Moparts

Comp vs stock lifters

Posted By: MoJoe

Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 01:21 AM

My 383 runs good and has plenty of power but it's noisey as hell. It has a Comp cam, spings and lifters. I took the valve covers off to check the lifters to see if they were sticking and I really could not tell, so I took them out to clean them like the shop manual instructs. While taking them apart I broke one of the retainters for the plunger. I went to Advance Auto, got a stock lifter, took the retainer and put it on the Comp lifter...problem solved. Although they are the same size, I noticed considerable differences between the two, mainly that the plunger on the Comp lifter was almost twice as deep as the stock lifter. I think I have stock push rods. Could they be a little too short and thats why it's so noisey? It also louder on the left side. Could it be a fuel pump push rod? It has good oil pressure so I don't think its the bottom end. I don't know what to check next. Any input? Thanks
Posted By: chall_70

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 01:53 AM

I would try looking into a type of aftermarket oiling system for your setup, that will increase oil flow to the lifters. This seems to be a common problem with mopars, Or maybe valve lash adjustment?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 02:05 AM

If your preload is good you might have to breakin another set of lifter(s) to quiet it. While idling press straight down on each rocker arm on the pushrod end w a wooden hammer handle & see if any of em get quieter & that ID's the problem ones EDIT Can take out the pump/p rod & run it for the several seconds of fuel in the bowl to ans that Q. MORE EDIT iirc the p rod length is 3.250" & should be very close to that & no cupped ends. First check your preload on base circle
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 03:27 PM

What cam do you have ? If it's an XE grind welcome to the club. They are noisy, get used to it.

As far as the pushrods being too short , it's usually the other way around , they are too long after the heads and the block have been decked during the rebuild process.
Posted By: MoJoe

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 07:35 PM

Thats what it is, XE262 a pretty mild cam. Maybe if it was a little more agressive maybe the noise would not be so noticeable?. I really don't mind the noise so much, as long I do not have something else going on. I only took the left side apart, I'm just going to put it back together and drive it. Thanks
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 08:00 PM

Where is your oil Pressure at a hot idle ? are you useing stock rockers ? or rollers?
you may need to put a high volume pump or high pressure relief spring in the stock pump in the motor .
I have had a motor with roller rockers sound noisey due low oil pressure at idle .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/13/11 09:38 PM

Quote:

Thats what it is, XE262 a pretty mild cam. Maybe if it was a little more agressive maybe the noise would not be so noticeable?. I really don't mind the noise so much, as long I do not have something else going on. I only took the left side apart, I'm just going to put it back together and drive it. Thanks



Do you have an adjustable valvetrain so you can set the proper lifter preload ?

XE's have fast ramps which is what makes them noisy.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thats what it is, XE262 a pretty mild cam. Maybe if it was a little more agressive maybe the noise would not be so noticeable?. I really don't mind the noise so much, as long I do not have something else going on. I only took the left side apart, I'm just going to put it back together and drive it. Thanks



Do you have an adjustable valvetrain so you can set the proper lifter preload ?

XE's have fast ramps which is what makes them noisy.



The 262 is a small cam, but the XE is an agressive lobe (fast ramps) for a hydraulic cam. It slaps the valvetrain around pretty good and hence the noise.
Posted By: MoJoe

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 02:41 AM

I have stock rockers and oil pressure is about 45/50 psi at idle.
Posted By: wally426ci

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 03:30 AM

same problem, I'll be losing this cam whenever time and money allows.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 08:40 AM

Quote:

I have stock rockers and oil pressure is about 45/50 psi at idle.

You probally need a set of adjustbale pushrods or adjustable rockers and proper pushrods to match to get the proper preload on the lifters. Before you reassemble the motor, pull all the pushrods out but the ones for #1 cylinder and then reinstall the rockers on the motor, don't start it up Pull the coil wire and bump the motor over a little at a time while watching the rocker arms, what I want you to do is to get the motor to top dead center on the compression and or firing stroke. Once you get that see if you have any free play between the rocker arms and the pushrods, if you do you need longer pushrods or adjustables one so you can preload the lifters .030 to .060 IHTHs BTW, what year motor are you working on and did the rocker assembly come with the motor? Mopar use a 1/4 inch ball pushrod on the lifter end and a 5/16 ball end on the rocker end until 1966 and from then on a 5/16 ball pushrod end on both ends, they change the lifter size cups at the same time
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 10:16 AM

Cab were those the ones w the reduced dia on one end?
Posted By: MoJoe

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 12:51 PM

When setting the preload is the lifter supposed to be filled with oil or empty? My Chevy buddies tell me you have to "pump up them lifters" or fill them before they are installed. Instructions say to put in empty and run slow until they fill. Is the volume of oil always the same or does it vary according to the stroke? Another thing they say is just "replace the lifters" , a new set is $100 How can a new or nearly new lifter be bad or go bad ? It seems to me that the only part subject to failure is the plunger spring. Could pumping the lifter before installing and running without the proper preload compress the spring so it fails or weakens leading to a collapsed lifter? I have not put it back together yet so I'll check the preload and go from there. When looking for proper pre load which end of the tolerance would be best in this case? I guess tighter would be better? Thanks
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 03:11 PM

Quote:

When setting the preload is the lifter supposed to be filled with oil or empty? My Chevy buddies tell me you have to "pump up them lifters" or fill them before they are installed. Instructions say to put in empty and run slow until they fill. Is the volume of oil always the same or does it vary according to the stroke? Another thing they say is just "replace the lifters" , a new set is $100 How can a new or nearly new lifter be bad or go bad ? It seems to me that the only part subject to failure is the plunger spring. Could pumping the lifter before installing and running without the proper preload compress the spring so it fails or weakens leading to a collapsed lifter? I have not put it back together yet so I'll check the preload and go from there. When looking for proper pre load which end of the tolerance would be best in this case? I guess tighter would be better? Thanks



First off stop listening to your chevy buddies.

The lifter doesn't need to be pumped up , the lifter has an internal spring that keeps the cup up against the retaining clip. you want at leasst the .030 of preload , what you need to an adjustable pushrod so you can check the length you need. If you have stock length pushrods and have had the heads and block trimmed on the rebuild you pushrods are most likely too long.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/14/11 04:42 PM

Your chevy buddies are living in the last century. It has been at least 11 years since the cam manufacturers started telling us to not "pump them up" before installation. Also about the same time I started reading to not put the breakin lube on the sides of the lifter, just the end. Motor oil goes on the sides.

I also vote for pushrod length as being a probable cause. Get a couple of checking pushrods and set them to the right length, then have the pushrods made.

R.
Posted By: MoJoe

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/15/11 12:13 AM

I took off work a little early and came home to put my car back together. It's been a while since I've done it and it was a little tricky getting the push rods to line up. I had a thin wooden dowel that I laid against the rocker post to line them up, after that it was a piece of cake. When I fired it up, I noticed a difference right away. I let it run at about 1200rpm for about 15 min and it got quieter. I took it around the block a few times what a difference. Before it sounded like it was coming apart now, it sounds like a real big sewing machine, still a little noisey, but not scary. I don't know what I did but I feel a lot better now. Maybe this winter when I'm snowed in I'll send a little time checking into the preload or maybe some Stealth heads and some after market rockers. Sometimes a little knowledge can be expensive as well as dangerous. Thanks Moparts and Merry Christmas
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/15/11 12:57 AM

Quote:

When I fired it up, I noticed a difference right away. I don't know what I did but I feel a lot better now.

good Karma!
Posted By: aspenrt360

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/15/11 01:08 AM

i have done a couple of engines with comp xe cams they work good but they do make noise. some more than others, i always check my lifter preload it is just good tradecraft you need to measure it to know what is going on, even if you bought the engine new with the car the production tolerences were pretty shaky. it made noise before and now it is better? things don't tend to fix themselves, i would want to know why. cheers
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Comp vs stock lifters - 12/15/11 03:58 AM

Quote:

it made noise before and now it is better? things don't tend to fix themselves, i would want to know why. cheers



Please don't rain on the KARMA parade ...

© 2024 Moparts Forums