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Holley carburetor #2553585
09/23/18 12:39 PM
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Hi all
I have a Holley 3310 on a 440 with manual transmision.
I,m triying to adjust it with no many luck for the moment
If i turn the idle mixture screws all the way in,the engine not only does not die, but the revs goes up 300 rpm or so.

I squared the slots on primaries&secondaries to expose 0.030" or so.Also had a very high fuel bowl level but this has been corrected.

Rough idle fluctuating around 500 rpm or so.

What could be trouble?
Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Coke; 09/23/18 02:47 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2553618
09/23/18 01:50 PM
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vac leak/too lean


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Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2553684
09/23/18 04:28 PM
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Initial timing? Lots of times this is the culprit. Engine wants more timing at idle.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: RapidRobert] #2553692
09/23/18 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
vac leak/too lean


I built a smoke machine this summer and did several tests.I know that i have a vac.leak in the right side of the carb,seems from the throttle body gasket and maybe from some shaft.
I need to find another oil wich produces more smoke.

However,What i though is vac.leak makes the idle to go faster.This is very low,unless i open a vacuum port.

Last edited by Coke; 09/23/18 05:01 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: crackedback] #2553712
09/23/18 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By crackedback
Initial timing? Lots of times this is the culprit. Engine wants more timing at idle.


I have 12 deegrees initial.
Casually the vacuum can died today,but while has been working the trouble was the same.

However an engine should to idle well without the vac.advance engaged,shouldn,t it?

Last edited by Coke; 09/23/18 05:27 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2553741
09/23/18 05:58 PM
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Quote:
However an engine should to idle well without the vac.advance engaged,shouldn,t it?
Correct & it would not be engaged unless you have the timing setup for "manifold" as opposed to "ported" which it does not sound like you are. Do you have another carb handy you could toss on?


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Re: Holley carburetor [Re: RapidRobert] #2554559
09/25/18 04:26 PM
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I can't believe I'm the first to tell you this: Your symptoms are the classic indication that the power valve diaphragm is ruptured. There is only one on most 3310s and they are not expensive. You'll need a gasket kit for the float bowl and metering block gaskets. Get nonstick ones.

R.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2554663
09/25/18 06:58 PM
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Quote:
I have a Holley 3310

I squared the slots on primaries&secondaries to expose 0.030" or so.Also had a very high fuel bowl level but this has been corrected.

What could be trouble?
Thanks in advance.


Remove the carb and reset the secondary throttle blades so they are almost closed. A 3310 is a vacuum secondary carb and normal '2 corner' idle. The secondary transfer slots are high up in the bore. If they are showing .030 below the blade - it is way too far open. That would be both a vac leak and a source of fuel. laugh2

,030" on the primaries is a starting point. Anything from .020 to .040 should be OK. While the carb is off, write down the turns out on the screw so you'll know how much they are exposed when you are fiddling with it.

If you see fuel dripping out the boosters when you shut it off, the fuel levels in the bowls are still too high.
If not, then excess fuel at idle could be the bowl leaking through a ruptured PV diagrapm into the manifold.

Not sure what you're trying to do with burning oil and smoke but the rubber diaphrams may not have liked that.

Timing. Initial Timing should always be measured with the vacuum line capped or plugged regardless of whether its using ported or manifold. Thats true for stock or modified. 12*BTC at 500 rpm is good starting point for a stock or close to stock engine.

Buy an old copy of Urich and Fisher's Holley Carburetors and Manifolds Lots of good illustrations explanations in there and things will more sense. Almost as good is Urich's little Holley 4150/60 book. Both are available used for cheap.

I thought some of this sounded familiar. Some of this may be a repeat, but that's OK.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2287841

Last edited by Mattax; 09/25/18 07:13 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: dogdays] #2554708
09/25/18 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted By dogdays
I can't believe I'm the first to tell you this: Your symptoms are the classic indication that the power valve diaphragm is ruptured. There is only one on most 3310s and they are not expensive. You'll need a gasket kit for the float bowl and metering block gaskets. Get nonstick ones.

R.


It,s ok.
The engine takes some seconds to die if i use my thumb to cover the primaries bowl vent.
However i have removed it and checked with a mity- back and it closes at the range stamped in the valve.

Last edited by Coke; 09/25/18 08:45 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Mattax] #2554741
09/25/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By Mattax


Remove the carb and reset the secondary throttle blades so they are almost closed. A 3310 is a vacuum secondary carb and normal '2 corner' idle. The secondary transfer slots are high up in the bore. If they are showing .030 below the blade - it is way too far open. That would be both a vac leak and a source of fuel. laugh2

,030" on the primaries is a starting point. Anything from .020 to .040 should be OK. While the carb is off, write down the turns out on the screw so you'll know how much they are exposed when you are fiddling with it.


If you see fuel dripping out the boosters when you shut it off, the fuel levels in the bowls are still too high.
If not, then excess fuel at idle could be the bowl leaking through a ruptured PV diagrapm into the manifold.

Not sure what you're trying to do with burning oil and smoke but the rubber diaphrams may not have liked that.

Timing. Initial Timing should always be measured with the vacuum line capped or plugged regardless of whether its using ported or manifold. Thats true for stock or modified. 12*BTC at 500 rpm is good starting point for a stock or close to stock engine.

Buy an old copy of Urich and Fisher's Holley Carburetors and Manifolds Lots of good illustrations explanations in there and things will more sense. Almost as good is Urich's little Holley 4150/60 book. Both are available used for cheap.

I thought some of this sounded familiar. Some of this may be a repeat, but that's OK.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2287841



You have better memory than me..
I did recall a post about the vacuum advance.In the end we finished talking about the carbs...

I bought the Urich,s book in Amazon,one month ago or so.This is new ,4th edition.
The book is nice, but there are things that i don,t find 100% clear in it.
For example, they say that you can open the secondaries blades a bit,to increase the idle speed.In this manner you can keep correct slot exposure in the the primaries.
Also that they not must to be totally closed otherwhise this woukd cause to stick against their bores.
But they not say that 0.030 is too much exposure for the secondaries ,as you have stated.Actually, that is the info that i did need.
I will adjust sec. to almost closed to see if it goes better.The trouble is the engine does not breath enough air to keep the idle speed.
I have to open a vacuum port lika temporary
solution prior to start drilling the blades.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2554773
09/25/18 10:43 PM
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You can crack the secondary blades open a little bit if the engine needs more air at idle. But not nearly as much as you did.

When you have the carb off, you'll see the bottom of the secondary transfer slots is much higher up than with the primaries. You'll also see a small idle ports. They provide small contribution of fuel from the secondaries at idle.

Sorry if the 4th edition has more changes/confusion than I realized.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2554797
09/25/18 11:17 PM
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I forgot that your engine has the voodoo 60303 and lower compression.
Give it more initial timing. Experiment with 14 to 16* BTC. Idle speed 600 to 750 in neutral would be acceptable.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Mattax] #2555155
09/26/18 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Mattax
You can crack the secondary blades open a little bit if the engine needs more air at idle. But not nearly as much as you did.

When you have the carb off, you'll see the bottom of the secondary transfer slots is much higher up than with the primaries. You'll also see a small idle ports. They provide small contribution of fuel from the secondaries at idle.

Sorry if the 4th edition has more changes/confusion than I realized.


Don,t feel sorry.There is a lot of info out there that can result confusing.
There a lot of posts of people talking about to use the secondaries to set up the idle speed.
Even Holley,that put that small adjusting screw in a hidden place is now selling a piece or a kit wich makes easier or more confortable to "adjust" the secondaries.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Mattax] #2555165
09/26/18 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Mattax
I forgot that your engine has the voodoo 60303 and lower compression.
Give it more initial timing. Experiment with 14 to 16* BTC. Idle speed 600 to 750 in neutral would be acceptable.




Mattax, i did folow your indicattions (more or less)
I increased the timming to 17*,also removed the carb and adjusted the secondaries blades to almost closed position.I have used a 0.05 mm feeler gauge between the blade and the bore.

After installing the carb again,it has been difficult to start it at the beginnig,even i have fouled three spark plugs.
After replacing and cleaning the plugs,it has started to have a better idle,vacuum and rpms are stadier now,but it continues needing an extra air source for breathing at idle.
It has been neccesary to open the brake booster port(I have manual brakes right now,so i,m using it for the headlights covers).
I have recorded a video if you want to take it a look:
https://youtu.be/gdl8TiNS31M

About the cam,some users say that they are getting 12"at idle from these 60303.I suppouse they will have automatic transmissiions and higher idle speeds..


Last edited by Coke; 09/26/18 07:55 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2555190
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Turn the idle UP.

That should idle in the 750-850 range with 18 initial timing.

Do not set timing/idle according to any manual as it's not an OEM camshaft.

Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2555269
09/26/18 10:58 PM
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Quote:
About the cam,some users say that they are getting 12"at idle from these 60303.I suppouse they will have automatic transmissiions and higher idle speeds..
With a different combination of parts, maybe they do.

Quote:
I increased the timming to 17*,
That's fine.
Quote:
I have used a 0.05 mm feeler gauge between the blade and the bore.
You can experiment with a little more, but there may be other things first.

Quote:
it continues needing an extra air source for breathing at idle.

I watched the video. My observations:
a. I didn't see a PCV valve and hose. You should get one. In the meantime, drill a hole in a wood or metal plug that will fit in the PCV hose. The hose attaches to the large vacuum port on the rear of the baseplate. 3/8" Hose. The drill hole should be around .11 to 0.125" diameter. 1/8" is a common size here. Use your closest metric. It will get you going with the fixed air leak needed at idle.

b. Get it running at higher rpm, especially just after start. It will need more rpm and richer mixtures when the engine is cold. Once the engine is warm, then reduce rpm to whatever it will idle at. Then adjust idle mix, timing if needed and then you may be able to reduce idle speed a little more. If so, readjust idle mix again.

c. After doing above, then see if the primary throttle blades are open too much. If so, open the secondary a little more and repeat.


Once you have the hot idle running well, you can experiment with the choke and fast idle to work for better cold starts.
It shouldn't need too much choke, and it should pull further open quickly after start. Much patience is needed for getting a choke nice on a hot rod. In the meantime you can also leave it open and give the engine more rpm until warmed up.


Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Mattax] #2555507
09/27/18 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Mattax

I watched the video. My observations:
a. I didn't see a PCV valve and hose. You should get one. In the meantime, drill a hole in a wood or metal plug that will fit in the PCV hose. The hose attaches to the large vacuum port on the rear of the baseplate. 3/8" Hose. The drill hole should be around .11 to 0.125" diameter. 1/8" is a common size here. Use your closest metric. It will get you going with the fixed air leak needed at idle.





I have a pcv valve.I remove it when the air filter is out,cause the hose holds it in it's place.
Otherwise it is scapping from the grommet and falling between the headers everytime i,m working on the engine.



Not sure,but i think that i understand what you say about the plug reduction into the pcv hose.
I suppouse that this would need to change the air filter conecttion to a manifold vacuum?

Also i read a post wich talks something about to install a petcock on a manifold port.I think that some people were use this method rather than drilling the blades.

Would it work the same?

Thanks again.

Last edited by Coke; 09/27/18 01:47 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2555665
09/27/18 08:08 PM
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I don't see a PCV Valve there or a location for it in either valve cover.
The breather does two things.
1. It supplies positive air flow when the PCV valve is drawing on the crankcase and air in the engine.
2. It vents crankcase air when the PCV valve flow isn't enough.

This is called a closed crankcase ventilation system:


The large manifold port on the rear of the carb is typically used for the hose to the PCV valve. On Chrysler engines, the valve is usually located in the top of a valve cover.

The PCV valve is a variable restriction. It restricts more at higher vacuum. On a stock engine, idle is high vacuum. On your engine, vacuum looks to be around 10" Hg. Hopefully a little higher when you get things tuned in. So for now, I was suggesting you use a fixed restriction.

MVC-702F-Manifold-ports.jpg
3310-2 Manifold vac ports

Last edited by Mattax; 09/27/18 08:19 PM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Coke] #2555908
09/28/18 11:31 AM
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If you don't want to put another hole in the valve covers yet,

You can use replace the fill cap with one that has a grommet in the top for this purpose.
Look for 'twist in' or 'twist-lock' fill caps or breathers for PCV valve. Ford-Mercury was a common application here. Replacements come from many sources including Stant and Mr Gasket.
I don't know what's available in the EU.



Last edited by Mattax; 09/28/18 11:33 AM.
Re: Holley carburetor [Re: Mattax] #2555995
09/28/18 02:34 PM
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You are right,what i have is a breather,not a pcv.I was confusing them,sorry.
Some things start to making sense.To add a pcv valve could help in several ways.

I don,t search parts for american cars around here,except for spark plugs,oil or that kind of standard parts.
I use to order from r****uto or s**mit,or eb*y,it is easier ,faster,and most times even cheaper.




please give me the part number for the black one. Thanks.



Last edited by Coke; 09/28/18 04:41 PM.
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