...well I'm finally buildin' me a Jeep

This build has been going on since about Nov 23, and I'm catching it up through this morning (16 Feb 24)...

Nov 23. I've been loosely scanning the local ads for a derelict JKU with a blown engine or something which would actually make it affordable, and honestly wasn't expecting to find the right fit...but lo and behold I brought home this 2014 JKU Thanksgiving Eve 23 - it's bone stock, right-hand drive (mail route), and other than a hurt engine 100% complete. So...I'm pulling the plug on my big bad Dakota build...and taking all of its juicy bits of goodness and dropping all of it under this Jeep.

The plan. Magnum 360, tons, 40s. Gonna gut/sell/discard the Jeep's driveline and all electronics, drop in all of the driveline from the Dakota, and install a fresh yet primitive Painless Performance nervous system with stand-alone toggles and switches - except for the Holley Sniper there won't be a computer in sight. It all goes in - Magnum 360 with Sniper EFI, 46rh trans, Atlas 4-speed, D60 front, 14b rear - all of which have been tested and proven. Both axles are getting Artec trusses and the front will get a full-hydro kit with a 2.75x8 double ended ram, and Artec high-steer arms. A 4.5" long arm lift from Iron Rock Off Road will smooth out the bumps, and a full compliment of HD armor will protect the body...and wow - I don't have to fabricate 'everything' - I can buy every single bit of it - what a nice change. It'll be fully highway friendly, and a beast off-road, with lots of strategic armor to protect pretty much everyone and everything. It'll be about 10 times stronger than my Dad's M-38, so I'm calling it the M-380. Start jammin' on it Jan 24.

Here's what my daughter n me brought home Thanksgiving Eve 23; Other than the dash I'll keep the majority of the interior, but otherwise I'm gonna pretty much rip everything out of this -


...drop in all of the awesome 5.9 Magnum/46RH/Atlas4/1-tons/40" driveline from this -


...incorporate lots of the charm and dirt-simple simplicity of this -


...build it to feel and perform pretty much like this -


...and after brushing on Air Force Strata Blue oil-based paint it'll look more or less like this -


...and in the end it'll nicely compliment the wife's 08 JKU -


And like I said I'm going to completely remove the OE Jeep electrical harness and install a stand-alone, computer-less, dirt simple, primitive, and effective switch-to-component harness, mod the firewall and wiper system for left-hand drive, drop a nice aftermarket 4.5" suspension kit under it, weld on the Artec hardware to utilize the D60/14b, go full-hydro, and rock on.

In the meantime, if'n anyone is looking for a heavily upgraded 4-door Dakota with a legit SAS, on leaf springs, engineered for a Magnum v8 and 46RH trans, cocked and ready for your driveline of choice, including a fully reinforced frame, front/rear rock bumpers and sliders, full interior...lemme know.

- Sam

...Black Friday was particularly fun last year and parts have been piling up - the Iron Rock Off Road Pro 4.5" Long Arm kit arrived, and wow is this nice stuff. The lowers are 2" x 5/16 wall DOM, with rebuildable ends at the axle - the frame ends are rubber. A bunch of Artec hardware is getting glued onto the axles now.

The lowers are big n beefy -










I've also grabbed front and rear Poison Spyder Brawler bumpers and fenders used from Facebook, and Brawler rock sliders new from Poison Spyder via Super Shops. Painless Performance 21 circuit wiring harness and a hose of other items are just waiting their turn in multiple boxes.

I knew I would totally love the 'modular' aspect of the Wranglers...and I wasn't wrong. It's a Jeep thing, and I've always understood

Removed the doors...and I don't think they have ever been removed before. This Jeep is really 'fresh'. Also picked up a set of used JCR aluminum half doors (thanks again FB) including the uppers, and they fit just like they're supposed to 👍

...body off the Dak - pulling the driveline





LOVE this Harbor Freight crane -

All of the driveline came out easy enough from under the Dakota's frame, the 'roller' axles are bolted under, the cab is back on, and the Dak is back out of the shop looking for a new home...













...interesting view of the frame with the rock sliders and all - this whole thing is for sale, and any 4-door Dakota cab will bolt right onto it



- Sam

...swapped in a nice 'truck' Comp Cam, and since day-1 I've had what I consider excessive 'chatter' from the engine, and long story short the consensus was 'lifters'. I'd been calling around and getting several additional opinions from places including Hughes Engines and Scram Speed, and with a lot of unawesome lifters out there I had to dig for the good stuff, and that led me to Top Line Automotive/Hy-Lift Johnson. I was going to order a set of #5006 lifters from Hughes (who sells Hy-Lift Johnson lifters) but they had two versions, including a high-performance 'quiet' slow-leak down set #5006S, but they first recommended I call HLJ to ask about the differences and how well they would work for my 'truck' application. So I called HLJ, and they informed me that there is another lifter they sell - same as the 5006S but with an additional feature - an additional oil feed port direct onto the roller bearings (of which I thought 'yes, please'). These HLJ lifters, #2269SE, are direct replacement lifters for the Viper V10, which very conveniently also happen to be direct-fit lifters for the Magnum V6 and V8 engines...and yah I nicely asked them to put a set of 'em in a box for me . Granted, my 360 won't be turning the rpms of a Viper V10...but it will be spending a lot of time at very low rpms when rock crawling, and having that extra oil port lubricating the rollers can't never ever be a bad thing, like ever. They also offered a military discount and I got them for $34 each, which for anyone shopping around is really not bad at all. USA made, good reputation, and all the features of slow leak-down, and direct oiling - win-win.

One thing about Magnum engines is...it's almost impossible to get the lifters out unless you pull the heads (more specifically the head gaskets). There's a portion of the head gasket with alignment holes in it for the pushrods, which unfortunately makes it nearly impossible to get the lifters out - the lifters need about 1/8-1/4" more distance before they'll come out, and forcing them past the gasket would probably scratch the lifters - for sure would scratch the spendy brand-new ones trying to cram them in the bores....but I employed a very simple solution - got a fresh set of tin snips, cut away the head gasket material, and they pop right out! My new V10 lifters dropped right in 👍

This is the area of interference -




Cut this section of the head gasket out - problem solved, and no need to pull the heads 👍 . Yah you lose the alignment holes, but who really needs those anyway...

after dropping in the new V10 lifters I discovered the alleged cause of my 'chattery' engine - WAY too much lifter preload. I used digital calipers to measure how far the lifter plunger recesses into the lifter as the valvetrain is tightened up - from 'no slack' to 'tight' there appears to be about...wait for it... 167 thou (.167) of preload...which is about .137 too much (that's just over 1/8"). This alone is likely the reason the lifters have been so noisy, and only through the simple task of replacing the lifters did I discover it. I have an adjustable pushrod coming along with a set of 8" calipers, and I'll soon know exactly what length of pushrods I need - my prediction is 6.800 (6.941 is what was in it). The spec for these lifters is .030, so yah it was way off.

I 'restored' the engine - disassembled down to the rear main seal, and reassembled with fresh gaskets n seals, etc. In the process, the heads were inspected and surfaced - but I do not know by how much (maybe a lot more than I'd originally thought). Fel-Pro #519 HD head gaskets were used, but I've no idea how much thicker or thinner they are compared to OE.

A new cam (Comp Cams) was installed, which presumably had a lower base circle. The rockers and all are stock. Because of the cam swap, and because of the noisy chatter, on a professional recommendation I opted for .036-longer pushrods, which ultimately were even that much more too long.

It is possible the stock pushrods were already too long to begin with - even before I opened up the engine. Shaving the heads naturally brought them closer to the cam...but not normally by enough to make the pushrods too short - it's possible mine were milled more than usual - l'll never know. The fact is the pushrods appeared to be a lot longer than they're supposed to be.

Meanwhile the axles back from the blaster and ready for the trusses. The Artec truss kits are very impressive jigsaw puzzles - the attention to detail and fitment are the best I've ever seen 👍









And I'm using 'Steel-It' to pre-paint underneath the hardware in advance of welding it all up - it's a weldable HD stainless steel-infused polyurethane paint - neat stuff, and reeeeeally bad for you -

I'd been pondering how to mount my full-hydro ram for a very long time, and my solution came down to most pros outnumbering the least cons, and that meant mounting it 'straight-on'. I'm running my ram completely inline with the TREs, and the main reasons come down to this - when I'm wheeling the majority of my bonks and bangs to the front end are when the wheels are steered straight - not at max clock, so, I'm mounting my ram so that the stress of those impacts will transfer 'through' the ram and not 'against' it (the seals, mounts), etc. Any impacts to the tires will transfer straight through the TREs and ramrod right to the other end, and not at an angle which would hammer on the ram seals and mounts...at least that's how I figured it.

Plus, at max clock the outer knuckle does indeed turn less than the inner, so my street manners should should be...well pretty much about as good as possible. Tire scrub really isn't a major factor, but I wanted to prevent it as much as possible, and off road I think the impact-resistant nature of mounting the ram this way in my mind far surpasses having the ramrod in-line with the TRE at max clock, which until very recently was my plan.

Plus, there is more room to access the diff cover because the ram and linkage is mounted a little further away, bonus. Is it perfect, no, but it is good enough. Here's a schematic for how I did it -





To help me understand the nature of the linkage...I employed some of my favorite toys and built a scale model of my setup - when I saw how it was reacting I mocked up the real linkage the same way, and sure enough it was accurate. Lego's rule 😎

Think I have the pushrod mystery solved. My well-calculated eyeball math indicated a 6.800" pushrod would do the trick...and I think I was right. Got a pushrod checker (Speedmaster 401.1001 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDM-PCE401-1001) and at zero lash my pushrods measured out between 6.759-6.763 , which with an additional .037-.041 will equal 6.800, and I am near certain that is within the preload spec for these magnum lifters (they said .030, and that was essentially an 'average'), and is also well below .075 preload which contacts the lifter snap ring clips. Soon as I get the e-mail back from the Top Line tech folks to confirm my math I'll be ordering a nice simple set of Comp Cams #7632-16 6.800 pushrods (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7632-1), which should make my valvetrain a lot happier...and hopefully a lot quieter too.

Meanwhile, this morning (16 Feb 24) I got the front diff housing and most of the Artec truss kit glued together - definitely not my best looking work, but it's done, and done is good. On hindsight I think I would have run .035 instead of the .030 - I really had to crank up the wire speed to keep up with the heat, and I think .035 would have helped with that. But, it's done, and I didn't find any cracks, so now it's on to do the rear truss, and the last bits of the suspension brackets and such. Good day 👍







And with that posted this thread is up-to-date. More to follow

- Sam

alright - a week ago I thought I had the pushrod mystery solved.

First...is appears the problem the whole time was...wait for it...pushrods too long. The new V10 lifters went in just fine, but when I installed the valvetrain I noticed something very not awesome - the pushrods were 'contacting' the snap rings at the top of the lifters - the preload was so deep that the angle of the pushrods into the lifters was so far in that they contact the snap rings - even bent in a couple of the tabs (with the snap rings facing up - a pure coincidence - I'd never have noticed it if the horse shoe hadn't just happened to be facing up).


Well that's not awesome, so I contacted Dave at Top Line (and sent a couple pics of the 'contact'), and he and his tech folks indicated that there was way way too much preload. So, I put a fresh battery in my dial calipers and did my best to measure it, and if I measured correctly or even close to correctly...my lifter preload is .167 ...and my research indicates it's supposed to be in the .030 range, so it's about .137 too much preload - that over 1/8" too long.

As I understand, lifter preload is the distance the push rod socket depresses into the internal lifter bore before the rocker arm gets tight (pic below).


This is how I measured that distance: I started the rocker arm bolt, threaded it in until there was no slack between the pushrod and the lifter socket, and then measured how far the pushrod/socket 'travelled' before the rocker bolt got tight - it went .167 , which as I'm seeing is a whole lot.



My current pushrods measured out at 6.941 (which are the new rods that are .036 longer than stock (6.905 I think is the OE length)), which with the new Comp cam (and presumed lower base circle) I installed because we thought the rods would be too short. Apparently that was not the case, and was apparently an overcorrection. The original rods were 6.905, but, with .167 preload and a target of .030, I need to get rods that are .137 shorter, or 6.804.

I hoped my calculated eyeball math indicated a 6.800" pushrod would do the trick...and I think I was right. Got a pushrod checker (Speedmaster 401.1001 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDM-PCE401-1001), and at zero lash on a couple different holes the checker measured out between 6.759-6.763 , which with an additional .037-.041 will equal 6.800, and I am near certain that is within the preload spec for these magnum lifters (they said .030, and that was essentially an 'average'), and is also well below .075 preload which is how far the preload has to be for the pushrods to contact the snap ring clips. Soon as I get the e-mail back from the Top Line tech folks to confirm my math I'll be ordering a nice simple set of off-the-shelf-in-stock Comp Cams #7632-16 6.800 pushrods (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7632-1), which should make my valvetrain a lot happier...and hopefully a lot quieter too.

Bottom Line - get a pushrod checker and don't guess like I did - know.

Today's update:

well...the 'musical lifters' saga continues. It's always 'something' so I shouldn't be surprised...but this squarely falls into the 'well that's just strange' department...and I'm hoping it's a V10 vs V8 thing...

First off, I got the Comp Cams 6.800 pushrods, #7632 (289/302 Ford btw), and they installed just dandy - preload looks to be in the .030-.050 range, and in this hydraulic lifter equation I'm calling that 'good enough'.

But...(there's always a 'but'...)...I noticed there is a similar but less invasive 'interference' issue with the lifters' snap ring retainers and the pushrods...and I'll do my best to 'splain what I'm seeing, lifter functionality, and what I did.

BLUF: I'm using the V10 lifters, but with the V8 retainer clips - not the HD snap rings.

I am making the presumption that 'nothing should 'contact' anything else in the valve train equation. On the base circle everything is fine - the snap rings can rotate around in their grooves and no contact. But, with a lifter up on a cam lobe and the plunger all the way 'in' (engine not running/lifters 'bled down'/not filled with oil, etc), the angle is higher between the lifter and pushrod, and the snap ring cannot rotate all the way around without contacting the pushrod.

On a lobe, plunger all the way in, snap ring eyelets facing down - the arrow is where the interference happens when I rotate the snap rings around -


But rotate the snap ring up and around...and it runs smack into the pushrod...which can't be right...but again, these are Viper V10 lifters...


Now as I understand, with the engine running and the lifter(s) on the base circle, the lifters will fill with oil, filling the plunger area, and because the oil cannot bleed out quickly the resulting oil-filled lifter can overcome the valve spring pressure when ramping up, thus opening the valve, and repeats the process all the time (I don't really understand what the preload value is really for but one neuronal synapses at a time). But, when the engine is shut off...any lifter up on a lobe will initially hang the valve 'open'...and the lifter will very slowly lose oil prime within itself, allowing the valve spring to 'push' out the oil, allowing the valve to close all the way...which also pushes the plunger deeper into the lifter. If the snap rings end up with the eyelets facing 'down' then no problem, but, my concern is this - if a snap ring rotates in it's groove and ends up with the eyelets facing 'up', when the engine is shut off the pushrod will initially be fine...until the lifter bleeds down...and the pushrod will literally get wedged against the snap ring, like this -


In my mind that is simply unacceptable, and frankly I'm amazed the Mopar engineers allowed it to happen.

All I can figure is the Viper V10 engines (heads, rockers, valve train geometry, etc.) are different enough - something about the V10s have less of an angle difference between the centerline of the lifters and pushrods, that this is not an issue, but on a magnum V8, it obviously 'is'.

So - I removed the HD snap ring retainers and replaced them with the OE standard duty clips, and my assessment is that while the same interference issue can likely happen, the lighter retainer clips can flex a little and 'absorb' any intermittent interference issues that might happen, whereas the snap rings, cannot.

I don't know how else to do it, and I cannot see any way in which there can be 'zero interference'. It'd be great if there was a small ridge on the 'bottom' of the lifter snap ring groove to disable the snap rings from rotating in their grooves up and facing up - a 'stop' like that would prevent the snap rings from rotating more than a few degrees, but there isn't.

Out with the snap rings - didn't even unbolt everything - just popped 'em out and plyer'd 'em apart and into the trash -


...and installed the standard non-sexy clips -


Meantime, primed the engine and oil is soaking each rocker, so that's good -

Interesting. Do you think it is possible that the material around the eyelets on the snap rings adds enough weight that the eyelets are always resting at the bottom of the lifter, since they move freely in their groves?

The only contact is when the eyelets are at the top of the groove when the motor is not running, correct? As the lifter bleeds down, is it possible that the snap rings slide down around in the grooves so the eyelets are at the bottom every time the motor is shut down?

The next question would be: Does the snap ring actually rotate freely while the motor is running? If it actually pretty much stays where it was located once placed in the motor, and those snap rings are properly placed during assembly, what are the odds any actual damage occurs by any contact that may happen? Mopar has used this lifter arrangement for a very long time, it would seem unusual they would continue to use it if there was a problem with it.

it is entirely possible that my ignorance concerning this topic is showing up, but it sort of falls under the heading that if this has been a problem, I would have thought it would have been corrected by now.

I had that same thought, but I can't imagine the Mopar engineers use that as the stop gap from interference...but it surely is possible.



Correct - as best I can surmise is contact can only happen when 1) lifter is on a lobe, and 2) eyelets facing up, and 3) bleed-down allowing full plunger depth into the lifter



Dunno, but I do know that once everything is all assembled the snap rings/retainers are not even 'necessary' - the lifters don't need the snap rings/retainers for proper functionality - it's mostly to keep the lifters 'assembled' during packaging/shipping...and maybe for promotional considerations..."snap rings are way more awesomer" etc...



...oh mine too...but I am almost cursed with my attention to detail, and I know I have a very keen eye but it can't be that keen...

Plus...(and while I don't really think this is the source of the problem it's still a problem) - I just rechecked the pushrod length and zero lash = 6.764, plus .036 = 6.800, and I've been assuming my 6.8" pushrods were exactly 6.8", but I just measured 4 of them and they actually measure out to ~6.817-6.821....so my preload is apparently ~.057-.072.... - nice to know things aren't exactly as advertised . Melling sells a set of 6.792 rods...

Otherwise I'm at my wit's end. Nothing is that 'different' in this engine - no exotic voodoo or such. The only explanation is the rockers aren't the OE units and mine look just like OE units...good grief...

I'm going to return the Comp rods and try a set of Melling MPR-667 (6.792) - maybe they'll be the proper length...

the month-long axle weld-a-thon is complete

The Artec full-hydro mount isn't yet engineered to 'interface' with the Apex D60 truss, so that took a lot of time to trim the mount to mate up clean, and I made a top cover plate and internal bracing to reinforce the front edge from impacts -







once the ram is bled I'll rotate it back like this and install the cover plate for good -











rear 14b -



these mini-scalers are great at removing slag -

Also got the Artec high-steer arms installed, including bronze bushings and I cut small grooves into the adjuster plate to get just a little bit more grease in 'dere -







got this nifty luggage weigh scale to get 25 lbs of pull in the knuckles -



Now time to clean house, strip the Jeep, and bring it in

a'rite - the tub is gutted, the busted up windshield is out, and the body should be off real soon -





I'm going to use the OE Jeep fuel pump/sending unit, and to do that I'll need a simple way to 'access/maintain' the unit without having to either drop the tank or lift the body. I found where the sending unit is below the rear floor, and once I cut away the proper area to get the sending unit out I'll make a simple access panel to cover it up - right 'here' -





Will probably do similar access panels for the same reasons above the tranny and t-case.

Meanwhile, the valvetrain is all back together and the engine is buttoned up. Ditched the 'torque-to-yield' intake bolts and got some good ones, and used new washers to allow things to 'slide' on assembly -

got a second chain hoist for my crane, which made pulling the body a breeze.  Used the pressure washer to remove about an inch of dirt off the chassis, and started dissecting the driveline this morning

booyah - it 'fits' . Got the suspension bolted up, engine hovering in place, and this morning lowered the body back on, and everything fits good - better than expected - the radiator has a quarter inch to spare, and there's room to adjust the engine/driveline placement 👍 . The extra room not occupied by the shorter V6 enables the placement of a V8 quite nicely...almost like they expected V8's to be in there 🤔😊 .

Interesting factoid - being a RHD chassis, the steering gearbox bolts up on the p-side, which means the geometry is all backwards, meaning the trackbars bolt up opposite of a normal LHD chassis, and so I need to buzz off the OE track bar brackets and glue on aftermarket units, probably from Artec - still researching lengths and such.

So - now to fab up engine/trans mount plates, bolt 'em in place, and connect everything back up 👍

The IRO frame mounts are designed to 'bolt' on, but I'm welding mine for extra insurance (just tacked in place for now) -




so the Iron Rock 4.5" long arm kit doesn't actually come with a d-side front upper control arm or mount - it's designed as a 3-link setup via the p-side upper only, which is ok, but the Artec truss kit includes the 4th link mount on the truss......and so being me I asked the guys at IRO to include a second p-side upper mount and arm, cut apart the mount, and grafted it onto the d-side lower mount in the kit, and welded it up with the other mounts - a mirror image of the entire p-side mount. Then attached the second p-side upper arm, and now I have a fully functional 4-link front just like I wanted -


this is the unaltered p-side




engine hovering in place...getting a wag at where to put it -


as expected, because of the longer trans and t-case, this crossmember had to be cut away - I'll reconnect it somehow later -


two chain hoists = good 👍


body back on -


radiator in place...and it all clears -

...there's more room around the firewall than I thought there'd be - have to bolt up the magnum manifolds first but I'm thinking I'll move the engine back another half inch and up at least 1 inch for more suspension clearance, maybe 2 -









the OE radiator coolant reservoir is right smack in the way of the power steering pump and serpentine setup, so that'll have to be relocated, but so far it's the only thing causing any 'interference' issues...and that ain't bad -

Exhaust is tack'd in place. Starting with the OE Magnum manifolds, used most of the OE Jeep system plus a couple sections of 2" and 2.5" tubing here and there, rerouted to go around the relocated trans crossmember etc, and will final weld after the rest of the chassis is done. Fuel system plumbing is next, the brake lines, then the body goes on for mods.

Gonna be neat to hear how the Mag 360 sounds with the Jeeps' muffler and resonator - bet it sounds good. Anyway, progress.







trans crossmember was moved back about 5 inches to line up with the longer unit (was at the blue arrow, now at the orange), and now everything clears 'clean' -






...eliminated a 'flattened' area here I think originally for track bar clearance -




also...if this is just not the kind of reading material enjoyed in here just let me know - doesn't seem to be much interest and I won't mind saving the time to post it...