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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Chassisman]
#1178649
02/15/12 02:37 AM
02/15/12 02:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
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Not all that uncommon. I use an old cam core to make a cam bearing "cutter". Just cut pie grooves into the bearing journals and install the cam and spin it a bit. It will true up the bearings. UNLESS you have a bent cam you are trying to install.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1178650
02/15/12 02:50 AM
02/15/12 02:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,749
Chowchilla,ca
Chassisman
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,749
Chowchilla,ca
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Quote:
Not all that uncommon. I use an old cam core to make a cam bearing "cutter". Just cut pie grooves into the bearing journals and install the cam and spin it a bit. It will true up the bearings. UNLESS you have a bent cam you are trying to install.
Al.....we'll give that a shot....we tried the new cam and the old one....both bad the same issue.....thanks
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Chassisman]
#1178652
02/15/12 05:29 AM
02/15/12 05:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I actually had that same problem when I put my 493 together last winter. I also did what Al said but it did not fix it as mine was tight enough that I had to force it in which was a no no. I ended up taking all the bearings back out except the #1 and 5. Cam went right in so I put the bearings back in one at a time intil I found when I put #3 in the cam would not go all the way in. After I saw scratches on the back of the #3 cam bearing I saw where a piece of casting right next to the #3 bearing hole had laid over into the cam bearing hole and it was going in the front part of the bearing hole so that it stayed there when I drove the bearing in and it was raising the bearing shell just enough to cause the problem. I used a file and filed it off and ran a hone thru the cam bearing hole. Installed another bearing and all was fixed ! Ron
Last edited by 383man; 02/15/12 05:30 AM.
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Chassisman]
#1178653
02/15/12 11:25 AM
02/15/12 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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Quote:
I've NEVER had this happen in 30 years of building motors.
i've never had one (bb mopar) that didn't require some attention here. always do the cam bearing one at a time so you can find the offending one(s). you can use a cam core or bearing scraper AKA razor blade to dress the tight spots
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: jamesc]
#1178654
02/15/12 11:48 AM
02/15/12 11:48 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I've NEVER had this happen in 30 years of building motors.
i've never had one (bb mopar) that didn't require some attention here. always do the cam bearing one at a time so you can find the offending one(s). you can use a cam core or bearing scraper AKA razor blade to dress the tight spots
Exactly...
It was my understanding that the bores on production blocks were all over the place and the factory actually had a fixture that final honed the bearings true. I build a lot of Chrysler big blocks and its very rare that I dont have some issues with cam fitment. Not a big deal to get it straightened out, but it always needs attention.
MB
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1178656
02/15/12 04:53 PM
02/15/12 04:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,749
Chowchilla,ca
Chassisman
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,749
Chowchilla,ca
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I've NEVER had this happen in 30 years of building motors.
i've never had one (bb mopar) that didn't require some attention here. always do the cam bearing one at a time so you can find the offending one(s). you can use a cam core or bearing scraper AKA razor blade to dress the tight spots
Exactly...
It was my understanding that the bores on production blocks were all over the place and the factory actually had a fixture that final honed the bearings true. I build a lot of Chrysler big blocks and its very rare that I dont have some issues with cam fitment. Not a big deal to get it straightened out, but it always needs attention.
MB
 One out of four blocks will need work on the cam bearings, install them one at a time and then slide the cam in, fix as needed 
Then I've been lucky enough to find the other 75% of them....lol
He hand massaged them last night.....so they're all good now...
Thanks everyone.
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Chassisman]
#1178657
02/15/12 10:44 PM
02/15/12 10:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I had never had this trouble until recently with a 360 magnum.
I found the tight spot was next to the oil hole on each journal. I removed all the bearings. Then put a new set in the freezer overnight to shrink them down while cold. Then they pressed in very easily. After the acclimated to the block. The cam slid in just fine.
My assumption was when you beat the bearing in the cam bore with a press fit the bearing swells up. It also scrapes hard across the oil hole and scuffs bearing material pushing the bearing ID out of shape at the oil hole.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: blue_stocker]
#1178660
02/15/12 11:40 PM
02/15/12 11:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Unfortunatelt we are blessed with horrible cam tunnels. As already discussed we have: 1) cam tunnel misalignment 2) bore sizing all over the place 3) thin bearing walls, which distort much easier than say a BBC. You rarely ever have to touch a BBC bearing, as the " cage" is much much more rigid. As mentioned, the thinner BBM bearing shells distort way easier. Its often the number 4 bearing. Inexperienced installers often seem to crush the #1 and #5 bearings worse as well. If you use an expandable type installer instead of the solid untis, you need to keep the rubber sleeves good and snug so the installation ring isnt bouncing, with really adds to the bearing shell distortion. Just more of the fun... 
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1178661
02/16/12 12:36 AM
02/16/12 12:36 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Unfortunatelt we are blessed with horrible cam tunnels. As already discussed we have:
1) cam tunnel misalignment
2) bore sizing all over the place
3) thin bearing walls, which distort much easier than say a BBC. You rarely ever have to touch a BBC bearing, as the " cage" is much much more rigid. As mentioned, the thinner BBM bearing shells distort way easier.
Its often the number 4 bearing. Inexperienced installers often seem to crush the #1 and #5 bearings worse as well. If you use an expandable type installer instead of the solid untis, you need to keep the rubber sleeves good and snug so the installation ring isnt bouncing, with really adds to the bearing shell distortion.
Just more of the fun...
I do a lot of small Fords too....Never had any problem with those as well...Just part of the deal.
MB
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Leon441]
#1178662
02/16/12 01:27 AM
02/16/12 01:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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I have a 72 RB that Ive had for over 20 years. This block has major issues with the cam bearings... First time I pulled a cam out of it, one of the bearings was spun. Had a guy come to my house and put a new bearing in. Tried to put the cam in and had to hammer the cam back in. Didnt know (or care) any better and fired her up. She turned over really slow till it lit. I guess the bearing clearanced itself pretty quickly. Never had another issue with that cam. Rebuilt that motor a few years later. Sort of forgot about the cam bearing problem...  Short block all assembled, try to put cam in block. No fittie. Buddy who was helpin me hammered the cam in and ran a bolt down in the front of the cam. Chucked the bolt in a drill, trying to spin the cam. Worked for a few minutes till the bolt broke in cam. Ended up making a ream with a factory MW cam he had lying around. Reamed all of the bearings and hoped for the best. Never had an issue and the bearings all looked good a few years down the road. Same block 10 years later. I paid a machine shop to "correct" the block. Machinist told me he had the proper tooling to correct the block. Pick up block and machinist scrapped the bearings to fit the cam.  Still no issues, so whatever.. 78 RB block in my car at the moment had 2 tight bearings. Reamed them also. No issues with it. 400 block that is going together at the moment has one bearing .001 tight. Gonna hit the cam journal a .001 and call it good.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Chassisman]
#1178663
02/16/12 02:06 AM
02/16/12 02:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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i made a special tool holder that bores the center 3 cam bores in line with the front and rear cam bores one at a time. maybe i ought to mass produce it for what's left of the BB mopars out there. i can tell you that a lot of the problem is sharp edges on the front face of the bores catch the bearing back and gouges the bearings going in, consequently distorting them during installation. aside from that, the cutters in the bar seldom take more than a few tenths from the bores themselves, but it's enough so i seldom ever have to touch a bearing after installion and the cams spin freely with two fingers.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Cam bearing install issue
[Re: Performance Only]
#1178664
02/16/12 09:21 PM
02/16/12 09:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
i made a special tool holder that bores the center 3 cam bores in line with the front and rear cam bores one at a time. maybe i ought to mass produce it for what's left of the BB mopars out there. i can tell you that a lot of the problem is sharp edges on the front face of the bores catch the bearing back and gouges the bearings going in, consequently distorting them during installation. aside from that, the cutters in the bar seldom take more than a few tenths from the bores themselves, but it's enough so i seldom ever have to touch a bearing after installion and the cams spin freely with two fingers.
Dan,are you removing a few tenths from the block bores or the bearing in the bores itself or just the face of the block bores.Tenths seem to be alot, if you remove a few tenths from the block bores,how do you retain the bearing?Maybe I'am misunderstanding 
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