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LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
#1833445
05/24/15 09:25 PM
05/24/15 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
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I'm pulling my Holley Strip Dominator single plane intake off to replace with Perfomer RPM dual-plane (it had more bottom end grunt where I needed it). Once I pulled the intake, upon closer inspection I noticed that 3 of the 16 lifters (SealedPower HT2011R) popped the retainer clip out. So here is what my lifters look like:  And here is the clip that popped out:  Now, when originally installed I set these up with 0 (zero) pre-load, they are meant to do this. However the motor was a little noisy so I re-adjusted my rocker arms to give them a tad of pre-load (basically 1/2 turn from zero). Motor quieted down, all seemed good. I suspect that the extra pre-load actually caused the retaining clips to pop-out...they have never done this before when I ran them with zero pre-load. Is it acceptable for me to simply re-assemble the lifter with the clip? Or is this something that I should be worried about? I took one of the lifters, disassembled it, all looked good, re-assembled and the clip slid right in. Looks like it should be good, but I do not want this failing once it's up and running. Looking around I see that SealedPower seems to have moved to the hard snap-ring retainer... 
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1833766
05/25/15 11:48 AM
05/25/15 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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OK, no one?
I like the solid-looking NEWer version of this lifter with it's snap-ring retainer. Does anyone know the diameter of the snap-ring I'd need to use?
I am thinking I might as well just replace all the metal retaining clips with the snap-ring... I would have a issue with just throwing another clip at it... it came apart once already..... JMO 
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: B G Racing]
#1833964
05/25/15 04:00 PM
05/25/15 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
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Usually the clips or retaining rings pop out because you don't have the proper preload.With proper preload the plunger should never contact the retainer.If it plunger contacts the retainer it will pop it out.When setting preload on a hydrualic lifter turn the rocker adjuster to zero lash then 1/4 to 1/2 turn to set the plunger away from the retainer.Make sure the lifter is on the bottom of the cam lobe.Do not reuse the retainer. The HT2011R lfiters are specifically meant to be installed with zero lifter pre-load (this is as per their instructions). The thinking there is that by removing all the pre-load from the start the lifters never actually pump-up at the higher RPM. This is how I had originally set them up. I see that CompCams now shows the following in their Adjustment Instructions for the ProMagnum lifters "...Through various testing we have discovered that the recommended lifter pre-load should be set between zero and 1/8 of a turn for optimal performance...", so with these lifter bodies they seem to be pursuing similar approach to the HT2011R lfiters. I will tell you that my motor easily went to 6500 RPM with these lifters adjusted to zero pre-load and my HE3844AL cam. Once I introduced the slight amount of pre-load to quiet it down the RPM did drop and the motor would not pull as high anymore...so my crude "butt-meter" did validate the whole anti pump-up theory. Your point about the plunger contacting the retainer is well taken though. Given that I actually pre-loaded these during my last adjustment I'm guessing that the lifters did pump-up and maybe I actually got into a bit of valve-float situation where the retainer no longer captured the plunger in the lifter body.
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: forphorty]
#1834277
05/26/15 12:34 AM
05/26/15 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
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My question is: If you are going to set them at zero lash, thereby negating the self adjusting properties of a hydraulic lifter, why not just run a solid cam and lifters? Well, I picked these lifters way back when (no joke, we're talking like around 2001-2002 when I was going through the engine block machining and final parts gathering) and mechanical cam was not part of the build at that time. Having said that, the anti pump-up lifters do give you the flexibility of having the lifters still deliver some of that self-adjustement, but it is very minimized. The end result is you do not run any lash, and have no need to re-adjust your mechanical cam setup. Hyphothetically, the best of both worlds. OK, reality is a bit different, a mechanical cam can be a lot more aggresive then a comparable hydraulic cam, or if of comparable dur @ 0.050 it will have better street manners then any hydraulic bumpstick. Hey...you do, you learn...lol...right now I'm grumpy because my weekend intake swap plan turned into a week-long lifter replacement job...still need to find the source of the HT2011R lifters and get that shipped by next weekend....
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1834834
05/26/15 09:11 PM
05/26/15 09:11 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
7e5dartsport
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member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
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as has been said, the clips of the lifters got out because you had lash at some point during engine operation, allowing the `cups` of the lifters to contact the retaining clips. i looked in the speed-pro catalog (sealed power), and for the anti pump-up lifters they advise setting lash at .002in. HOT. they also recommend that if the engine is noisy at this setting, that you should tighten the lash. after seeing what this approach did to your lifters, i would lash HOT for a 1/8 to a 1/4 turn preload. i would use NEW lifters, same brand ok. as for installment precautions, while the lifters are out of the engine, i would directly pour thick 20w50 oil on the cam lobes through the openings of the lifter valley and use assembly lube on the base of the lifters before installing them in their bores. for break-in, use the same procedures that would be needed with a new camshaft i.e. 20 minutes at 2000rpms, then change the oil. during break-in, notice if the engine is noisy (valvetrain), if so, tighten the lash a bit AFTER the break-in. this time, you should not have a problem with your lifters again.
Last edited by 7e5dartsport; 05/26/15 09:37 PM.
fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: B G Racing]
#1834851
05/26/15 09:51 PM
05/26/15 09:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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Posts: 7,506
Az
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Usually the clips or retaining rings pop out because you don't have the proper preload.With proper preload the plunger should never contact the retainer.If it plunger contacts the retainer it will pop it out.When setting preload on a hydrualic lifter turn the rocker adjuster to zero lash then 1/4 to 1/2 turn to set the plunger away from the retainer.Make sure the lifter is on the bottom of the cam lobe.Do not reuse the retainer.  - or you floated the valves and the pumped in to the retainers.
Fastest 300
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1835014
05/27/15 01:27 AM
05/27/15 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
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OP
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Alright you guys, I spent some time on the phone today trying to locate the new HT2011R lifters...no luck, Summit does not have them in-stock until Jun-1st. Even called FederalMogul (SpeedPro, SealedPower parent company), got a real friendly tech on the phone, described the situation to him but he didn't have any technical details (sizing, etc) on the lifter components. Not wanting to just sit there and wait I carried on...call me crazy, but here is what I've done:
1) I could not measure the ID of the lifter body machined grove (this is where the clip is retained within the lifter body), which meant I did not know the exact 'Grove Size Diameter'
2) I took a peek at my CompCams hydraulic roller lifters (retro-fit) and as it turned out they were using the snap-ring retainers, so off I went "sacrificing" one (well, I carefully removed the snap-ring)
3) I measured the dimensions of the ring, trial fitted into my HT2011R lifter body, it worked perfectly, once installed in the HT2011R lifter the snap-ring 'Gap Width' was exactly the same as when installed in the CompCams roller lifters, thus my conclusion that the "fit was right"
4) I hit on-line, maxing out the Google search engine (LOL, I'm an IS guy by profession) lights dimmed everywhere...eventually I came up with the RotorClip site (rotorclip.com) where a massive amounts of data is available for these snap-rings, and many other types
5) I measured all the lifter body, plunger, CompCams roller lifter snap-ring dimensions and easily, I mean I didn't even break sweat on their site (RotorClip), matched it up to the HO-68 snap-ring...I've attached the PDF drawing and their snap-ring catalog pages just for kicks...but it sure looks like this snap-ring is the right one.
Sooo...I'm hitting Fastenal tomorrow in hopes of being able to order a bunch of these. If I can, I will be able to re-use my lifters with the improved snap-ring retainer!!!
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1835081
05/27/15 08:11 AM
05/27/15 08:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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I can't see the pictures , flat tappet or roller ? Did the clip come completely out or only part way and the cup was cocked ?
I had a clip come part way out, cocked the cup and it stopped the lifter from rotating, ground the lobe off the cam.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1835307
05/27/15 03:07 PM
05/27/15 03:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Alright you guys, I spent some time on the phone today trying to locate the new HT2011R lifters...no luck, Summit does not have them in-stock until Jun-1st. Even called FederalMogul (SpeedPro, SealedPower parent company), got a real friendly tech on the phone, described the situation to him but he didn't have any technical details (sizing, etc) on the lifter components. Not wanting to just sit there and wait I carried on...call me crazy, but here is what I've done:
1) I could not measure the ID of the lifter body machined grove (this is where the clip is retained within the lifter body), which meant I did not know the exact 'Grove Size Diameter'
2) I took a peek at my CompCams hydraulic roller lifters (retro-fit) and as it turned out they were using the snap-ring retainers, so off I went "sacrificing" one (well, I carefully removed the snap-ring)
3) I measured the dimensions of the ring, trial fitted into my HT2011R lifter body, it worked perfectly, once installed in the HT2011R lifter the snap-ring 'Gap Width' was exactly the same as when installed in the CompCams roller lifters, thus my conclusion that the "fit was right"
4) I hit on-line, maxing out the Google search engine (LOL, I'm an IS guy by profession) lights dimmed everywhere...eventually I came up with the RotorClip site (rotorclip.com) where a massive amounts of data is available for these snap-rings, and many other types
5) I measured all the lifter body, plunger, CompCams roller lifter snap-ring dimensions and easily, I mean I didn't even break sweat on their site (RotorClip), matched it up to the HO-68 snap-ring...I've attached the PDF drawing and their snap-ring catalog pages just for kicks...but it sure looks like this snap-ring is the right one.
Sooo...I'm hitting Fastenal tomorrow in hopes of being able to order a bunch of these. If I can, I will be able to re-use my lifters with the improved snap-ring retainer!!! Awesome! You're good to go!
Fastest 300
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1835546
05/27/15 09:04 PM
05/27/15 09:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
OP
top fuel
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OP
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I can't see the pictures , flat tappet or roller ? Did the clip come completely out or only part way and the cup was cocked ?
I had a clip come part way out, cocked the cup and it stopped the lifter from rotating, ground the lobe off the cam. Flat tappet. No...luckily for me the plunger was not cocked as it came out easy once I pulled the lifters...I have 1 more lifter to check but the previous 2 there were no issues.
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#2350994
08/08/17 10:16 PM
08/08/17 10:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
ForcedInductions
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member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 48
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
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any confirmation this actually worked? i had the same saturday night and missed out on a car show fundraiser sunday. lucky no carnage aside from pride and some $$$ time for some new rockers and push rods but id like to retain the lifters as they are new. and it looks like just faulty retainer wire. just would feel safer with the snap rings. 
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Re: LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?
[Re: ForcedInductions]
#2351228
08/09/17 10:54 AM
08/09/17 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
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any confirmation this actually worked?... Sent you a PM...in the meantime I'm looking for some pics to post in this thread to better illustrate why I could not make the snap-ring in the old style lifter work...well, it was "iffy", so I took the safer way out since I had everything taken apart anyways and replacing the lifters was easy to do.
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