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904 to Overdrive #1737634
01/24/15 03:04 PM
01/24/15 03:04 PM
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pensacola, fl
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53fopar Offline OP
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I found lots of posts on conversion to OD but I guess I don't know enough about the MOPAR OD units to understand what they're talking about.

I am running a LA 360 with a 904 in a 1953 Ford panel truck. Read end is Dana with 3.92 gears. Would like to convert to OD to make the truck more highway usable and save some gas.

Don't have the cash for the add on OD units. I see discussions about the A500, A508, A518 and R46H. Can someone school me on these and maybe give me recommendation?
Thanks

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: 53fopar] #1737635
01/24/15 03:49 PM
01/24/15 03:49 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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The A500 is basically a 904 with an OD attached to the rear of the case, the A518 is a 727 with the OD attached...the 46RH is just a later designation for the A518. The OD unit is physically the same on both and adds some length and width to the trans. In pic below from left, A518, 727, A500

Either one would work with your 360. '95 or earlier are best for retrofits because they don't require computer control.

8406538-518_727_500.jpg (996 downloads)
Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: John_Kunkel] #1737636
01/24/15 04:40 PM
01/24/15 04:40 PM
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53fopar Offline OP
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Thanks John, just what I needed.

So to do the swap I guess I have shorten the drive shaft and maybe new crossmember.

How does the overdrive work? Pressure controlled or rpm's or what?

I assume these are lock-up converters.

I guess the A518 might be the way to go since most of the 360's came with 727's. I know I had a hard time finding the correct counter balanced converter for the 904. Or can I do the B&M flex plate and then use a 318 A500? I assume the 518 is tougher than the 500 similar to the 904 vs 727? I am not drag racing, just a street truck. I do some light towing once in a while.

Are there 500/518's around out there without giving up an arm or leg?

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: 53fopar] #1737637
01/24/15 06:08 PM
01/24/15 06:08 PM
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RodStRace Offline
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A couple more clarifications
The later naming is (for example)
46RH
4=4 speeds
6=strength (8 is diesel only IIRC)
R=rear drive
H=Hydraulic Controlled VS E =Electronic Controlled

OD is controlled by fluid pressure, which is switched by an electrical signal. There is a separate plug and different valve body with the passages.

http://transpartsonline.com/tpfile/DODGE_TRANSMISSION_PARTS.htm

The lockup converter came in around 94, that adds another layer to the choices.
Look for vans and trucks for the most part. Not too many RWD cars by then (89-92).

A search here or he net will provide the details for controlling the OD - there is a on/off switch normally, but there is also a need to be able to kickdown (vacuum signal) and release when slowing (brake pedal input) so you don't have to keep remembering to flick the switch.
There are workarounds for the lockup too. I don't know of an aftermarket black box to do the 46RE as a stand alone.

For towing, either could do it, but the 904/500 would require more upgrades. Depends on budget and available cores as to if it's smarter to go either way.

A non-lockup may be able to use the existing flexplate and converter. A different trans or lockup will require more parts.

Yes, he trans crossmember will need to be modified, and the driveshaft shortened.
Throttle pressure, Shifter and cooler lines should swap.

I'm sure there are guys here that can provide even more info on this swap.


More pics
http://www.handymanlyness.com/archives/a..._93_Dakota.html

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: RodStRace] #1737638
01/24/15 10:15 PM
01/24/15 10:15 PM
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savoy64 Offline
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for the wiring up of the O/D and lockup look at the PATC webpage-----scroll down the page and you will see what they sell and how to do it----i bought the overpriced kit and installed it----i ended up disconnecting the vacuum disconnect as it seemed too sensitive---- the pressure switches used are available in transmission supply houses for the turbo 350 for about $10 each----i wired up a diesel dodge with an AC pressure switch and a toggle---it was good to go......

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: savoy64] #1737639
01/24/15 10:27 PM
01/24/15 10:27 PM
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bigdad Offline
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Guess I've been asking on the wrong spot

Soooooo, building this here car

And, we put a Dana in it, mocked it up with a 727 and the tunnel is plenty big enough to fit most anything , including a safety blanket and a shield etc

I made the mount adjustable


It is going to be a small block (sitting in it now )

so, which one will work best

street / strip kinda deal

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bigdad] #1737640
01/25/15 12:25 AM
01/25/15 12:25 AM
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53fopar Offline OP
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Thanks for the great input guys. Now that I know what I am looking for I found a lots of stuff on a google search about 727 to A518 swaps.

In addition to the crossmember and drive shaft I'll have to replace the drive shaft yoke and cooling lines. I think the kick down, shift linkage and speedo should swap ok. I am thinking I'll keep it simple and do the non-locking A518 and just a toggle for the OD. Should only need the OD on highway trips anyway.

bigdad: if you mocked it up for a 727, you'll want the A518 also. I'd say non-locking if you're going to the strip, but maybe someone with more race background will chime in.

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: 53fopar] #1737641
01/25/15 01:21 AM
01/25/15 01:21 AM
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savoy64 Offline
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dont sell the 500 short---like the 904 they transmit more HP through the tranny---and do pick up an AC pressure switch at the pickapart and place it on the indicated pressure port with the toggle switch----and check the schematic on the PATC site---grounding the switch activates it.....

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: savoy64] #1737642
01/25/15 01:42 AM
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I looked into the 518 but, it sounded like it took a fair amount of HP just to run the thing

I can swap any trans in, I've thought ahead

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bigdad] #1737643
01/25/15 01:43 AM
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bigdad Offline
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8407129-TRANSDIMS.jpg (267 downloads)
Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: savoy64] #1737644
01/25/15 07:38 PM
01/25/15 07:38 PM
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Quote:

for the wiring up of the O/D and lockup look at the PATC webpage




I am trying to gather information on this swap as well.
Is this the above mentioned PATC web page?

http://transpartsonline.com/tpfile/DODGE_TRANSMISSION_PARTS.htm

If not, can some one please provide the link?

Thanks


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bboogieart] #1737645
01/25/15 07:53 PM
01/25/15 07:53 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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The link below, about half way down the page.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm


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Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: John_Kunkel] #1737646
01/25/15 07:57 PM
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Right-On
Thank You kindly.


I was also wondering...
how hard would it be to put the overdrive tail section onto a big block bell?

Sorry for the high-jack.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bboogieart] #1737647
01/25/15 09:07 PM
01/25/15 09:07 PM
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savoy64 Offline
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i am thinking it could (WITH A SPACER OR OTHER WORK) fit on the back of a big block 4x4 case----might cost more than the ultra bell....

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bigdad] #1737648
01/25/15 11:33 PM
01/25/15 11:33 PM
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RodStRace Offline
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Quote:

Guess I've been asking on the wrong spot




Sorry, I didn't see a post from you asking about these.
There is a post over on HAMB right now too. Other good info in that one.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/mopar-727-to-a518-conversion.960089/

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: savoy64] #1737649
01/26/15 12:10 AM
01/26/15 12:10 AM
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moparx Offline
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Quote:

i am thinking it could (WITH A SPACER OR OTHER WORK) fit on the back of a big block 4x4 case----might cost more than the ultra bell....



way too many differences in the tail section and hydraulic passages of the main case to allow this.

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: moparx] #1737650
01/26/15 12:56 AM
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Thanx.
I see it now.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: bboogieart] #1737651
01/27/15 01:16 PM
01/27/15 01:16 PM
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53fopar Offline OP
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Went junking yesterday looking for '91 or earlier 518. Only found one. It was out of the truck and the yard wanted $450 (WTF?). What happened to the days you could buy any transmission in the yard for $100?

The yards can't seems to search for a tranny, they want year, make, model. I know the 518's would be in the 2WD pickups and vans. How far back can I go?

Any AMC stuff with the 518 that would work?

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: 53fopar] #1737652
01/27/15 01:25 PM
01/27/15 01:25 PM
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savoy64 Offline
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sometimes you can search for the van/pu with a bad motor/wrecked and buy it to part out----take the parts you want and crush the rest.....try to make your investment cancelled with the crush....

Re: 904 to Overdrive [Re: 53fopar] #1737653
01/27/15 04:09 PM
01/27/15 04:09 PM
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John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

Went junking yesterday looking for '91 or earlier 518.




You limited your search to only two years since the 518 came out in '90. '90-'95 is what you want and newer is better.


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