Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! #2480947
04/11/18 09:43 AM
04/11/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
master
gregsdart  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I stopped buy Chuck Lofgrens shop yesterday for help with a trans. We got to talking about his DragPak FS/D Challenger. His car is spotless, both underneath and everywhere else. Just like his one owner 1970 Sixpak Cuda (!)
Chuck put the newly allowed aluminum 6.1 block in the car, and picked up 35 hp.
The old block only made 665 hp, the AL motor made 700! Pretty good gain IMHO.
Now the problem is it carries the front wheels out to past the 60 clocks! His best et to date is 9.55, and he wound up with a class trophy in F Super Stock, entering in SS because he didn't have enough points to run in FS at the Nationals.
Ma Mopar also wants all the DragPack cars at an upcoming event at Route 66 in Joliet, and is paying handsomely to get them there! Nice!

Last edited by gregsdart; 04/11/18 09:45 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2480961
04/11/18 10:22 AM
04/11/18 10:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
Never mind


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481030
04/11/18 12:36 PM
04/11/18 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
master
gregsdart  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
The block only


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481034
04/11/18 12:40 PM
04/11/18 12:40 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
popcorn

Kevin

Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: Twostick] #2481055
04/11/18 01:24 PM
04/11/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Must be fake news. No way an aluminum block can make as much, let alone more power than its iron equivalent stirthepot


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481062
04/11/18 01:33 PM
04/11/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
master
340Cuda  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Al, you certainly have a lot more experience than I do in this area but I can see how a very well engineered aluminum block with thick strong sleeves could provide a better ring seal that a iron block that might be more flexible. Of course ring seal equals power.

If this is the block I am thinking of it has more strengthening ribs in the valley that I have ever seen in a block.

That being said there could be lots of other factors with a completely different engine that could have accounted for the horsepower.

Bill

Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481071
04/11/18 01:43 PM
04/11/18 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
The NEW aluminum MP block certainly seems to be contributing to a lot of performance gains. Including the first ever 7 second Factory Shootout Pass


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481082
04/11/18 01:57 PM
04/11/18 01:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
So is it the block or not?

Confused in Peoria


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481088
04/11/18 02:03 PM
04/11/18 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Maybe I did not use enough sarcasm or the right emoji boogie

Greg stated that the ONLY change was the block. Also what was credited for the first 7 second pass, the new aluminum block.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481133
04/11/18 03:17 PM
04/11/18 03:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
Is there ventilation between the main webbing above the main bearing and below the bores in those iron or aluminum blocks?

I noticed the LS guys are running ventilation in there to get some breathing back and forth and keep from having high and low pressure areas in the crank case so I went to look at my blocks and noticed on the BGE block there is vents there already between the center bores at least but they are not on the 5.7 blocks. I don't have a 6.1 block here now and have never got to look that close at any of the non-production blocks. There could be some other changes unrelated to the material that are helping HP production also.

There are lots more things related to material that can alter HP between the blocks than just ring seal. Temp should be more uniform allowing more compression(don't sound like they took advantage of that here). Vibrations should be dampened better allowing more stable valve train dynamics.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: Al_Alguire] #2481137
04/11/18 03:21 PM
04/11/18 03:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Online Work
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
I considered scraping my Keith Black aluminum block because I read on the Internet that I would lose horsepower by using it. I started buying 40 year old stock cast blocks again.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: pittsburghracer] #2481140
04/11/18 03:32 PM
04/11/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
I considered scraping my Keith Black aluminum block because I read on the Internet that I would lose horsepower by using it. I started buying 40 year old stock cast blocks again.


Ill pay you 50Cents per pound, I will cover shipping and throw in a case of beer just so you don't have to use that HP sucking device. If you are very prompt about shipping and the block is still useable in my 9 passenger wagon I will throw in a 76 440 6pk max wegee hemi block from a motor home.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481282
04/11/18 09:35 PM
04/11/18 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
master
gregsdart  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Some good points were made on the gains being possibly more than ring seal, although I heard the stock 6.1 blocks didn't like much overbore?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481560
04/12/18 11:58 AM
04/12/18 11:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
Never mind


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481581
04/12/18 12:18 PM
04/12/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
DoubleD  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
stability of a casting under load is the reason - you would be suprised how much a casting can move under power - roush actually has a dyno jig to do the measuring and does quite bit of testing for the big three. Sooner or later there will be an aftermarket block for the Genn III

Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481586
04/12/18 12:23 PM
04/12/18 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Wasn't that part of what the "new" KB was going to be working on?


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481705
04/12/18 04:16 PM
04/12/18 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
master
gregsdart  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I tried what I saw in a video, putting a snap gauge in a vertical cylinder bore of a stock block, so the tension of the gauge was all it was held in there by. I could squeeze the block and make it drop out. If I can do that, you have to wonder how much the blocks twist, flex and distort under severe loads.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481733
04/12/18 05:13 PM
04/12/18 05:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
Never mind


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481746
04/12/18 05:31 PM
04/12/18 05:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
DoubleD  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
"An aluminum block as stiff as cast iron is impossible:"

True if cast identically - not true if designed differently

You need to think in three dimensions i.e. a trussed design

Re: Gen III AL block, big power gain! Ma Mopar paying racers! [Re: gregsdart] #2481756
04/12/18 05:51 PM
04/12/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
Hey, that's great for the guys who want to run a FS deal. What's Tony doing for those who don't have the budget to do that or just want to run a traditional S/SS class car?


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1