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MSD distributor taking timing out #2403085
11/13/17 04:19 PM
11/13/17 04:19 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I have the same issue with my MSD distributor in the 511 that i had with the 408. When i rev the engine 3-4* timing comes out or retards. I fixed the SB issue by adding a crank trigger. Don't want to spend any more money right now and i think i might know why these distributors have this issue. Its not uncommon, just look it up. I believe the oil pump shaft gear is lifting when engine is rev'ed and turning as it lifts causing the timing to retard a bit. How can i stop the oil pump shaft from lifting? Thanks

Last edited by mopar dave; 11/13/17 04:19 PM.
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403102
11/13/17 04:45 PM
11/13/17 04:45 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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They make a thrust collar that goes on the distributor shaft to keep the intermediate shaft from jacking itself up on the cam gear.

http://www.billrolikenterprises.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2932988-HD

Kevin

Last edited by Twostick; 11/14/17 12:56 AM.
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: Twostick] #2403107
11/13/17 04:56 PM
11/13/17 04:56 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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That link does open, but i'll look that up. thanks

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: Twostick] #2403110
11/13/17 05:01 PM
11/13/17 05:01 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Just thinking about that collar. Wouldn't shimming the shaft solid do the same?

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403125
11/13/17 05:32 PM
11/13/17 05:32 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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I would drive out the roll pin & add some flat (non beveled) shims to reduce the axial play to .005" & you may need to in addition add the collar but first lightly twist the rotor back & forth with the dist still installed, not enough to get into the springs & see how much rotational play you have right now (you want very near none). speedway motors has a kit for $10. this may not be the issue for this situation but it is good to address it (it mainly causes spark scatter when timing it on the dampener) & a sloppy timing chain will do the same thing & a sloppy chain will skew cam degreeing readings.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403131
11/13/17 05:44 PM
11/13/17 05:44 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Someone (Mopar Performance?) sold a shim kit for on the shaft to move it up and minimize end play between the two. I would think timing chain slack, cam twist, timing light electronics not keeping up, etc., would all contribute to this. They all bounce to some degree. All reasons for using a crank trigger.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: CMcAllister] #2403309
11/14/17 12:04 AM
11/14/17 12:04 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I had the exact issue with my small block. Crank trigger isolated the distributor from the problem. I'm sure its the distributor. I used to think it was electrohysteristis or something with the pick up. I was just thinking today that if the oil shaft were to lift it would twist as its lifting being the gear is helical cut and hence moving the timing. I some how need to hold the shaft down as well as tighten up the distributor shaft wouldn't hurt.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403326
11/14/17 12:34 AM
11/14/17 12:34 AM
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Fulton County, PA
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I think they commonly shim the shaft up to reduce the play between the shaft and the distributor. Adding material to the tang of the distributor shaft and then machining or grinding it up to proper length is another option. Either way, it would have to be tuned with the intake or oil pump off to accurately adjust the end play without having it bind.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: CMcAllister] #2403349
11/14/17 01:14 AM
11/14/17 01:14 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Sounds like may be easier to add a crank trigger.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403358
11/14/17 01:30 AM
11/14/17 01:30 AM
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Rogue River, OR
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All you need to do is buy a collar that fits the dist. shaft and set it to have a little end play. They sell them at McMaster-Carr along with the bronze thrust washer to protect the intermediate gear if you are running a coated or bronze unit.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: Jeremiah] #2403369
11/14/17 02:14 AM
11/14/17 02:14 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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So the collar fits on the end of the distributor shaft? Any idea how much clearance is needed?

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403371
11/14/17 02:18 AM
11/14/17 02:18 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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set the collar on the end of the shaft reasonably snug then install the dist which will push it up then pull the dist & loctite the setscrew with the collar located at the height that it gets pushed up to.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: RapidRobert] #2403374
11/14/17 02:26 AM
11/14/17 02:26 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Ok Thanks. Ill give that a try.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: RapidRobert] #2403395
11/14/17 03:29 AM
11/14/17 03:29 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I had a firecore distributor in it perviously, the shaft must have been longer as i did not have this issue.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403592
11/14/17 05:31 PM
11/14/17 05:31 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
So the collar fits on the end of the distributor shaft? Any idea how much clearance is needed?

IIRC, the instructions with the collar I bought from Hughes said .006 or .008... not much!

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: BradH] #2403612
11/14/17 06:25 PM
11/14/17 06:25 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Ok. Was gonna see if i could find one at the bolt store. Think ill just order one from Hughes.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403616
11/14/17 06:40 PM
11/14/17 06:40 PM
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Washington
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
Ok. Was gonna see if i could find one at the bolt store. Think ill just order one from Hughes.



Any good hardware store will have what you need for less money.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403618
11/14/17 06:44 PM
11/14/17 06:44 PM
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Harleysville, PA USA
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Tommy D Offline
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You can try a bearing distributor as well like Motion Industries or Applied Industrial.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: mopar dave] #2403619
11/14/17 06:45 PM
11/14/17 06:45 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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I like the style McMaster-Carr (I think) carries better. If you compare the two, you'll see how they're secured to the shaft is different, and I think the Hughes collar could be more likely to come loose, since it's being "pinched" by a set screw, rather than clamped all around by the other style.

I do have the Hughes collar on mine now. I needed to find a new screw to tighten down my other one after I botched up the hex hole where the Allen key fits. So I used the Hughes -- which I also had on hand -- since I was in a time crunch.

Re: MSD distributor taking timing out [Re: BradH] #2403633
11/14/17 07:09 PM
11/14/17 07:09 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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What size is the msd distributor shaft?

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