the the push rods if enough liquid was in the cylinders. I have also seen bent rods from this type of engine flooding also. that is why i never start a new motor with a used carb unless it was running the day before on my own stuff.
I have to say, if it ran ok for 20 minutes then bent the push rods on the next start up with nothing else changing other than a fuel issue, I would have to agree with this, unless it started running bad during the first start up but after the 20 minute break-in period. It's a little hard to tell, he has 3 threads going regarding this issue. 
I would imagine if it hydro-locked it may have bent a rod or two also.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 04:18 PM
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Liquid fuel running down into the cylinders due to stuck floats can cause hydraulic lock and bend the the push rods if enough liquid was in the cylinders. I have also seen bent rods from this type of engine flooding also. that is why i never start a new motor with a used carb unless it was running the day before on my own stuff.
I have to say, if it ran ok for 20 minutes then bent the push rods on the next start up with nothing else changing other than a fuel issue, I would have to agree with this, unless it started running bad during the first start up but after the 20 minute break-in period. It's a little hard to tell, he has 3 threads going regarding this issue.
I would imagine if it hydro-locked it may have bent a rod or two also.
gas isn't like water, if it sat over night the gas would be gone..he'd have to have a TON of gas flowing to do that wouldn't you think?
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 04:39 PM
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Liquid fuel running down into the cylinders due to stuck floats can cause hydraulic lock and bend the the push rods if enough liquid was in the cylinders. I have also seen bent rods from this type of engine flooding also. that is why i never start a new motor with a used carb unless it was running the day before on my own stuff.
I have to say, if it ran ok for 20 minutes then bent the push rods on the next start up with nothing else changing other than a fuel issue, I would have to agree with this, unless it started running bad during the first start up but after the 20 minute break-in period. It's a little hard to tell, he has 3 threads going regarding this issue.
I would imagine if it hydro-locked it may have bent a rod or two also.
gas isn't like water, if it sat over night the gas would be gone..he'd have to have a TON of gas flowing to do that wouldn't you think?
I didn't know it sat overnight before the next start up. It's a little hard to follow the exact sequence of events.
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 04:41 PM
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I didn't get to take a picture before my neighbors 10 year old son grabbed the remote start and pushed the button chopping my camera of in the cylinder.
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I think I will leave the camera in the cylinder and get the push rods checked and measured because it sounds like the heads are coming back off anyway.
Quick, take off the remote start and hide it so even you can't find it. 
I hate to make this sound like a broken record but you obviously have a clearance problem.
1. thats a lot of lift for stock length valve guides and stock pistons and not checking anything. Did you degree the cam? If it is advanced it will reduce Intake V-P clearance. The narrow lobe seperation angle will also reduce V-P clearance. http://www.compcams.com/technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp
2. a cam that big probably should not be using stock rockers, pushrods and springs no matter what Hughes may have told you.
3. since you have pistons with notches it might be difficult to see collision damage. If you are looking through the spark plug hole you are looking right at the wrong notches. The ones that might have damage will be facing away from plug hole.
I think you will be pulling the heads and maybe the pistons.
Posted By: 383man
Re: All of my intake push rods are bent ..... Help - 02/09/12 06:50 PM
I can tell you what I have seen before on the one bolt cams. I saw the cam bolt back out and the cam gear came off the keyway but was still slightly on the cam. Caused the valve timing to change and bent pushrods along with valves. Ron