Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 01:34 AM

I am interested in installing the SSBC rear disc kit in place of my factory drum brakes in the road runner. I was wondering if anyone has done this before and just how simple is it? I am asking as i have to do it in the driveway of my house and soon it's going to be raining so is it an easy one day project or not?

Also do i need any special tools of just the basic stuff we all have.
Thanks for any advice.
Stu

http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/detail/index.cfm?nPID=8568

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 01:42 AM

for Stu.
I used another kit and had to have the axle ends machined, brake hose tabs welded and other minor stuff.
I'll defer to others that have actually used THIS kit, but the consensus here seems to be the Dr. Diff kit.

If your luck is the same on this as it was for the 'bolt-in' transmission, make sure you have triple A to tow it to a shop!

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 01:44 AM

Quote:

for Stu.
I used another kit and had to have the axle ends machined, brake hose tabs welded and other minor stuff.
I'll defer to others that have actually used THIS kit, but the consensus here seems to be the Dr. Diff kit.

Hummn?? Sounds like more than just a few hours in the driveway swap.

Do you have a link for the Dr. Diff kit i can check out??

Thank you

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 01:46 AM

He's a member here, but I did a search and here's his current ebay listing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrysler-Mopar-8...rts_Accessories

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 01:55 AM

Quote:

He's a member here, but I did a search and here's his current ebay listing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrysler-Mopar-8...rts_Accessories

Thank you for taking the time to post that. Hopefully i will get some more input on the SSBC kit as i wanted to use the same company as when i did the front conversion.

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 02:02 AM

Anything for the garage door king and proprietor of the MPM clubhouse!
BTW, I got a BB shorty 727 trans. I may end up with a BB in the van...

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 02:16 AM

Quote:

BTW, I got a BB shorty 727 trans. I may end up with a BB in the van...

Right on!!

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 11:52 AM

That's the '85 Caddy Eldorado caliper kit. Master Power, etc., all use it because it simplifies the park brake deal. The calipers are kinda weird, but, you you follow the instructions, they DO work, although I don't know if I'd trust the PB in San Francisco!

I've had this setup on one car for almost 10 years with no problems.

Anything Dr. Diff sells is likely to be excellent, just don't swap to "Green" wheel bearings.

Also check scarebird.com

Rick

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 03:28 PM

I called SSBC just now and said the kit they sell uses parts from a 1988 Turbo Thunderbird.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 03:51 PM

Quote:

I called SSBC just now and said the kit they sell uses parts from a 1988 Turbo Thunderbird.

That's correct Stu,...SSBC rear disc kits are all that I use on my cars or customers cars,... Ford Thundercoupe rotors and calipers have always been the supplied componets in the kit, the rotors are redrilled to slip on the mopar axle studs, you'll need to remove the axles (naturally) the kit will have a spacer to replace the clearance lost by removing the drum backing plate, so no need to remove the thrust button if your doing an 8 3/4 axle, you will need to switch over to the GREEN Bearings, regardless of what the naysayers say, there's nothing wrong with using them, I've used them, as have my customers for decades with no issues or failures, street, track, or road course cars that have been equipped with them,....however: your emergency brake cables can be used with no mods, the only thing to remember is to install the calipers on the correct side of the car with the bleeders as high as possible, and to use the shims provided to center the caliper over the rotor for equal pad wear/placement, flex lines are provided to adapt to your existing hard brake lines, now is the time to replace any old lines on the axle, they do offer lines alredy done for the rear disc brake set-up if you desire new lines, you will have to reshape/direct your existing ends, so if they're in sad shape?...replace

So if you have the tools/equipment to change out to Green Bearings, assorted hand tools, brake tubing tools (possibly needed) it is a 2-4 hr change out

The Dr Diff kits have provisions for the tapered bearing adjuster should you decide to go that route and keep the factory adjuster/bearings...perhaps Cass will chime in with a run down of his install guidlines for you?, or PM him

Mike

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 04:00 PM

Wow lots of great info there Mike!! Thank you!! I think i will pass the job on to a local shop as it sounds like more than i want to get into in my driveway.

BTW i have always heard of "green bearings" but just what are they?
Thanks again
Stu

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 04:30 PM

A few I found using the google search at the top of the page (Green Bearings).
Lots more there too.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...ID=#Post7020512

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5663875&Main=5663082

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/14.html

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 06:31 PM

Quote:

Wow lots of great info there Mike!! Thank you!! I think i will pass the job on to a local shop as it sounds like more than i want to get into in my driveway.

BTW i have always heard of "green bearings" but just what are they?
Thanks again
Stu

Stu,... Green Bearings are a ball bearing design, the originator of GREEN Bearings was Chrysler, it was a replacement bearing assy offered thru MOPAR to replace the tapered roller bearing assy found in production chrysler vehicles, Green Bearing allow you to loose the adjuster assy/preload required with the tapered bearings...Green Bearings, Chrysler's and other designs have been the topic of yea or nay amongsts motorheads for a few decades, some swear by them, some swear at them,.....myself I've used them the better part of 2 decades on the street/track/course with no failures, guess it boils down to installation for some?...almost every vehicle produced (re: Millions of vehicles, where's those massive failures

?) in the last few decades uses a "Green" style bearing, more and more track/course even circle cars are running Greens......if you do decide to use Greens use the snap ring style, Dr Diff sells those also

mike

Posted By: Todd

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 06:58 PM

This is a SSBC kit on the 64 with a Dana. Went together pretty easy.

Attached picture 7025015-2011-12-2815.18.00(Large).jpg

Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 08:39 PM

Hey Stu...My Brother Jon aka: stubbs300 (now banished from MOPARTS) did a complete disc swap on his 66/300...the Red and White one he had at last years Half Moon Bay/Dream Machines event. A few years ago he and I both did the SSBC conversions. I went with disc fronts and he all the way around. We did have the AF Base hobby shop available which made it easier but the swap on his ride went as advertised. Albeit a little massaging was required. In addition to the brake swap on the rear, we replaced the bearings with the Greens. This was done because it was easier to set up the rear system with them. I know a lot out there don't like them...EBooger included, however in my opinion they are fine for what we use our rides for. Too much purist for me as the taper vs Green. I have them on my 66 Sat project and I am not worried. Anyway...Back on topic...The overall install and performance of the rears coupled with the fronts is outstanding. His 4000 lb C Body will stop on a dime and then give you nine cents change. That is how good they are...IMHO. As a side note...if you have some time and can get up to Travis AFB area, I can get you into the Hobby Shop as a guest and we can turn it into a joint effort. I know the manager real well and my Brother and I do a lot of work on our rides there. Lifts, air, specialty tools, you name it. Top notch too....cr8crshr/Bill...

Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/18/12 09:38 PM

So what takes the side loading when you go around a corner with a GREEN bearing installed in a 8 3/4 diff? Isn't that what the tapered bearings are for? I know on a GREEN bearing type diff that was designed for it (ie 8 1/4 and 9 1/4) it's taken up by the snap rings and transfered to the carrier bearings, at least thats the way I understand it.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/19/12 01:21 AM

Thanks guys for all the great info! I am in between choosing the SSBC or the DR. Diff kit.

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/19/12 03:06 AM

"Green" (brand) ball bearing conversions were originated by...The Green Ball Bearing Co. (now part of Bearing Technologies, Avon, Ohio).

MP has sold them, with the catalog proviso: "for drag racing use only", for quite a while. They definitely make life easier if you're making frequent "pig" swaps; however, being ball (vs. huge OEM Timken tapered rollers) they, of course, have a small fraction of the load carrying capacity. I have never personally seen a set last more than 10K, the stockers can go 250K.

I was originally worried that they would fail catastrophically, but they do seem to give plenty of warning - "snow tire" type noise. Still, they are a much weaker design -- this is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.

I'd personally not even do even one high-speed road-course lap, or one Auto-X lap (with sticky tires) with 'em.

Rick

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/19/12 05:14 AM

My kit uses '94-'04 Mustang Cobra rear calipers. The Cobra calipers are actually a descendant of the Turbo Coupe units.

The following link shows a few pictures of my 10.7" econo and premium rear disc brake kits.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...amp;Search=true

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/19/12 05:32 AM

Quote:

My kit uses '94-'04 Mustang Cobra rear calipers. The Cobra calipers are actually a descendant of the Turbo Coupe units.

The following link shows a few pictures of my 10.7" econo and premium rear disc brake kits.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...amp;Search=true

Thank you taking the time to post that. What is the differnce between the econo and preminum kits?? I was looking for the one that has the parking brake set up included.

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/19/12 06:16 AM

The 10.7" econo kit has bolt-together steel caliper brackets. The premium kit is the same, with the exception of 1 piece, billet aluminum caliper brackets.

Both kits include DOT stainless flex hoses.

Semi pre-bent hard lines are optional on the premium kit.

Drilled/slotted/plated rotors are optional on both versions.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 01:55 AM

Thanks for all the help and advice! I ordered the SSBC kit today only as i got the free powdercoating otherwise i would have gone with Dr. Diffs set up.

Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 06:53 PM

Great choice Stu...No offense Dr Diff...Your stuff is excellent as well. Let me know if you need a hand as this retirement thing is starting to get old real fast. This type of brake conversion I have done....cr8crsh/Bill

Posted By: bill440rt

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 07:04 PM

My experience with the rear SSBC stuff is that it was a pile o' crap. Garbage. The stock parking brake cables ended up being 2" too short, despite SSBC's claims that they would work. Had to order custom cables. Didn't have the greatest of luck with the front kit, either. I won't use their products again. That's just me, though.
I swapped out everything for a 4-wheel Wilwood setup, & couldn't be happier with the braking performance. The rears were a little tricky to dial in the parking brake, but once set up it works great.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 09:31 PM

Quote:

My experience with the rear SSBC stuff is that it was a pile o' crap.

Oh great................well so far the front kit has worked our very well. So i will keep my

on the rear kit.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 10:07 PM

I have often wondered why most rear disc kits specify Green bearings, the front Timken bearings can be adjusted to zero end play why not the rears?

Posted By: bill440rt

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 10:32 PM

I might be way off base here, but from what I remember reading it has something to do with centering the caliper correctly??

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/21/12 10:56 PM

Quote:

So what takes the side loading when you go around a corner with a GREEN bearing installed in a 8 3/4 diff? Isn't that what the tapered bearings are for? I know on a GREEN bearing type diff that was designed for it (ie 8 1/4 and 9 1/4) it's taken up by the snap rings and transfered to the carrier bearings, at least thats the way I understand it.

8-1/4 and 9-1/4" axles did not have Green (or any other brand) ball bearings. They had straight rollers which rode directly upon the axle shaft. Cornering thrust was taken by the axle inner "tips", which transferred the load to the differential bearings (Timkens) via the diff pinion pin.

Rick E.

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 12:37 AM

Many rear disc brake kits require Green bearings because the caliper bracket doubles as a wheel bearing retainer.

BTW, any kit (like Wilwood, Aerospace etc...) that places the wheel bearing snap-ring against the housing end will ruin the Green bearings due to preloading unless you shorten the axles, remove the differential thrust block, or add an 1/8" shim against the housing end.

In spite of multiple complaints by me as well as Strange Engineering and Dutchman Motorsports, Wilwood won't fix or even acknowledge the problem with their poorly designed Mopar rear disc brake kits.

Posted By: bill440rt

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 03:52 AM

In my case my rear was already rebuilt with the thrust block removed, & I had ordered new axles from Moser.

Wasn't a dig at you at all Dr Diff or your kits, I've heard fantastic things about them.

I just had crap luck with all out product failure and extremely poor customer service practices with SSBC.

Posted By: 67autocross

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 04:50 AM

A friend did a SSBC 4 wheel disc swap on his C body and it does not work very good, the shop that installed it spent a lot of time on the phone with their tech department and they never did get it to work.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 06:12 PM

Quote:

A friend did a SSBC 4 wheel disc swap on his C body and it does not work very good, the shop that installed it spent a lot of time on the phone with their tech department and they never did get it to work.

So last night at our car club annual dinner i asked around if anyone had used the SSBC rear disc kit and quite a few have. Everyone of them said the kit was terrible and they all sent them back or just gave up and bought another brand.

Although none of them had used it on a 8 3/4 mopar only fords and chevies.....hummnnn??

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 06:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A friend did a SSBC 4 wheel disc swap on his C body and it does not work very good, the shop that installed it spent a lot of time on the phone with their tech department and they never did get it to work.

So last night at our car club annual dinner i asked around if anyone had used the SSBC rear disc kit and quite a few have. Everyone of them said the kit was terrible and they all sent them back or just gave up and bought another brand.

Although none of them had used it on a 8 3/4 mopar only fords and chevies.....hummnnn??

Some people can be all "thumbs" when it comes to working on their vehicles....I've installed the SSBC rear discs on 68-70 B bodies, 71-2 B bodies, and 70-74 E bodies, 8 3/4 and DANA 60

...heres SSBC rears on my Charger, no mods needed other than re-routing the hard lines on the axle....everything was bolt-on, rear E brake lines fit/work with no issues,....although the instructions included with the kits lack a step by step approach, anyone with moderate skill can install them,....I think the biggest problem that people encounter is how the parts go together, and in what order,...and centering the caliper over the rotor for equal pad placement,....Stu if your running cast wheels, make sure to increase the length of the wheel studs...as some neglect to do this, common sense is the rule of thumb when making modifications

Attached picture 7031459-melon9.jpg

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/22/12 07:12 PM

Quote:

Stu if your running cast wheels, make sure to increase the length of the wheel studs...as some neglect to do this, common sense is the rule of thumb when making modifications

Thanks for the heads up Mike your set up looks great! I have a set of AR Hoopsters on the car.

Attached picture 7031499-Whels.jpg

Posted By: bill440rt

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/23/12 03:10 AM

In my case it was complete product failure vs consumer error, although that was the angle SSBC was trying to push.
They went on just fine, although yes I do agree the rear kit instructions are very vague.

I had problems with the crossover tubes on the front calipers leaking. Tightened some more, leaking. Tightened more, still leaking. Finally sent them back to SSBC, to which they replied they were going to repair them vs replace them. I thought they were nuts, but they refused to replace them. I got them back & on the car, they still leaked but this time I got them to stop. They then BLEW APART while bleeding the brakes. I sent them back yet again where they found they were assembled with the incorrect tensile strength bolts from manufacturing. Scary stuff indeed. At this point SSBC refused to offer me a refund because the brakes had been installed (still zero miles on the car mind you).

I found the rear caliper mounting brackets to be on the flimsy side, they have quite a bit of flex to them.
Stu, whatever you do, take Dayclona's advice & do NOT use the wheel studs they give you! With a mere 23 miles on the car the rear wheel studs FAILED. I lost one lug, and almost completely lost a wheel. I don't know what tensile strength steel they are made of, but upon inspection I found the knurls on all the wheel studs rounded off, the studs were flattened smooth. And yes, I know how to install wheel studs, and yes the wheels were torqued properly. There were plenty of threads for the lugs to engage as well.

A friend of mine just had front hubs fail on his SSBC kit on his Dart, they were on the car for about 8 years or so. He nearly lost a wheel, and resulted in quite a bit of damage to his car.

These are just my experiences. I know several people that use & like them just fine. But based on my experiences I won't use their products on my cars ever again.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/23/12 03:36 AM

Ok well i will pass this along to the shop that is going to do the install and maybe that will save me some grief??

Thank you!

Posted By: 67autocross

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/23/12 07:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A friend did a SSBC 4 wheel disc swap on his C body and it does not work very good, the shop that installed it spent a lot of time on the phone with their tech department and they never did get it to work.

So last night at our car club annual dinner i asked around if anyone had used the SSBC rear disc kit and quite a few have. Everyone of them said the kit was terrible and they all sent them back or just gave up and bought another brand.

Although none of them had used it on a 8 3/4 mopar only fords and chevies.....hummnnn??

Some people can be all "thumbs" when it comes to working on their vehicles....I've installed the SSBC rear discs on 68-70 B bodies, 71-2 B bodies, and 70-74 E bodies, 8 3/4 and DANA 60

...heres SSBC rears on my Charger, no mods needed other than re-routing the hard lines on the axle....everything was bolt-on, rear E brake lines fit/work with no issues,....although the instructions included with the kits lack a step by step approach, anyone with moderate skill can install them,....I think the biggest problem that people encounter is how the parts go together, and in what order,...and centering the caliper over the rotor for equal pad placement,....Stu if your running cast wheels, make sure to increase the length of the wheel studs...as some neglect to do this, common sense is the rule of thumb when making modifications

The shop had no problem installing the kit, they just could never get it to work good. The car has very poor stopping power.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/23/12 09:38 PM

Quote:

The shop had no problem installing the kit, they just could never get it to work good. The car has very poor stopping power.

Lots of possible variables?....system not properly bleed?, wrong choice in master cylinder bore?, a residual vavle left in-line?, the PV system still in place?, rubber lines swelling under pressure?, or too much rubber line in the system?.etc,etc,etc

All the things you must consider when building a 4 wheel disc system among other variables

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/27/12 02:35 AM

Turns out that one of my friends also bought the SSBC kit this week too. He asked about having to use the green bearings only and they told him the kit will work with stock or green berrings no problem. We shall see!

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/30/12 03:16 AM

Got the front discs painted today:

Attached picture 7043550-discbrakesonroadrunner005.JPG

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/30/12 03:36 AM

Quote:

Turns out that one of my friends also bought the SSBC kit this week too. He asked about having to use the green bearings only and they told him the kit will work with stock or green berrings no problem. We shall see!

Hmmmmm, ..unless they have recently changed the axle flange brackets to accept the factory adjuster?

...I don't buy SSBC kits unless supplied by a customer, I machine/fabricate all my own rear wheel disc set-ups based on the SSBC design, (yea I bootlegged their set-up)...I only purchase the calipers and rotors from them as needed....but even the last kit that a customer supplied about a year ago had no provisions for the axle adjuster

Mike

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Rear drum to disc conversion SSBC kit question - 01/30/12 04:02 AM

Quote:

but even the last kit that a customer supplied about a year ago had no provisions for the axle adjuster

Mike

Well the SSBC tech said it's all good for stock or geen bearings so we shall see! Hope it all goes smoothly......