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Fuel cell EFI fuel pump #2434972
01/15/18 01:57 PM
01/15/18 01:57 PM
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Holley now has these EFI fuel pumps that drop into a fuel cell. Seems like a clever idea to me. Cleans up the plumbing in the trunk or under the car, especially if you mount the regulator next to the fuel cell. Then you just loop a short return line back into the fuel cell and only have to run a single high pressure line up to the engine.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sys...fi/parts/12-139

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435008
01/15/18 02:46 PM
01/15/18 02:46 PM
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EV2DEMON Offline
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I guess I never noticed before, but it appears Holley just relabels Walbro pumps?

For an EFI car, wouldn't a return still be necessary with the regulator after the fuel rails?

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: EV2DEMON] #2435027
01/15/18 03:31 PM
01/15/18 03:31 PM
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Mopar_Rich Offline
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Yes. A full return fuel system is used.

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: EV2DEMON] #2435065
01/15/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By EV2DEMON
I guess I never noticed before, but it appears Holley just relabels Walbro pumps?

For an EFI car, wouldn't a return still be necessary with the regulator after the fuel rails?





Yes a return is required but it doesn't have to be a full length return from the front of the car. I'm putting the regulator in the trunk on my Duster so I'll only have one high pressure line going to the front of the car.

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435080
01/15/18 05:06 PM
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I'm using the Holley 12-876 regulator/filter which is designed to be mounted next to the fuel cell. So if you have the pump in the fuel cell and then the 12-876 next to the fuel cell you would only need a short return line and the a high pressure line.

Up front I'm going to put the fuel pressure sensor at the end of the rail so the ECU knows what the pressure is at the end of the line. That way everything is controlled by the pressure at the end of the rail.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sys...rs/parts/12-876

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435118
01/15/18 06:26 PM
01/15/18 06:26 PM
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Not using a regulator at the rail is fairly common on newer cars. Ford uses pwm pump control to maintain pressure, and save wear and tear on the fuel pump. No regulator with this style system.
The problem using a mechanical regulator in the rear, is you lose some dynamic fuel control.
Manifold referenced regulators cut back fuel pressure at low load, and increase fuel pressure at high load. This allows a tad bit wider pulsewidth at idle, while delivering less fuel, which can be helpful if you have large injectors. It also gives more fuel at higher loads with lower pulsewidths.
Unless you plan on pwm pump control, the fuel pressure sensor really is nothing more than a logging benefit. It will have no effect on fuel control.
I may not be interpreting what you are doing correctly.


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Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435122
01/15/18 06:36 PM
01/15/18 06:36 PM
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451Mopar Offline
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Great to see this. I was thinking of trying the FiTech EFI 1200 on the Chargers 500" stroker engine.
Not sure 12" depth will work with my 20-gallon fuel cell?

Last edited by 451Mopar; 01/15/18 06:42 PM.
Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435602
01/16/18 01:28 PM
01/16/18 01:28 PM
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That's a nice alternative to running a second line to the front of the car. I love all the EFI upgrade stuff your making for our old Mopars, Andy! Some day I'll switch.

Single line to the front of the car using Pulse Width Modulation is the current state of the art. Do the Holly or Fast EFI computers support it? It helps keep the fuel pump cooler and allows it to last longer.

The Cadillac CTS-V pumps with secondary remote pick-ups(with snowmobile pick-ups) are larger, have a small build in sump, flow more fuel and drop in from the top of the tank like the Holley unit you showed.


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Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: jbc426] #2435639
01/16/18 02:17 PM
01/16/18 02:17 PM
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I did a little digging, and it looks like the Holley ECU will support a control unit, not the pump itself. To run PWM, you'll also need an external pump controller.

I won't be above 600 HP for now, but still not sure I like the idea of deadheading an EFI system.


Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435648
01/16/18 02:21 PM
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It is a little confusing on the new fuel cell pumps. The instructions show how to wire them and program the ECU for a pump controller, but when I talked to Holley tech they said that the pumps available now are not PWM. Sounds like they do have PWM pumps coming out in the near future.

The instructions show that if you ground the yellow wire on the pump then the pump runs at 50% capacity. There are some details showing how to program the ECU so that the pump runs at 50% unless the TPS is greater than 50% and then the pump goes 100%. So basically you can program it so when the throttle is wide open the pump is on full. Or if the nitrous is on then the fuel pump is on full.

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: AndyF] #2435671
01/16/18 03:06 PM
01/16/18 03:06 PM
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I'm not a fan of deadheaded fuel systems. I have seen several issues. Hard to get the vacuum line to the regulator, if air gets into the line it causes a pulse and doesn't clear for a while, Fuel sitting in the line is subject to heat soak at low engine rpms which is the worst on a hot day sitting at a light.

Also, the best fuel pump PWM systems respond to fuel demand not just TPS position.

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: Mopar_Rich] #2435752
01/16/18 05:11 PM
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Didn't Ford use a voltage reducer for part throttle fuel pump modulation years ago?

Walbro pumps feed a large percentage of the American motor industry products. I prefer them. Your mileage may vary.

R.

Re: Fuel cell EFI fuel pump [Re: Mopar_Rich] #2435804
01/16/18 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted By Mopar_Rich
I'm not a fan of deadheaded fuel systems. I have seen several issues. Hard to get the vacuum line to the regulator, if air gets into the line it causes a pulse and doesn't clear for a while, Fuel sitting in the line is subject to heat soak at low engine rpms which is the worst on a hot day sitting at a light.

Also, the best fuel pump PWM systems respond to fuel demand not just TPS position.



I agree with all of this.
The downsides of the limited “extra” plumbing are not worth the small benefit of a shorter return line.
My post was hinting at the fact that if you are using a non referenced return system, go all out and use the pwm set up. This still doesn’t negate the very real other problems stated.


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