Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#2404480
11/16/17 02:01 PM
11/16/17 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
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The latest issue of Mopar Action has an article about the 2nd Generation Borgeson box and insulated coupler. Does anyone have any experience with this setup?
I currently run a stage III firm feel box with extended pitman and idlers, but I like the idea of a 14:1 Borgeson with shorter/stock pitman and idlers to allow better exhaust clearance.
Any stories, any wisdom to share?
Oh - this would be for my 71 Satellite Sebring.
Thanks.
Jim I talked to them at SEMA and they showed me that coupler.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2404543
11/16/17 05:13 PM
11/16/17 05:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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Isn't the turning radius enlarged by using the Borgs'n box? I thought I read that recently on another post somewhere. Enlarging the turning radius isn't something desirable.
The Chrysler factory box with the longer arms (pitman and idler) become 12.7:1 ratio... with 2.7 turns lock-to-lock... still faster than the Borgs'n box which, I believe, is 3.5 turns lock-to-lock, and a relatively slower ratio of 16:1... same as a factory Chrysler box having the short arms.
The biggest advantage I see with the Borgs'n box is the reduced weight of ~10 pounds.... off the front-end of the car... improves overall handling response with less weight. But... the steering is still faster lock-to-lock the factory Chrysler box having the longer arms.
Also, the longer idler arm -- some call it the "fast-ratio idler arm" is simply a C-Body idler arm (~1970 Fury, etc)... always has been this, always will remain this. Chrysler simply realized they forgot to add it to their assembly line whenever the T/A box was installed (having the longer "Fast-Ratio" pitman arm. (No company can make a claim for "developing" or "creating" a "fast-ratio" idler arm... it's simply the C-body arm.)
The coupler which Bergman Automotive sells is a great item for anyone installing the Borgs'n box.
One thing that I've never been able to get any answers are ... is IF the Borgs'n box can accept the longer "Fast-Ratio" pitman arm, and then to also install the C-body longer idler arm ... that would make things very interesting and more desirable to me. Faster, lighter... all that becomes much better!!!
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 11/16/17 05:19 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2404838
11/17/17 03:57 AM
11/17/17 03:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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OK... 14:1... I forgot (thought I read 16:1 recently).
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#2405483
11/18/17 03:45 PM
11/18/17 03:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Last edited by Supercuda; 11/18/17 03:46 PM.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2405603
11/18/17 07:48 PM
11/18/17 07:48 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701 Northern California
lilcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
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The latest issue of Mopar Action has an article about the 2nd Generation Borgeson box and insulated coupler. Does anyone have any experience with this setup?
I currently run a stage III firm feel box with extended pitman and idlers, but I like the idea of a 14:1 Borgeson with shorter/stock pitman and idlers to allow better exhaust clearance.
Any stories, any wisdom to share?
Oh - this would be for my 71 Satellite Sebring.
Thanks.
Jim I talked to them at SEMA and they showed me that coupler. How exactly is that coupler insulated?
'67 is an abbreviation of 1967 67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet They are not interchangeable.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2406076
11/19/17 09:24 PM
11/19/17 09:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 190 NJ
JH23
member
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member
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Posts: 190
NJ
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Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard? Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power. How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi?
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JH23]
#2406093
11/19/17 10:14 PM
11/19/17 10:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard? Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power. How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi? Get a dyno and find out
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JH23]
#2406094
11/19/17 10:20 PM
11/19/17 10:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard? Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power. How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi? I don't know why it would be any different than any other application.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#2407016
11/21/17 09:13 PM
11/21/17 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732 eastern,Ky
70RT Charger
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
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eastern,Ky
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My buddy just installed my Borgeson and pump in my car that I bought off of Bergman and it was gravy he said. The TTI headers and everything also fit flawlessly he said
Last edited by 70RT Charger; 11/21/17 09:13 PM.
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: 70RT Charger]
#2408070
11/24/17 12:01 AM
11/24/17 12:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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My buddy just installed my Borgeson and pump in my car that I bought off of Bergman and it was gravy he said. The TTI headers and everything also fit flawlessly he said Great to hear! don't forget to take pics of the SST Tremec 6spd install when you get to it, I'd like to see how it works out in a 2nd gen B body Mike
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Re: Considering new Borgeson box
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#2411116
11/30/17 02:29 AM
11/30/17 02:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Make sure to get the flow control valve for the saginaw so its not so twitchy on the road. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/400651963891?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=trueFor my 71 roadrunner, the very same car your running, I have the boreson with the saginaw pump(with flow control valve changed) and a small ps cooler, smaller steering wheel(350mm), fast ratio arms, sector support kit and idler roller bearing kit all from firm feel. http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_parts.htmlI'm not sure if your planning to do fast ratio arms or not, but you should weld up the ps box support on your kmember or add braces to strengthen it up, make sure you use loctite on the bolts that bolt the boregson to the kmember, the sector support do help keep everything nice and straight and tight. I'm telling you all of this because my first go round with the boregson was not pretty- there was so much stress on the box with the faster ratio arms and the fast ratio of the boregson that I cracked my pump in two spots. And when I moved the steering from side to side, I could see the boregson move up and down inside the bolt holes that hold the damn thing in place. Now with everything I have, nothing moves and the steering is beautiful, My turning radius from lock to lock is about 1.8 turns, I highly recommend it!
Last edited by dangina; 11/30/17 02:31 AM.
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